Dear readers,
My Thai girlfriend got border control in Thailand to come to Belgium with a tourist visa. She told me she would bring cash to live on for 3 months. It turned out that she had more than € 10.000 in her pocket, which she promptly showed on first request if she had cash with her. She was arrested and imprisoned.
A lawyer had to be brought in by the family in a hurry, who briefly charged 5.000 euros for his services. As this was her first trip abroad, she was found innocent of money laundering, but had to pay a fine of € 4.000. Passport was withdrawn until fine was paid. In the meantime, this has been paid and she is told casually that the seized € 10.000 was deposited in the state treasury.
She must again appoint a lawyer to challenge this, who again asks € 2000,-! Can all this be correct? Apparently those lawyers have smelled money and keep asking. Moreover, she would get back all seized goods and funds, it turns out that this is not true at all.
The counselor only informed her about this this week what awaited her. First ask disproportionate fees, have fines paid and then briefly say that the money has been confiscated.
Do you have experience with this kind of business and what do we do best?
Thanks.
Regards,
Ronny
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I don't know the rules here.
But what happened here is not normal.
Don't have words for it.
From the Netherlands to Thailand, take cash with you, I know that.
If I bring more than 10000 euros, then first to customs.
Also proof of the bank with me, if they ask for it.
So far they have always asked.
Hans van Mourik
If I understand correctly, the check took place when leaving Thailand. The Thai regulations – see below – are quite restrictive. The amounts you mention for legal assistance are absurdly high. In the Netherlands you would pay a fine and get your money - unless it turns out to come from illegal sources - just back, it would be interesting to consult the Thai legislation on this point, but I have not (yet) been able to find it. I keep searching!
'Currency Export Regulations:
Local currency (Baht-THB): up to THB 50,000.- per person or THB 100,000.- per family holding one passport.
Foreign currencies: unlimited. However, amounts of foreign currency exceeding USD 20,000.- (or equivalent) must be declared to a Customs Officer upon departure by all travelers.'
It is not clear to me whether the arrest was in Thailand or Europe. Given all the amounts mentioned in euros, it could have been at Zaventem. But in Belgium I would expect, similar to the Netherlands, that first lawyer assistance is free. As stated in my file for Thais traveling to the Netherlands, in case you are stopped at the border: make sure that a picket lawyer shows up. After all, you have the right to a lawyer. The 'first aid lawyer' should therefore initially be free. So perhaps it concerns arrest when traveling out...
The other responses here under 'do you know her?' add little useful to it. At least not until questioner Ronny lets us know whether the incident took place here in Europe or over there in Thailand. In addition, not only does the average Thai tourist not travel with 10-20 thousand euros in cash for a holiday, neither does the average Dutch person (and Belgian?) I think. If Ronny lets us know that this incident took place in Thailand, we can always speculate or draw attention to the well-known stories of scammers (m/f) who never actually boarded the plane but do ask a sponsor - over and over again - to transfer money for one thing or another: new ticket, new passport, costs for the police and the judiciary, etc. I would only delve into that avenue with more details that indicate that something is really wrong here.
Assuming this is a real incident, consult a lawyer, one you feel you can trust. Call or email a few and see if their story and price tag sound good to you. If it plays in Thailand, it will be difficult to really assist from here.
The questioner reports that his girlfriend got border control in Thailand. Then it seems clear to me that it is unnecessary to play whether that check took place in Belgium.
That's right Daniel, I had read about that. That makes the whole scenario extremely suspicious. Traveling with many thousands of euros is strange, I don't see being stopped on the way out anytime soon, or a sniffing dog has to catch on, how did the visa procedure go, etc. What matters has she discussed with Ronny in advance? Especially now that traveling is so difficult and in a sincere relationship you always go through these things together. If there was no evidence anywhere (passport missing, money was cash, no emails or statements) then it comes down to a “trust me on my brown eyes, even though we have discussed and arranged less together so far than would normally be the case.” are". In short, more than one alarm bell goes off that something is not right here.
I think something isn't right here.
You may enter and exit $20.000 in value without declaring it. 10.000 euros is below that amount.
I think she couldn't prove how she got that money, yes if you can't prove that then you are laundering or criminal money and that is usually forfeited with a fine.
The amounts for a lawyer are quite normal. even 2000 euros is on the low side, that is before the entire procedure reaches a decision.
The USD 20.000 only applies to currencies other than the baht. See my response above.
Cornelius,
They were not Th Bths, but Euros,
And that's what Roel is talking about!
Sounds like civil forfeiture in the US. For more information, see the Wikipedia page on civil forfeiture (in the US). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States
Very annoying of course, to prevent this it is often recommended not to take large amounts of cash with you. The money could possibly be linked to a criminal activity without the person who has the money having to be charged. And the money itself, of course, does not hire a lawyer, the American dream. That is indeed easy to earn, the money goes to the state treasury with the corps receiving a reward, at least that is how it goes in some American states (often in consultation with federal services if the local corps are limited in this authority; they share the money fairly ).
Unfortunately, this is of no use to you now, but in the future, put the money in an account and take the card with you. Confiscate the account with not just money, after all, there is no suspicion that you are carrying a plastic card with you.
Ronny, every country has its own rules and the Thai rules, if I've searched properly, are as follows:
Allowed to import to Thailand and export from the country any number of Thai and foreign currency. However, when import and export is subject to compulsory Declaration any! foreign currency equivalent in excess of 20 thousand dollars. You don't have to pay any fees, you are only obligated to declare the amount to answer all the questions of the customs officer. The procedure Declaration in the Bangkok airport Suvarnabhumi is on the fourth floor and takes less than 15 minutes.
When you export Thai currency in the amount of 50,000 baht or more must also go through the procedure of declaring. However, the export of Thai currency in Laos, Myanmar, Cambodia, Malaysia and Vietnam amount not to exceed 500,000 baht.
Then your partner has brought more than 20 k USD with him; but hadn't you warned her about the EU rules that allow a maximum of 9.999 euros without a declaration? Then she could have declared everything properly before she checked in.
I don't know how the rules in Thailand are in case of violation, but 'lost' seems a bad thing if you are declared innocent. But yes, in Thailand I am not surprised anymore.
say I don't want to burst any dream or bubble hey,
but how well do you know that lady?
to me it seems more like a pity story that rattles on all sides, so that you would intervene in those costs and losses incurred…
She hasn't asked you for money by any chance?
Hey Ronnie,
It will not be the first case that Bert cites, where it is not the buffalo that is sick, but that money has been lost. Because she also lost her plane ticket, so she will need at least financial support.
But……….
10.000 Euro is for a Thai, 330.000 Baht and that is an incredible amount of money here in Thailand.
At a shop one earns 10.000 Baht and a teacher, about 15.000/20.000 Baht per month.
See the difference Ronny.
Pay attention if she asks for financial support, if she does, then cut it immediately, because then the whole story is one big lie and she will probably turn out to be one big black hole.
A teacher earns a minimum of 30.000 Baht per month.
https://adecco.co.th/salary-guide
It amazes me how many people are prejudiced
Yes ? Maybe we can congratulate the lady because she is the first in Thailand who was asked if she had money with her when she left the country. Says enough about her I think, in Thailand there are no checks when leaving the airport in Bangkok.
Secondly, every Thai with a little money has a stack of credit cards and bank cards with which they pay abroad and they take little cash with them, you should know for yourself because I have been involved in tourism and other travels for more than 25 years. Thais who go to Europe.
Dear Ronnie,
Have you already been to Thailand and have you already met this girlfriend here or do you only know her via internet chat? Must be a wealthy Thai friend who can afford to bring an amount of more than 10.000Eu for her own living expenses to visit you in Belgium. In most cases, it is the person receiving the visit who is responsible for the majority of the costs. I have a gut feeling that something is not right somewhere. At the time, in Belgium, I had several Thai people visit, but never one who brought so much money. More than 10.000Eu, that is serious capital for a Thai, which they usually don't just have in their pocket..... So either your story rattles or her story rattles. Looking forward to the continuation of this.
Weird in this story
that if it was in Thailand , the sum was previously $ 20 value , time reduced to $ 000 value , and now ?
So that 10€ does not count here, with the 000k$ rule you are at approximately 15 baht, at 450K$ = 000.bht, but only 20€ in the Netherlands, and especially at Schiphol, this is always asked at baggage control... ..but you will not go to jail for that if only this amount of money is withheld for inspection and assessment.
Now the question is how many euros she had with her because the poster only talks about “more than 10€”, 000€ is more, yes, but for example 10 euros is also 100 or more as a denominator (lol)
In Thai banknotes you are not even allowed to export more than 50 baht from Thailand (strange rule though)
How does she get more than 10.000€?
If she has exchanged Thai money for euros, she still has the receipt!
Seems to me…not a little…but pure scam to frame you and make you pay for everything,and even keep that 10.000€.for herself, do you have evidence from police..customs…have you known her for any length of time..am you have been to her home in Thailand…..don't fall for it, may even be network behind….make up before you start,don't get scammed…
I have not yet read that she has asked you for money now because all her money is gone and she needs more for the "legal" assistance. If so, this is a very sophisticated trick.
Have already heard and seen a lot of ways the Thai ladies tried to get money. But this is a new, creative and very handsome chapeau.
But I hope for your sake that I'm completely wrong. If she does want to “borrow” money to recover her confiscated assets, you have been warned.
Incidentally, 3 months in Belgium and more than Euro 10.000 with you, that's quite a bit, was it the intention that you would also support yourself?
Ronny, be careful not to get caught in a scam. The fact that you were not aware of her intention to travel with so much cash seems strange to me. I find it strange that someone has so much money there. There looms a bottomless pit. You can only get out of this in one piece by not helping.
My first question is, how long have you known this friend, and have you ever paid large amounts for her that are very questionable?
I think she heard a bell ringing somewhere with this 10.000 settlement, to make another financial move on you.
I think she never intended to leave Thailand with such an amount to visit you to pay for her stay here herself.
The story of this more than 10.000 euros and the utopian amount of a fictitious lawyer, together with her alleged incarceration, should make you feel sorry and pay everything back.
If my above suspicion is not correct, then my apologies, but it looks very much like it.
When asked whether she has an account from this lawyer, and an address with a telephone number, she will certainly respond in the negative.
I don't know how in love you are, but I would be very vigilant given her story, because you are certainly not the first to pay a lot of tuition.
Be careful what evidence she has presented
Or are you being praised?
If your girlfriend comes to you, you must still be able to demonstrate that you can 'maintain' her during the period that she stays.
Then why does she have € 10.000 in cash with her? ??
I also think it's a very strange story, especially since they confiscated her ticket, passport and money.
Still, do some research if I were you.
Succes
I've flown quite a bit around the world, but I've NEVER been asked when I leave a country if I have (an unusually large amount of) cash with me.
You often have to fill in a customs form on the plane that asks for contact money etc, but that is always just before you arrive in the country you are flying to - so never when you leave a country.
Also the story 'because this is her first trip abroad, she was found innocent' is completely wrong and really makes no sense.
What is the help she asks you for now?
Sann, NL TV is running a series about NL customs and you sometimes see them asking departing passengers for money at Schiphol. There are also money sniffer dogs that are trained to find money. Arriving passengers can also walk into such a trap. I've never had any problems with it, but it's possible.
In NL, the fine is 10% of the entire amount if you have more than 9.999 euros with you and have not declared this. As Hans van Mourik says, you must be able to provide evidence with the declaration.
I have been asked the question several times, at various border crossings in various places in the world. “If only I had it” I sometimes replied. In addition, when flying you often have the forms that you have to fill in - but that also happens when traveling out.
It says that she had MORE than 10.000 euros in her pocket !! All over Europe and probably also Thailand you MUST fill out a form if you bring MORE than 10.000 euros, even if it is 10.010 euros. About 10.000 euros, you will be asked how you can prove this (bank statement)
I am also curious how the visa application was made. When preparing the application together, her financial situation must have become clear. After all, a Thai who comes to the Netherlands and has accommodation with a person must show proof of this. Ronny will therefore be involved somewhere in the application by her. Even if we assume for the sake of convenience that this is a rich lady with a good job or even so wealthy that work is not necessary. The embassy still wants to see papers about her finances: bank book, employment contract, etc. Or did Ronny also sign a guarantee and only let him know after the Schengen visa was issued - or even only on the day of departure - that he would bring his own money? I wonder how much or little insight Ronny got.
If the answer is: no access/correspondence and we do not listen to the alarm bell that should go off, then the next question is: has a visa application been submitted at all? That is simple proof to provide, after all, the visa sticker must be in her passport... if it has been 'confiscated' (strange) then there must still be email traffic between her and VFS. The entire course of events for the planned trip to Europe already raises questions for me. So how did that go is my first question.
https://thethaidetective.com/en/ speak Dutch have a lot of experience
As Archie said, above 10000 euros you MUST declare this and you will probably receive a document, so that this is guaranteed upon your arrival. You may bring more, but MUST be made known, indicate. Some proof of the amount will certainly not hurt (MUST?).
If you don't, ALL your money CAN be confiscated, you will be lost and you will also receive a fine. Think is running globally.
Make sure you don't have any loose money (including other currencies) with you anywhere else, this will be added and you will have problems if you exceed 10000 euros.
I was asked once at Schiphol by an official (?) how much money I had with me. Just a man in civilian clothes wandering around at the entrance, who just approached me about it. Was actually a bit taken aback by the question, that I didn't even ask for ID. At least no tag seen on the man, too confused?
I answered his question and he did not check further.
Wouldn't have been a problem, since I was below the limit of 10000 euros.
I find it very bizarre that the poster of this post has not yet replied to any questions directed at him and there are several. Was this a run-up to a 'relief action' or is it out of honest shame that he tumbled into it? This system of problems at the airport is a very old system that was used by Russian ladies a long time ago. They needed money for the passport, the visa, the plane ticket…. and at the airport they were not allowed to leave because of some mistake in the documents somewhere…. so everything again with the necessary costs. I know a few who have tumbled into it. When everything was paid for a second time and the gentleman was at the airport, there was no one to be seen that he expected, but he was already 5000Eu poorer. What should we think of this now?
Dear All,
Haven't responded yet as I had my hands full reading all the responses. A lot indeed smells like a scam, if it weren't for the fact that we have just been communicating for 2 years and I visited her for 2019 weeks at the end of 3. Since she wants to take the step to emigrate to Belgium, the next logical step was for her to visit first. I would vouch for her ticket. Between some lockdowns she obtained a visa, I provided a charge document + all possible declarations, approved by the embassy. At the end of January she got her ticket at the airport itself (refuses online orders because she has already been scammed in the past - she says) but was informed that she had to be able to prove approximately €7000 in her possession, given the Corona situation. She collected this the following week and showed it in cash at the counter. No one told her not to take this in cash when traveling. So she made 10.000 of them, BUT NOT INDICATED!!! She showed them upon request, but the damage had already been done. Of course, I didn't know that she would take such a sum on board. She had only told me that she did not want to be financially dependent on me. She works as a stylist, I just sent money for the tickets. She also promptly forwarded the ticket to me. Is she scamming me, but then she would ask for more money, I fear? In the long run you become paranoia. What I cannot grasp are the disproportionate legal fees and fines. Why do you have to get a lawyer if you were found innocent - but guilty of not declaring such sums, but she paid a fine for that... Is Thailand that corrupt? The fees are xx months salary of an average Thai!
Ronny
Ronny, the limit in Thailand is 20k US dollars! Only then do you have to declare it on arrival or departure. If she had 10 k euros with her then something is wrong.
But let this be a lesson to others traveling with cash; always indicate so that you have a piece of paper with you. Or put it in a bank account and debit it elsewhere. It's even safer too.
Ronny, you are lucky that there are people in this forum who, after years of experience in Thailand, see that a disaster is unfolding here. Moreover, they like to protect a human from our own culture (you) from an enormously dramatic mistake.
My opinion is that you are falling victim to a scam. I estimate that chance at 99,5%. But you may be more convinced by this argument. Suppose it is not a scam, then you will still end up in situations where you are expected to pay for all kinds of financial losses.
Your girlfriend doesn't even have to specifically ask for your financial help. If she manages to hit the right chord with you, you will put your own head in the noose. And once your head is in there, it's almost impossible to get it out. One cost item after another will fall into your lap.
And yes Thailand is high on the list of most corrupt countries in the world. Northern Europe is somewhere at the bottom of that same list.