Reader Question: Can I Trust My Thai Girlfriend?
First of all I would like to compliment you on your fantastic website about Thailand. I read it daily and can't find such good information about Thailand anywhere on the internet.
Just took the plunge to email you with a question that occasionally gives me a headache. It's about my Thai girlfriend who I'm madly in love with.
Let me explain my situation. In June 2012 I went to Koh Samui with my mate for a holiday. We stayed in a resort in Chaweng beach right on the beach. After a week my back hurt and I was in quite a lot of pain. There are several massage parlors in the street behind our resort. I just went there to ask if they could have my back massage because I was stiff as a board. I was massaged well by a sweet Thai woman, she was my age.
It helped well and with a lot of painkillers I was still able to enjoy my holiday. I then went there more than twice a day to have my back massaged by the same sweet masseuse. We got to talking – she speaks poor English – and it soon became clear that we really liked each other and we laughed a lot. After a few days I asked if we could meet after her working hours and that happened. She has told me a lot about her life and she comes from a village in the Isan. She has a young son who is cared for by her mother and works on Koh Samui to earn a living. She is a beautiful woman with beautiful eyes and she is very sweet, I fell in love with her, but…
When I left for Bangkok with my buddy, I got into a conversation with a Dutchman named Wim, who has lived in Thailand for years and knows the country well. I told him my story about Kanya (that's her name) and he warned me. He said that all masseuses in Thailand also perform sexual acts for a fee and were comparable to prostitutes. He was very firm about that because they earn very little and get paid per massage.
Once back in the Netherlands, that keeps haunting in my head. I can't believe his story because she never made any moves and never performed sexual acts on me or made such suggestions during the massage. Not even when we already had something, because I still went to the massage parlor every day.
I want to go to Thailand again this summer for three weeks. She can get three weeks off and be with me. She then has no income so we have agreed that I will give it to her. I will not send her any further money, because I do not intend to. I have to work hard for my money so I expect her to do the same.
Ever since that Wim's story, the image haunts my mind that she is some kind of prostitute who also messes around with other men. I often call her from the Netherlands and she swears she doesn't. She says it's a neat massage parlor and if she does something to customers she will be fired immediately. I believe her, but sometimes I have doubts.
I would like to hear your opinion as a Thailand expert. Because if Wim is right, I don't want any more contact with her. But if not, want to see her again and have a nice holiday with her and maybe more.
You may also put my story on the website, but without my name and email address.
Thank you for your effort and best regards,
Gerben
(fictitious name)
Editors: the text has been edited by the editors.
Well Gerben, I think you're not the only one struggling with that question!
there are indeed women who do things for a fee that in NL. be defined as not decent, but you can't tar all Thai women with the same brush!
Are you sure that you really are in love, because the relationship is of course only very short.
Thai women, with their beauty, smile, and submissive attitude, are masters of making many a farang's heart run wild.
I don't think anyone can give you the answer unfortunately.
it is a feeling that you have to discover for yourself in a subsequent meeting(s)
Try not to be naive and try to think about the matter with two feelings.
I mean your heart, and your common sense.
on this site you will find many stories in this vein, and even there will not be an unequivocal answer to your question!
believe me, very good relationships have emerged from it, but unfortunately there are also stories of men who have fallen completely flat, due to the same experience, which did not end well.
Luckily I was lucky enough to have a good relationship, but….
there is still 9000 Km between you and of course you never know for sure.
my advice: go for it, but stay careful and let the signals you receive (good and bad) get through to you and judge for yourself.
good luck
Bart Hoevenaars
Hello Gerben
Thai women are generally very friendly, helpful and have an engaging smile, so you quickly get warm feelings for such a woman.
And as far as those sexual acts are concerned, not all women do it, but many do because it earns extra money, which is nice if you only earn a few hundred baht a day.
It is also true that lying is part of Thai culture and you never really know exactly what is going on.
If you go back to Thailand, you can go with this woman again, but don't fall blindly in love and keep the above in mind.
Before holidays you can have a great time, but before you go on go there quite a few times and give your ears and eyes a living and see what's going on around you.
Thai women also want money for their poor family, but watch out that they don't undress you. Stick to reasonable amounts and if she doesn't settle for that then you already know what time it is, then it's not about you.
I myself have been to Thailand 18 times and have looked around in all areas, including Isaan where many of the women come from.
The living conditions there are very poor and every baht is taken there, which explains why they are crazy about money.
Go to Thailand because it's a great country and enjoy everything, but don't get wrapped up.
Hi mr. X,
I just talked to the boss. She is also Thai, and I also met her there, she has been in the Netherlands for a year now, after having been here on a tourist visa a few times for 3 months.
My own first thought was to try to speak to many friends and possibly her parents myself, to get an idea, but meeting parents is something fairly definitive in Thailand and according to my girlfriend, with real scammers, the whole environment can lie along to get a fish. hit the hook, so forget about that. Some are really slick, with the entire family circle involved.
But of course it can be a good and sweet girl. Her idea was to call her when she finishes work and goes home (or does other things). If she works in a massage parlor, Sat 21.00-23.00 will be Thai time. Now, in the winter here with a 5 hour time difference, you can call nicely when you come from work here in the Netherlands (if you have a 9-17 job). Around 16.00:17.00 PM or XNUMX:XNUMX PM. Try to check that she is really done with work and then try to strike up some good conversations. If she often doesn't have time for you, or can't speak freely, that's the writing on the wall. Perhaps she is busy with “something else”. Try to elicit statements like; i miss you, i think of you, i want to be with you etc. If she is with another man it will be hard. Try to have some longer conversations.
If you decide to go there again, which I also did for four weeks together after the first meeting, you will find out in that time. You get to know each other better, and find out if she gets a lot of calls that you might not be able to place. I then rented a car and drove across the country with the two of us. After this I (half a year later) went again for another three weeks that we spent together before she came here twice on a tourist visa. Only then, when I had already met her family several times, did we make plans for the Netherlands. When she finally came here, we had known each other for 2,5 years. Don't forget that the entire circus (excluding the holidays, including MVV) has cost a small 10K, and nowadays the integration is no longer paid by the municipality.
The boss asks me to report before being careful. If it seems like money is more important than you, even if you tell them you're not rich, then that's a sign of the future. But your story seems balanced, and I hope it can be something fun for you! If you have any questions, you can always ask the editors for my email.
Good luck, mvg,
Dirk
Read the book Thai Sweeties by Charles Swietert. Or the book Lady of Isan, then your eyes will open..!
Dear Gerben,
Your girlfriend is obviously not a blank slate, otherwise she wouldn't have a son either.
And she must have messed around with other men.
It is apparently of decisive importance to you whether she ever performs sexual acts for payment.
That is difficult to assess. Suppose, as planned, you buy her out at the massage parlor for three weeks and celebrate with her. Experience shows that it will not remain with a goodnight kiss. After three weeks you go home and she goes back to work.
Has she now reached the – in your eyes pernicious – status of a prostitute?
No? And if you have given her a little something extra now and then?
Yes? And has she become so much worse for it now?
Actually, you should just forget about these kinds of questions and seize the day.
How much income compensation should you actually give her for those three weeks? Perhaps something can be deduced from that.
Difficult story. I'll explain why.
Masseuses don't earn much and, as you wrote, are paid per client. So she has no fixed income. Her expenses will continue. There is already a danger there.
You write that she is beautiful, other men will see that too. She is used to touching men. Sometimes these are naked (oil massage) and then the step is small.
Maybe she really doesn't want it. But what if she runs out of money and the customer offers her (a relatively large amount of) money for certain actions. Then the temptation can be great. Nobody finds out, right?
You don't want to give her money, so if she's in need, she can't come knocking on your door. And a Thai is often in need of money. The argument that she is fired is not so strong, she walks one Soi to another massage parlor and can start working there again.
I wouldn't dare put my hand in the fire that she doesn't do it. But look at it from a different angle. Even if you meet a Thai who works in an office, do you think she will wait for you for a year and then be strictly monogamous? She has her needs too. And even that nice office lady or cashier in Thailand may have a bar history, you just don't know.
What is the alternative? In the Netherlands there are also enough women who go with a guy for a nice night for a few drinks. Do you think those women are going to tell you what they have ever been up to or are still up to. And what about you. Are you dog loyal to your holiday sweetheart? What if you can go with a nice woman for a night?
Just go for it and try to find out if she's honest or not. Have a nice holiday with her and see how you really feel about her first.
Don't worry too much: what you don't know doesn't hurt.
Dear Gerben,
You can ask such a question and you should get an answer from the experienced Thailand travelers and Expats. I can already tell you that those opinions are all different. Everyone has experienced or experienced it differently. It's about what you're willing to give. You write that you have to work hard for your money. Who not. One works hard (just as an example) for 1500 Euros per month and the other for 4000.
Those who don't gamble will never win. The same applies to the state lottery.
The only advice I would give you is try to visit her family.
Take a good look at what's going on there. Who works and who sits with you all day because
food and drink is paid and very important how nice are her parents.
If you don't and don't meet her again, you will regret for the rest of your life that you didn't take that chance.
J. Jordan.
Moderator: It's not clear who you're responding to, so we won't post the response.
Dear Gerben, love cannot be rationalized. When you are madly in love you float on a pink cloud. All you can think about is her. A fantastic feeling, but also a situation in which you are particularly vulnerable. But isn't that what makes life so exciting? When you know everything in advance, it becomes boring.
I'd say go for it!
Read it anyway, because "going for it" with a Thai woman is very risky. At least if you don't want to be disappointed and want to keep money in your wallet yourself...
http://www.bol.com/nl/p/thaise-schatjes/1001004002820947/
en
http://www.bol.com/nl/p/lady-of-pattaya/1001004010203608/
@Ruud You can also go for it with your hand on your purse.
just let everything happen, and keep paying attention1
Which is hard when you're in love.
Being in love is being positively overwrought, and then you can't make the right decisions.
So every now and then step off that pink cloud and evaluate the matter properly.
At that stage I always thought, if it doesn't work out, then I've had a terribly beautiful adventure, with a slightly less beautiful ending!
Regards Bart Hoevenaars
I have a nice quote about that:
"Love is temporary madness that can be cured through marriage" Ambrose Bierce (1842 – 1914)
Indeed Kuhn Peter
but also the most expensive variant of the cures!
😉
This seems like a nice statement. Still, I don't quite like him. I would rather say “sexual love is temporary madness that can be cured through marriage”. True love can be strengthened within a marriage.
I also have more than enough experience with Thai. And from that I can deduce that it ALWAYS comes out that Thai women ALWAYS put their family first when things get "exciting" in a relationship. And then either drop a "farang" hard or try to undress completely (financially then...).
@Ruud: I will assume that you have a lot of experience with Thai ladies. However, that does not mean that your experiences give a representative picture of Thai women. Example: Suppose someone were to gather all his experiences around Walking Street, then that by no means gives a good picture of Thai women in general.
My experiences are NOT about a lady from that corner. Certainly not..! However, Gerbens's lady is apparently stunning, works in a massage parlor in a tourist resort and that comes pretty close to the ladies you are referring to.
So let's sort out the facts a bit and interpret them correctly. Of course, my experiences are not sacrosanct and simply one of the representations of many foreigners' experiences in Thailand. And from a Thai woman who has/had a respectable job as a civil servant at a large bank. Something different from Walking Street. But she and her family certainly had the pranks as in the books I mentioned.
Moderator: Last sentence removed. Such a value judgment is not appropriate.
Moderator: Your comment is no longer about the reader's question.
@Ruud; you have massage parlors and massage parlors in Thailand. I have a few friends who work in a massage parlor, who really don't perform sexual acts on customers. It is also strictly prohibited. But I also know girls who work in salons where it does happen.
If I may give Gerben some advice, I would say go for it, but keep your head up. And go visit her family with her, get to know her child too, because you will eventually get that too. She will ask you for a contribution and given the living conditions of many of these women (sometimes with 3 or 4 in a small room) that is not surprising. Maybe she can live a little better or send something extra to her family.
But stick to a normal amount, which you can easily miss yourself. If you give her too much she will live there and if you find it harder to miss it in some way she also has a problem. (less rent, less money for family)
In any case, I wish you a nice time with her (and her child) and hope that you have found your happiness in love. Enjoy it!!
@ Ruud I would advise Gerben to read Sjon Hauser's books, they will help you more than Thai cuties by Charles Schwietert.
Great tip @Dick..! Have read both of Sjon's books myself.
But @Gerben should definitely also read Michael Schemmann's book Lady of Isan. That book is now probably called Lady of Pattaya.
That book really shows how Thai women act and think about work, life, family matters and foreigners.
Don't know the book, but Stickman doesn't really like it: http://goo.gl/zaTJQ
Well, reading it yourself really gives the best picture. And above all, don't rely too much on the opinions of others (certainly not reviewers...).
@Ruud: I just read the review about this book. It turns out to be about a lady from the nightlife of Pattaya. You claim that this gives a good picture of how Thai ladies think about work, family, etc. If a foreigner wants to know more about Dutch women, would you advise them to read Mrs. Hollander's Happy Hooker?
You can also ask yourself, am I more Catholic than the Pope.
In other words, she would wonder if you can be trusted.??
And who can guarantee her that she is the only one for you.
And not in every town etc.
Dear Gerben,
It is indeed good to be aware of the dangers and take note of the mentality and tricks of some of the Thai ladies. However, don't be fooled by self-proclaimed Thailand connoisseurs that a masseuse here is by definition a prostitute. That is patently untrue. And there's no point in asking us whether your girlfriend engages in sexual acts or not. That is pure speculation. Unfortunately, her poor English can make communication difficult, but it is also a good sign that you are not dealing with a seasoned happy-end artist.
Reading the recommended reading can also form an overly negative image. For example, I don't see why reading Lady of Pattaya is so useful. Judging by Stickman's recent review, this is a lady from the nightlife of Pattaya. Your lady works in a resport on Samui. Quite a difference. The German is also incredibly naive, according to recent reports. If I'm interpreting your message correctly, she hasn't asked for any money from you yet and I certainly wouldn't put her on a par with the very worst category of Thai women. I think it's the most normal thing in the world for you to compensate her lost income when you come here. She just needs that.
My main point is that you have to show that you are serious. You have to understand her side of the story. Those masseuses spend more than half of the working hours (and probably also outside working hours) talking to each other and some of her friends and colleagues will have experience with farang in the field of relationships. Just as you read all kinds of negative stories here (whether right or wrong, it doesn't matter), she will also hear all kinds of negative stories (whether right or wrong) about farang. Just as distrust has arisen in you, so will she. She is in a vulnerable position as it is easy for a farang to have a holiday sweetheart here and many do. Thai masseuses who already have a child are usually looking for stability. So be aware that she can have a certain perception of the farang and that you will have to overcome that image. If you're thinking of making something serious out of this, you'll need to make that clear on your vacation. If you (due to distrust) adopt an attitude that you come here to have a good time with her without commitment, you will only reinforce her image of the farang.
I therefore advise you not only to have fun during your next holiday and to get to know each other better, but also to make it clear that you are made of the right stuff. Make it clear from the start what your financial limits are, because in that respect she may (probably?) have heard stories from other ladies about how rich 'we' are and how easily you can afford a new iPhone for her. The best way to ensure that you are not seen as a walking wallet is to indicate very directly that you are not Sinterklaas. I'm happy to pay this for you, not that. Point. For a farang it doesn't feel comfortable to talk about money matters in the early stages of a relationship, but Thais are much less familiar with this discretion, so don't be afraid to discuss it.
Despite your crush, try to observe and analyze her objectively. Also see what kind of ladies she hangs out with. Does she use her charms to manipulate you? Does she often talk about money, or her lack of it? Does she need money because half the family is sick, weak and nauseous? Does she tell small or big lies?
Finally, a true story that hopefully puts your heart under the belt. One of my best friends came to Thailand a few years ago and met a masseuse not far from Chawaeng. He, too, was plagued by mistrust and insecurity. It didn't matter much if he had left it at that. They are now married and live very happily together in the Netherlands. However, these kinds of stories with a happy ending sell less well than disastrous relationships ladies from Pattaya ...
Good luck with this adventure. Do not let them get to you. Not because of her and not because of all the negative stories.
Moderator: sentence modified, too generalizing.
Gerben, I trust my wife completely. Met her on a tour, alone in a bar, we hit it off right away. What I didn't know this bar had only been open for a day.
Wasn't looking for it, but cut my trip short and stayed there for the last 9 days. After we had eaten somewhere, she thought I was giving too much tip so I gave her my purse and said take care of it. She still does that. Later I went on holiday with her. Haven't paid anything in the meantime. I had to know for myself first, holiday love and whether my feelings for her are still the same. Married for almost 7 years now, with an account here, even though she can take what she needs, she has her own card, she has never abused it. She asks me first if it is possible. I just believe in being honest with each other, I sometimes have problems due to cultural differences, you will also get them, that is part of it, but for the rest I say, I wish I had gone there years earlier. So just trust your heart and keep thinking soberly and talk to each other a lot. Then you'll soon know whether she means it or not. GOOD LUCK man
Oh yes, the bar looked more like a canteen, but the story started the same.
My advice: go there again next summer. Hang out with her. If you want a serious follow-up, you can use the following trick: arrange someone who tries to 'seduce' her (who offers her an amount for a night after you have left).
Lesson 1 for every relationship is that communication between the two people involved is all that matters. Gossip and backbiting from third parties is of no importance and by definition has no form of evidence. I learned early in life to ask people who produce gossip and backbiting for proof and if they cannot provide it for the person in question, not to bother me with their nonsense.
You don't have to be naive either, but by continuing to communicate based on what the other person says, it turns out automatically when lies are involved. This just doesn't work if you want to hook up with a virgin in Thailand or anywhere else and you're a virgin yourself...
Enjoy your holiday in Thailand.
Hello, you just have to make your own decision and decide for yourself whether to go for it. Because here you get a lot of stories about women who are after money and put money first. Of course there are many who are like that. But that's up to you to find out. And that's really not that difficult. Try to make it clear to her from the beginning that you don't have a lot of money and that you have to work very hard for it. Don't pay for her family and don't even start because that will often be the end of the story.
I have been in a relationship with a nice Thai woman for a long time and I really like it and she does not undress me financially. Because she works herself and that is nice. . I never pay for the family and she never asks me for money for the family. That doesn't mean I never give her mother and father anything, but only if I want to. Not when asked. And whatever your problem, she would have provided paid sex in the past. Then that was before your time.
If you look at the living conditions of the average Thai, it is not very rosy and they have never been able to count on a social safety net here, like in the Netherlands. So just go for it, have a nice time with her and enjoy it and watch where things go and how she treats you. When she starts talking about money, gold, expensive clothes, you know what time it is and what the flag looks like.
But just pay attention and use your mind and your feeling and let common sense mumble. Good luck. and wisdom.
Oh Gerben, don't be so unbelieving! Don't talk to her. When you come back to Koh Samui, go without telling her and check it out for a few days
cat from the tree! I have recommended this recipe to several foreigners - who were just as in love with someone of whom there is really no second and who is not like all the others - and most of them were soon cured when they were confronted with "reality".
Dear Gerben,
I read all the responses here from the men with experience in Thailand. I am a woman who has been coming to Thailand for a long time and stays there several months a year. First of all, your feeling is your feeling! What strikes me about your feelings is the doubt. I think that's good. Stay clear and alert alongside the wonderful feeling of being in love. What strikes me as a down-to-earth Dutch woman is that the Farang quickly loses his heart to the beautiful Thai women. I understand that because everything in this beautiful country completes the picture. I want to give you two examples of the Thai woman; Farang falls in love, goes back to Thailand, supports the woman during the holiday and gives her something, the woman is willing and slowly takes over everything with the finances, this happens very subtly, she can get better prices, she obviously has more sense of Thai money and within a short time she literally has your wallet and makes the payments on the way out. And believe me, I see this happen regularly. She also knows the nice restaurants and the best shops and, according to her, has good connections. After the holiday with the Farang, we wave goodbye and some time later the new Farang arrives on our doorstep for a few weeks of holiday. In the meantime, contact with all farangs continues via email and telephone and some money comes in from here and there *-}}
You also have the Thai woman you meet who is very shy. A woman who already has a child but does not just go out with you because she is not used to that from her Thai culture. A woman who, despite being an adult and having a child, is not used to touching you in public because this is not common in Thai culture. A woman who is careful with the Farang because it does not have such a good reputation in Thai culture. A woman who does not pay for her because the Fam. that does not want and this well protected the daughter, sister. Thai culture does not consist of open touching and walking/kissing hand in hand. In Thai culture, the Thai woman is not submissive and humble, but she knows very well what she does or does not want within a relationship. The Thai woman is not used to a (Thai) man being monogamous.
These are two examples of Thai women and believe me, I know them both and I also understand that these beautiful women can turn the Farang's head. Keep looking beyond your nose because no matter how beautiful and sweet they are, they can literally and figuratively undress you.
The other is also possible, an intense relationship that can grow into something beautiful, but for which you have to put in a little more effort.
Maybe you could suggest to your new love that she spend 1 week all together during the XNUMX weeks together in Thailand and then just work the other XNUMX weeks and see each other after work and see how she reacts to you?
Good luck and do what you want with it
I just want to compliment you on a very good website, which I read every day for several years in a row.
I have had a very good relationship with a Thai massage therapist for 3 years now. Previously, she worked in a salon where a happy ending is strictly prohibited under penalty of dismissal. I met her there and she has already been to the Netherlands and Juli is coming to me again. She is a bit older than most ladies and I think that is the difference. She has never asked me for money but that does not mean that I have not given her anything. One from Isaan also works in the same salon and he has a completely different character. This is one you'll want to come back for every day. Beautiful, sweet and terribly kind. She shows her best side, but in the end it's only about the baths because when you go back home you have to contact her and she doesn't say anything. So I would say, go with your own feelings and let Most Dutch people don't fool you because all Thais are bad and whores. These people have often never been there and know nothing about the culture. In any case, I was very lucky
Dear Gerben,
I'm in pretty much the same situation as you right now. The only difference is that my girlfriend doesn't work in a bar or massage parlour, she has a phone shop in Bangkok.
Still, when you're that far apart, it's sometimes hard not to get suspicious.
Certainly if the lady in question has a beautiful appearance, she is of course also regularly pointed out and addressed by other men, Thai and farang. This may eventually lead to something behind your back, which is not conducive to your relationship!
I think the safest solution is to Skype, both in the morning and in the evening just before she goes to sleep. If you can do this with her every day without any problems, then you can almost be sure that no other men are involved. For me this has been a good reference in terms of confidence so far.
So Gerben, if you go back next summer and you absolutely want to give her a present, buy her a notebook and install skype on it. It can save you a lot of headaches!
Greetings,
Luc
I would like to join Maarten, be honest. I knew my girlfriend for 14 days went out to eat every day I thought it was too expensive so I said that. She never asked for money. I told her that I was very poor and she has been here for 10 months. She knows that I am poor, very poor, but she wants to stay with me. She only has one problem, I am 35 years older. She doesn't like that. I assume there are many good Thais. she is a hairdresser. I have known her for almost 3 years, she is now in Thailand for integration
Dear Gerben,
What nonsense! They really aren't all like that. I know someone who has been to the massage 100 times and has never noticed anything about all those alleged sexual services.
I really wouldn't worry!
Dinky
Hello gerben,
Truth and lies are like elastic in Thailand. You have to trust your own heart. My wife sometimes cheats in Thailand when I am in the Netherlands, but she claims that she loves me. Both are true. Sex is not a big thing, you can find it everywhere, but Love is special.
I think the second is more important than the first.
I think there are no certainties in Thailand, everything is so fluid. If you want to find certainties in advance, you become a control freak.
Enjoy being together and or
can trust her, only time will tell.
.
In short: no. Lots of white lies and ialouzie, half-truths plus gossip. Your own family always comes first. Farang is considered a running ATM. Be careful before entering into a serious relationship.
NB I have been married to a Thai for 16 years.
try to look at it from 2 sides, she must also be able to trust you. How many times will she have met someone who promised everything and then disappeared without a trace or walked around with someone else while sitting at work and waiting.
There are some tips, but for the rest go by your gut, you can hardly do otherwise.
If it's any consolation, it worked for me 14 years ago and still fun and happiness every day.
Rob ptsernerlok.
What you now say about how often the ladies (bar or massage) are not lied to by foreigners is indescribable... If, like me, you regularly go to Pattaya with my Thai wife... and you only talk to ladies, you hear nothing else:! than that the farang says a lot/promises but delivers almost nothing..Exceptions left
You'll have a hard time finding out! I have been in Thailand for 10 years and I hear many experiences from others. You always have a 50% chance that it is a decent woman. But I warn you about something else: the worst thing that can happen to you in Thailand is falling in love. That indeed makes you blind. What is very important is to set limits on financial assistance from the beginning. Once you go too far, it is difficult to go back without causing problems. If she knows from the beginning that you expect her to continue working for a living and not to spoil her too much, she will know that she has to choose: love or profit.
Another piece of advice: never get involved in her family problems. That's a cobweb that sooner or later you'll get caught in. So…..love yes, unconditional trust, no!
In my view, sincere love equals unconditional trust. You go for it 100% or not at all. In love with reservations (half-baked) I do not believe. Anyway, I am also a romantic and perhaps that is why I have been happily married to a Thai for 9 years.
So what. Many Thai women who marry foreigners have a history of prostitution. Does that make them bad? Certainly not! A minority remains in prostitution after marriage, usually because the husband also likes to get in on the action. You have personally experienced that no initiative is taken to link the massage to a “happy ending”. That is already a clear signal. You both click, wow, that's great! Give this friendly relationship a chance and who knows, maybe the flame will spread to each other and something beautiful will grow between you both.
Well… You can fall in love anywhere and in any culture… As the Thai often say, up-to-you!
Every realization involves an assessment and consideration on both sides, which is no different in NL.
If you go to a country like Thailand… Then it is good to realize that we as 'Westerners' still have a higher status, usually. Moreover, we are white (not meant to be racist, but that's the way it is) if you had been a Surinamese with a Dutch passport, the enthusiasm is already less.
Economic status is also important… After all, it is always attractive to have an economically stronger partner. That is so in NL but certainly in Thailand
The women who work in massage in Pattaya or Phuket do that for money, nothing wrong with that and if they can earn an extra 100 instead of 1000 baht, that is a lot of money for them. Does that make her a prostitute… Technically speaking… Yes… But what a prostitute a woman is, a human being, nothing wrong with that and as such I have no judgment on it. If a prostitute turns out to be your great love, your conditioning should not be the threshold
And several irons in the fire, well as a man you dream of that too and ultimately choose what you think is the best deal.
My experience with many trips through Isaan is that I like them there. and people lie everywhere in the Netherlands
So if she is nice, sweet, sometimes does something etc... It's about what you feel and if it's no problem for you that she becomes economically dependent on you, just do it
Enjoy it
What is security? as i see it this relationship is of a short period, you can pass
get certainties if you know the female longer, I always hear about the Isaan origin
ladies, of course there is some truth to that, and I am not sure myself, I have been with my wife for over 6 years now, she is alone a lot because I travel a lot, but I make
don't envy me what doesn't know what doesn't hurt, if I would hold on to that then I must
I stop, I trust her until proven otherwise, and don't let me get worked up by
stories, they are always there, stay alert, but time will tell,
Regards, Pascal
Gerben,
I don't know you or your girlfriend, but I do have a good relationship with a Thai ex-masseuse. What I have missed here so far is how bad do you think it would be if your girlfriend committed erotic acts in that massage parlour, but only out of need for money? How many men who respond here have (in the distant past) been seduced by eroticism during massages. I have to say that I do and my girlfriend knows that because I got to know her that way. Because after some time I was convinced that her love for me was real, I took away her money worries, helped her complete her studies and now she works at a large international company where she may earn a little less, but she never wants to go back. to a massage parlor and her family is proud of her. The critics here will say that I am gullible, but she trusts me and I trust her and we have been doing well for years now.
Dear Jan
I completely agree with you.
Gerben has a headache about the fact that his girlfriend may be performing sexual acts. And asks here on the blog if anyone knows him tell if he is.
No one can tell you that wall no one can be your girlfriend. So it's all guess work what you get to read
It is again mainly about money and how dangerous all those Thai ladies are. Gerben says if it turns out that she performs sexual acts
He immediately wants nothing to do with her. Well Gerben then he is
love a bit less deep if you let it appear here. Where your headache from
should have is that the woman you love so much might need to take care of her child and parents. Most women don't do it because they like it. But because they have no other way to get money. Think about that.
Maybe then you will respect her even more than you already do.
The first thing I did 40 years ago when I meet my current wife in Thailand
have done, she has been taken out of poverty. Yes that cost money I would have thought it bad if that had gone wrong yes. But only because I had lost someone I loved and not because of the money. You'll get over that.
Forget all those books that many say you should read here on the blog
Forget all those sneaky phone calls you have to make.
And put it out of your mind that if she unexpectedly has performed sexual acts that you don't want anything to do with her anymore.
That is very shortsighted.
Follow your heart. And for what it's worth to you. I have been married to a Thai for 38 years
I still love her just as much as I did then. And I didn't meet her at the supermarket
Sincerely
Dear Kees
I am new to this blog
I can only say that I support your vision 100%, you are passionate about what you give and that is a bad thing. But losing someone you care about isn't easy,
And through trial and error we all grew up.
Dear Gerben, it is only too true that the way especially women earn a living in Thailand is based on survival, the duty to take care of the parents when they have reached a respectable age rests mainly on the daughters, (here don't they have a safety net like in the Netherlands, read AOW or something like that) the parents don't give a fuck how they get the money for their old age, but I myself met my wife six years ago, who then worked as a chef in a restaurant in Bangkok, have been living with her in Pattaya for six years now and we are getting married this year, what I want to give you in your situation is, listen to your heart and your feeling for you maseuze, draw your own conclusions and I I certainly wouldn't mind…. that Wim…., Fare you well man, and make yourself and her happy.
Kind regards, Hans-ajax
Dear questioner “Gerben”
With a holiday at a resort you don't get to know 1.2.3 Thailand, but you do get to know a nice Thai lady, and there are !!! most certainly, but there is also a downside, and you can also get to know it, and in many cases that is what makes the front page again.
I could mention as many positive as negative situations, but isn't that also the case in the Netherlands?
Get to know the person, BUT ALSO THE COUNTRY, .... and you can / must give an interpretation to that yourself
But remember one thing…in Thailand they have companies and powers….but in Isaan they have Farangs…AND THIS IS AN ISAAN PROVERB
PS The train passes,…..you jump on it,…or not,……
I jumped on that train myself, and to this day I do not regret it for a moment, on the contrary.
Well, everyone's situation is different, so there is no general advice. Most could write a book about dealing with Thai women and the problems you encounter when dating a Thai woman. Even if you have a 'good' wife, that does not mean that you never have problems, the norms and values in Thailand are simply different and you will have to learn from each other what is acceptable.
A few things: A Thai lady may like you, but is certainly very aware in the beginning that there is a good chance that the farang will change her mind and will therefore probably not bet on 1 horse. Even if she smiles sweetly at you, it will take some time before that confidence is there on her part. It is therefore no exception that a Thai is now trying to connect with another farang or Thai. She is also looking for security and no matter how nice you are, 2 weeks is also very early for her.
More about the financial story. We all know here that you just get that when you start a relationship with a Thai. It is up to everyone to decide for themselves how far you go with this, and that often also depends on what you have to spend yourself. But that's how I look at it. If you are going to live together or get married, you just want to live together comfortably. Sharing income is therefore also part of this. Whether you go with a Dutch or a Thai, you have income differences everywhere only in the relationship with a Thai that are very extreme. My girlfriend also expects me to support her for the most part even though she works herself. I don't find that very strange in itself, if you earn above average in the Netherlands, then most of the income for a family also comes from you and you therefore effectively support your girlfriend. In other words, suppose you earn 10.000 euros per month, and your wife works part-time at a shop with an income of 500 euros per month. Then you don't tell her go to work if you want new shoes 🙂 Well and about sending money to the family. It's just how you look at it. At first I thought why would I. But then you also come back to the above story. If you make your girlfriend or wife happy, does it matter if she sends a few thousand baht to her family? A Dutch person wants an subscription at the gym or tennis or I don't know what. A Thai often wants to send money to the family, but needs less in many other areas. For example, my girlfriend prefers to buy boots on sale at Scapino for 15 euros as an expensive brand for 100 euros, but sending a little money to her family remains important to her. Nice leave it then? 🙂
Furthermore, I think Khun Peter's reaction is very strong. You have to be realistic with your expectations in this kind of relationship. If you do something with a young Thai woman and you are only in Thailand once a year, then you cannot expect her to wait for you for 11 months, she also has feelings.
Incidentally, it may be a neat massage parlor where she works, but that does not mean that they do not have other activities after work. Many ladies who do that work in, for example, Pattaya and work in a neat salon are sometimes out after working hours and if they then get a drink from a farang and later a proposal to stay the night for a fee, then they also go there on in.
I am not going to give extensive advice, but I will limit myself to an answer to your question.
In the tourist resorts you have massage parlors with and without a happy ending.
In those without a happy ending, it is forbidden by the owner.
The ladies love it. Violation of this rule will result in dismissal. And then you don't just come back to work. That is 1) due to the Thai gossip circuit 2) dismissal means a deep damage to honor.
I did experience that the ladies, who worked in a massage parlor without a happy ending, went to the karaoke bars on the weekends for some extra income.
Given your story, and your approach to sex, I would first delve into the Thai approach (Buddhist approach) to sex.
And the (still existing) differences between the different classes, although they are getting smaller.
Gerben,
What would you do if you had met a Dutch woman? Just proceed in the same way, I would say. Others can definitely help you with that. Unless they have personally met the lady in question and thus can have an idea about her. Everything else is good for leaf stuffing etc.
Good luck and trust your instincts!!!!
As an expat and person in Bangkok, I can give you a few advice based on good and bad experiences with Thai women:
1. enjoy being in love;
2. use your emotion but also your intuition and your mind;
3. check things if they seem unbelievable to you (sick fathers, children who are in hospital; ask which hospital and call the hospital!)
4. hire a Thai person YOU trust and who speaks English AND Thai;
5. realize that - if you really want something with a Thai woman and she with you - the road to be together (in the Netherlands or in Thailand) is long and difficult and that it requires a lot (endurance, love, trust, money );
6. Read good literature about Thai culture and empathize;
7. Doesn't find anything strange or strange, but realize that Thai culture is very DIFFERENT than the Dutch one.
8. Realize that if she comes to Nedferland she will have to adapt more and that if you want to live in Thailand, you will have to adapt more.
Good luck and luck,
chris
Remarkable, you let a story by one Wim take you all the way?!
If you are so insecure because of that story, you can have someone visit your sweetheart and find out if she is really as sweet as she says or if she is also not averse to some extra income.
My experience with Thai masseuses is that about 90% is willing to perform extra actions for extra money, from manual work to all the way. Especially in tourist areas like Chaweng Beach. In the 15 years that I have been in Thailand I have been massaged more than 1000 times. I also hope for your sake that she wasn't behind the Starbucks because that street is notorious.
I understand that you don't send her money, because I'm also Dutch. Almost all masseuses are looking for a man who does send money, because it is a matter of money. Money matters, age doesn't. Financial security for everything is the motto of almost all Thai!
yes, thailand gentlemen, beautiful country, beautiful women and a whole lot of things, habits that we westerners understand nothing but absolutely nothing about. I have only been here 26 years and I can assure you hand on heart that to this day I am always faced with new surprises related to the Thai "culture". so gerben there is no advice possible in any case. use your common sense and please do not go into all kinds of stories told by your new girlfriend because one thing is certain after 26 years of thailand: the average uneducated thai sees us as a wonderful bank where you can collect money for the rest of your life without taking any accountability for it.
I wish you a lot of succes
@Gerben:
Saying you don't have money or have to work hard for it is always better than showing off, but saying this every time isn't enough. We are rich and be honest; The Netherlands is in the top 12 richest countries per capita in the world.
In any case, you do not send money and you are suspicious, that is already a good start.
Here's my advice for what it's worth, I think it's very un-Dutch, but then I learned it from a Japanese.
One way to test how someone will treat you in the future is to observe how that person handles money and whether it's more about that than about you.
You can do this by donating a considerable amount to her, depending on what you want to lose. Yes, unfortunately, but believe me, later on you will find that the money has been well spent.
Indicate that the amount is intended as savings for your future and for extreme emergencies.
Preferably put it in a joint bank account and see what she does with it.
Online you can also remotely track any issuance pattern.
Ask what the withdrawn amount was for each time and write it down.
Afterwards you first know whether the person can handle money at all and / or can lie well.
For the more cunning types, you need enough knowledge to know whether it is a trick or really. You can find most “buffalo ill” tricks on forums and if not, you can ask questions about them as you do now.
If the money is still in the bank after 1 year, you have found a woman out of thousands.
Do not assume this, but it is very useful to know as soon as possible whether someone cannot handle money and / or can lie well, because such a person is also more willing to share the sheets with third parties.
They sometimes say that running a business means taking a conscious financial risk, but I think building a long-term relationship with a partner from a relatively poorer background is, too.
I have read all the comments again. I am now starting to believe that it is less risky
entails sending a rocket to the moon.
Then start a relationship with a Thai.
It is therefore to be hoped that Gerben has nerves of steel. Which I kind of doubt. Wand he suffers from headaches rather quickly. (:-)
Good luck Gerben
Greetings Kees
Thanks for your responses. Some are useful to me, others are not. I've just booked my vacation, so I'm taking the plunge. Thanks again.
I have been coming to Thailand for 60 years, the first time in 1957 as a 15 year old sailor.
In Thailand you are just an ATM buddy. You have to get used to it, but if you decide when and for whom you put that plastic card in the machine, you will have a life like a god in Thailand. And you have to be lucky just like me. the sweetest woman in the world. Ignore all prejudices and live your own life
Gerben.
If you want to take this step with your good mind, that's great... Everything you can do for her has already been taken for her. But the only tip is that I speak from my own experience, keep it short,, Don't act like I did to pretend to be a millionaire,, And then when the ATM starts to run out a little, then the tap with money again for the lady to turn back because that goes wrong, you spoil them and there is no way back. Keep it short that's all.
Moderator: Your comment is too generalizing and therefore hurtful to other readers.
Hi Gerben, I have a Thai girlfriend who I met in a massage parlor on Bangla Road Patong. Yeah, I don't know either, I never asked her. She is now here for the second time for 2 days. When she is in Thailand I transfer 90 Baht a month to her, so she can live well, because I don't want her to work anymore. In addition, I will transfer 20.000 Baht for her family. What is important to me is that she no longer works and will no longer do so. I don't want to worry about what happened before anymore. Things are going great between us.
I would say enjoy them, they are great women, but keep an eye out, you always have to do that, even in the Netherlands
Gr. Koge
I have to swallow such amounts, Koge. 'Keep paying attention' you write, but do you do that yourself? I absolutely refuse to send almost 3x the minimum wage monthly, plus another small 1.5x the minimum wage for the family………………
You should not look at the Thai minimum wage, but look at what you can spare yourself and what is acceptable for both.
Don't forget that the ladies in a massage parlor do those side activities because otherwise they won't make ends meet. 8000 Baht is almost impossible to get by as a Thai in a city like BKK or Pattaya. Rent has to be paid, some costs for electricity and water, mobile phone, you name it all. Maybe keep them 4000 or 5000 baht after the fixed costs, which means she has to live on 150-160 baht. She also has to pay for her women's things, make-up, toothpaste, sanitary towels, underwear, dresses, etc, etc. They have money left over to eat noodles twice a day and nothing else. Do you think a lady is waiting for that, sitting in her room all day with nothing, 2 times a plate of noodles a day and the occasional phone call from you? Would she be better off looking for a regular job?
So if you try to fob her off with 5000 or 8000 baht, there is a very good chance that she will not stop her side activities. The fact that she no longer works at a massage doesn't mean she doesn't do anything anymore, she often still has a file of private clients in her phone.
Settling for 8000 baht from a boyfriend can also be a bad sign. 4 x 8000 baht = 32.000 baht and that is also a nice salary if you know what I mean 😉
And in terms of work. My girlfriend still works in the office of an export company. Financially that is not even necessary, but I do like being alone during the day, waking up with coffee and reading the news instead of my girlfriend who immediately wants everything 🙂 Furthermore, the 10.000 baht that she earns herself is something that is her own. You always have to deal with the story of family, etc. So having dinner with them every now and then and then paying for it is part of the deal, I don't think it's that bad. But if she wants to get food for her sister and presents for her son 3 times a week, that is up to her, but it comes from her own wallet. Furthermore, it gives her some social status and interaction, if she sits at home alone she will eventually get bored. And that is not conducive to the situation.
Dear,
Follow your heart with your eyes open! I've been the happiest man in the world for 3 years now! My Thai wife is now taking a nursing course. She is 46 years old and a model of willpower. She has therefore followed various Dutch courses in order to really integrate into our society. We met and got to know each other better over the internet. If I hadn't followed my heart and resisted all those who, however well-intentioned, wanted to protect me from an unhappy life, I wouldn't be able to tell you about my wonderful experiences! I wish you the best! Go for it with an open mind!
Jan
Hello Jan VC, very good how you live together, indeed follow your heart, outsiders sometimes do not understand such things very well, you share what you have with your Thai wife, wish you good luck in the future.
FYI, I myself got married with my Thai fiancee on June 10 in Bangkok, I am also and have been happy with her for almost 7 years. Good luck again man.
Kind regards Hans-ajax and his brand new wife.