Reader question: My marriage in Thailand and its validity
Dear readers,
My Thai wife and I (Dutch) were officially married on August 4, 2014 at the Chiang Mai town hall. All necessary papers have been translated into Thai and English and provided with the necessary stamps. So our marriage is recognized in Thailand.
On many internet sites you can read that a Thai marriage is not recognized in the Netherlands (but does this only apply to a Buddhist marriage?).
Now we also want to get married in the Netherlands during our upcoming visit to the Netherlands. The civil servant of my municipality referred me to the National Affairs – Public Affairs of the municipality of The Hague. There I also requested to get married in the Netherlands. Their answer: "You are now married in Thailand, you cannot get married again in the Netherlands."
My questions:
- is this legally correct?
- if so, do I have to pass on this change in civil status to the official authorities, such as the municipality, the tax authorities, the UWV, the pension funds, etc.?
- Will my wife, as a widow, become the 'owner' of my accrued pension rights after my death in Thailand, or will they revert to the State of the Netherlands upon my death?
- or will my wife only be recognized as the wife of a Dutch citizen if our marriage certificate has been registered by the above-mentioned authority?
Who has experience with this state of affairs and brings 'light into the darkness' for us?
Thanks in advance for any info and/or tips.
Phidsawong and Wim
Yes, this is legally correct. Registering a marriage in your place of residence, with all translations and stamps, that is the procedure. It will take some time before you hear back about this: in my case 5 months, via the same civil registrar.
Only then will your marriage be legally valid in the Netherlands.
With regard to pension rights: AOW: NO, personally accrued pension: depending on. In my case, I had accrued pension rights with ABP before my marriage, and they do NOT revert to my current wife.
You will undoubtedly have received an explanation form at the Dutch Embassy in Bangkok when you applied for the “certificate to conduct marriage”. That's the correct explanation!
You must register your marriage in the Netherlands (in The Hague indeed). Then your Thai marriage is also valid in the Netherlands. The KorRor 2 must then be translated (in English) and legalized (by the Dutch Embassy in Bangkok). You have “the necessary stamps”, I assume that is what you mean. Please note: The legalization by the embassy is decisive in this case! Translation alone is not enough, even though the Department of Consular Affairs stamps itself completely drowsy!!
The reason why you cannot get married (again) in the Netherlands is simple; Your wife is already married (to you) in Thailand. So she will no longer receive proof that she is unmarried in Thailand. Only you are still considered unmarried in the Netherlands, until you have your Thai marriage registered.
As soon as your marriage is registered, your wife is also your wife in the Netherlands and the laws and regulations regarding inheritance, etc., apply.
Hello Wim, it is important whether your wife has a residence permit, then you can register her in the basic administration of your place of residence, then you can register as being married.
Pension funds and other institutions get their information from the basic administration and copy it.
That's how I did it, if you live in Thailand then I don't know how it works.
Dear Phidsawong and Wim,
You just have to translate the papers and have them registered in the Netherlands. This is how the marriage is recognized for Dutch law.
As already written above, getting married twice before the law is not possible, because you are already married.
Gr. John.
Your explanation is not right John Chiang rai and no more here!
Register marriage!!!!
If you live in the Netherlands, you MUST register the marriage in the Municipal Personal Records Database ( BRP ). If you live abroad as a Dutch citizen, this is NOT possible!!!
It is wise to register your foreign marriage certificate in the marriage register. You can do this at the national Tasks of the Municipality of The Hague. You can always request an extract or copy of the deed!
Legalization foreign marriage certificate!!!!
If you want to have the foreign marriage certificate registered in the Netherlands, you must have it legalized first!!! You have this done by the authorities of the country where you got married (in this case Thailand). After that, the Dutch dilomatic representation of that country must legalize the marriage certificate!!! (Bangkok Embassy)
Finally, I really wonder why people only write something??? it can all be read on the embassy websites of the Netherlands. In this case you will always be sent to a link from the rijksoverheid.nl
Everything is clear and well described, so a little searching and a child can do the laundry!
If you really want to know everything nowadays and be sure, then go to the Asia Consular in Kuala Lumpur, because they really know ales about this kind of business and everything goes through them nowadays!!! Send an email to this address with your question and you will receive a perfect answer how to act!!!
This is THE answer about registering your marriage in the Netherlands!!! On your other question whether you can get married again in the Netherlands, etc., simply ask the Senior Officer in Kuala Lumpur. The e-mail address is listed.
[email protected]
Here is the site to register your marriage in the Netherlands. Everything goes digital. Later in the procedure you must send the original documents!
http://www.denhaag.nl/home/bewoners/loket/burgerzaken/to/Buitenlandse-huwelijksakte-omzetten-in-een-Nederlandse-akte.htm
In addition to my comment above,
1. Have the Thai marriage certificate legalized at the Dutch consulate in Thailand.
(You need this legalization to prove in the Netherlands that it is an original certificate.
2nd First with these papers you can register your marriage in the Netherlands.
Getting married again before the law in the Netherlands is impossible, because you (already a woman) must provide proof for the civil registry in the Netherlands that she is unmarried, and according to Thai law she is already married to you.
Dear Wim,
It is certainly not meant personally, but your question is a nice example of someone who takes an - important - decision, while he is still completely in the dark about the (legal) consequences.
I take the liberty of taking the opportunity to warn against that in general.
Unfortunately, I don't know enough about this subject to be able to give a conclusive answer, and a shouting horn is of little use.
For these kinds of issues, where specific details can often have far-reaching consequences, a specialized lawyer is not a superfluous luxury.
Hello Wim
What an ex-colleague of mine told me, because he married after his 62 years, but with a (Dutch woman) he married at the age of 67.
If you are married after 62 years your wife is no longer entitled to his accrued pension after his death
That's what he and his wife told me
Greetings
Hans
The following about the ABP: I am also married and the ABP - after my death - first pays a widower's pension and when he reaches retirement age he will receive the same pension from the ABP as I have now. I checked that at the time (could choose that the pension is only intended for me or the choice as described above; in the latter form the benefit is slightly lower, but that is almost nil.
Still, take a good look, Roja, is my advice. You have/had the choice of whether or not to pay out a survivor's pension upon your death. The ordinary (pre-)pension benefit is virtually the same whether or not you choose, but after your death your partner - if he remains - will receive a survivor's pension or not. That survivor's pension is nowhere near as high as your own pension accrued by and for yourself, but the AOW and any pension entitlements accrued by yourself must also be added. Incidentally, very easy for everyone to check at: mijnpensioenoverzicht.nl, also by Pidsawong and Wim.
Pretty off. topic, I know, but perhaps useful enough… Speaking of nuts?
Regards,
W
A marriage concluded in Thailand before the amphur is under international law
(Convention of The Hague) valid in the Netherlands.
According to this treaty, which law applies to marriage depends on where you will live after the honeymoon (together, separately, another country, etc.).
This treaty deals with matrimonial property law, important in the event of death and divorce.
However, if you have to arrange matters in the Netherlands, you must have the Thai marriage certificate translated into English and legalized.
But these papers are only valid for 6 months. In order not to have to do this every time, it can be registered with Foreign Acts in The Hague (counter in town hall).
This must all be done within 6 months.
For Foreign Deeds, an extract can then be obtained later, which is legally valid.
If you are still registered in the Netherlands, your marital status can be adjusted in the Civil Registry and in the BRP. If you have been deregistered, this was not possible in the GBA in the past, but I am not aware of that from the BRP. Likewise, the Civil Registry is not known to me in such a case.
For the AOW, see all written articles about this, single AOW, partner allowance, etc.
You do not state ages or at what time the marriage was concluded, which is important for the AOW.
But also for pension benefits, you normally buy off surviving dependant's pension if you are unmarried at the time of retirement.
And many pension funds have a transitional period to prevent people from getting married the week before their retirement age.
After the pension benefits have started, changes are therefore no longer possible.
Regards,
Color
Surprise – it turns out I have a double. Is there little I can do about it, I think, if someone suddenly submits a contribution under the same name? If all goes well, the moderator will see that a different email address has been used?
Moderator: yes, there are more dogs named Fikkie. Could use a more unique name.
thanks for all the comments submitted!
our ages are: male 57 years old female 47 years old and we live in chiang mai.
You must also have a copy of the marriage register made at the Amphur where you got married and have it translated and legalized, the Netherlands is not satisfied with just that beautiful piece of paper (marriage certificate) stating that you are married.
My marriage was registered in Rotterdam with, yes really, the Aliens Police where I had to come in person. Then to The Hague and registered there and as soon as we got back to Thailand, my pockets were full.
Also your info is not correct!!! The Dutch Embassy must also legalize otherwise nothing will be registered even if you have a thousand copies and stamps!
Here's the correct order.
Have all papers, certificate and two pages from marriage register amphur and birth certificate Thai partner translated into English.
Have it legalized by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand (in Bangkok).
Some good translators will do that for you for free,
in the past they also did the legalization at the Embassies,
but no longer the Dutch, so do it yourself.
Then fill in a form at the Dutch Embassy and have it legalized there.
And have it registered in the Netherlands, also send a set to the Tax and Customs Administration and Pension Fund.
If you are no longer registered in the Netherlands, they will no longer receive this information.
Cor.