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Is my ABP pension taxable in Thailand or the Netherlands?

By Submitted Message
Posted in Reader question
Tags: , ,
January 15 2019

Dear readers,

I accrued my ABP pension through my employer (FOM Foundation), which was affiliated with ABP as a B3 institution (public employer under private law).

The B3 status is, on the recommendation of the General Civil Pension Fund (Abp), granted to private employers who have strong ties with the government. In practice, they are usually spin-offs of existing public government employers, which are controlled by,
owned by and/or follow the terms and conditions of employment of those government employers. The organizational forms that occur here are always of a private law nature, such as associations, foundations, NVs and BVs.

I asked the ABP whether or not my ABP pension is taxable in Thailand, but I was referred to the tax authorities (logical!). Informing the tax authorities did not provide any clarity. I must first apply for the tax exemption in due course to find out where my ABP pension will be taxable.

Does anyone know where ABP pension accrued through a B3 employer is taxable after emigration to Thailand?

Regards,

Gerard

Number of times read: 262

14 responses to “Is my ABP pension taxable in Thailand or the Netherlands?”

  1. eugene says up
    15 January 2019 at 11: 32

    If you live in Thailand (more than 183 days a year) and you bring income into Thailand from abroad, you must in principle request a TIN number here and pay taxes here. This is not the case, for example, for matters for which you have to pay taxes abroad anyway, such as rental income.

  2. Keith 2 says up
    15 January 2019 at 12: 20

    Private law -> if you are deregistered from NL, your pension is in principle taxable in Thailand. That's what I was told by the IRS.

    • Keith 2 says up
      15 January 2019 at 14: 21

      And to be clear: I am also a member of the ABP and 97% of my pension is under private law (teacher at a foundation of schools), 3% under public law (temporary small job at a municipal school). I have to pay tax in NL on that 3%.

  3. Joost says up
    15 January 2019 at 12: 28

    Assuming you live in Thailand, a private-law pension is taxable in Thailand and not in the Netherlands. This is regulated in the tax treaty between Thailand and the Netherlands.

    • john says up
      15 January 2019 at 15: 21

      but abp pension is not a pension under private law!

      • Willem says up
        15 January 2019 at 18: 04

        Abp does indeed also have private-law pensions. Not everything managed by abp is for government employees.

  4. Paul. says up
    15 January 2019 at 12: 31

    Since you receive your pension from the abp, you are also liable for tax in NL.
    I'm in exactly the same boat and have been paying tax on this every year since my retirement, in other words, every year the tax return papers fall into my mailbox again. A waste of that money for which I or we do not get anything in return!!!!
    Greetings!

    • erik says up
      15 January 2019 at 15: 00

      Paulus, if you write “Since you receive your pension from the abp, you are also liable to pay tax in NL.” then that is too general. The ABP also pays pensions that are not state pensions.

  5. carpenter says up
    15 January 2019 at 14: 11

    In my opinion, ABP is a government pension and all government pensions (including AOW) are taxed in the Netherlands and not in Thailand.

    • Lammert de Haan says up
      16 January 2019 at 01: 29

      This response is incorrect on two counts.

      1. Not all pensions paid out by ABP are obtained from a government position. Private institutions (i.e. no government) are affiliated with the ABP. You should think in particular of private law educational or healthcare institutions. But pensions accrued in public companies cannot be regarded as a government pension either. Consider, for example, a municipal transport company.

      These private-law pensions fall under Article 18(1) of the Double Taxation Treaty concluded between the Netherlands and Thailand and are only taxed in Thailand.

      2. The claim that an AOW benefit (formally is not a pension) is taxed in the Netherlands and “therefore” not in Thailand is also incorrect.
      The Treaty makes no mention of social security benefits, including AOW or WAO benefits. A so-called “residual item” is also missing. This means that national law applies in this case.

      The Netherlands then taxes this part of your worldwide income as you do not enjoy treaty protection. But what applies to the Netherlands also applies to Thailand, of course. Thailand also taxes the worldwide income of its residents, unless one enjoys treaty protection.

      Just for clarification. The Netherlands has not concluded any treaty with Mali at all. If you live in Timbuktu in Mali, both the Netherlands and Mali are allowed to levy tax on your worldwide income. Subsequently, you can invoke the Decree on the prevention of double taxation in the Netherlands, after which you will receive a reduction in the income tax to be paid in the Netherlands.

      I know of course that this is often not in line with the practice in Thailand. If one already files a declaration in Thailand for the PIT, the state pension is most often excluded from the declaration, but that does not mean that this is formally correct. In fact, they are committing tax fraud.

      So to state that the AOW benefit is taxed in the Netherlands and “therefore” not in Thailand is therefore incorrect.

  6. anton says up
    15 January 2019 at 15: 09

    if you are deregistered from the Netherlands you are only liable for tax in Thailand. So no tax has been withheld from my ABP pension

    • john says up
      15 January 2019 at 15: 26

      this is too simple a premise. There is a treaty between the Netherlands and Thailand in which it is agreed which of the two countries can levy taxes. It really does not say: “if you are deregistered, you are liable to pay tax in Thailand”.
      If you have a government pension, the Netherlands may levy. But ABP does government pensions but some of the pensions that ABP arranges are not government pensions. THAT is the issue described by the questioner here.!! Other than that I like to leave it to the people who can speak about this with knowledge of the facts.

      • Keith 2 says up
        15 January 2019 at 16: 38

        Sigh…. as said: I have checked and have received black and white from the tax authorities that the private law part of my ABP pension is taxed in Thailand and the public law part in the Netherlands.

        That is !

  7. Frits says up
    16 January 2019 at 03: 19

    It may be known by now - after so many articles, explanations and explanations about when, how much Thai taxes pay - that a tax treaty exists between NL and TH. In short, this means that tax is paid on AOW in the Netherlands. TH may not levy tax on AOW funds. With regard to ABP pensions: those pensions that have not been accrued directly by the government may fall under the TH tax authorities. If you were a direct government official, you will continue to pay tax in the Netherlands. You can contact your pension provider about all functions in between.
    In other words: there is often only a small part left over which could or could not be presented to the TH tax authorities.
    But here it comes: the TH tax authorities are not interested in that at all. You must have a significant amount left over for the TH tax authorities to declare you admissible. The TH tax authorities have a high tax-free rate and many family and care-related deduction costs. In short: they will not open their books for less than THB 500K, and they will refer you to their own tax authorities with a smile.
    You do leave the house with a TH tax number (keep it safe!) and all data of passport, immigration papers and address are stored.


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