Dear readers,
I got married under Thai law in 2009. I did have the marriage certificate legalized at the Dutch Embassy in Bangkok in 2009, but I did not register it in the GBA of my municipality in the Netherlands because my partner has never lived in the Netherlands and has also lived there in the will not live in the future. She therefore makes no claim whatsoever under Dutch social legislation in any form whatsoever.
My partner only comes on holiday in the Netherlands for 2 weeks a year. I have an apartment in the Netherlands and run my own household and my partner runs her own household in Thailand. However, I do give my partner a monthly contribution for a mortgage house, which is in her name and was built for our marriage. I stay in Thailand for a few months a year and alternately in the Netherlands on the basis of a 3 monthly visa.
My questions are:
– Am I obliged to register my marriage in the Netherlands in the GBA of my municipality and what are the advantages and disadvantages?
– Do I receive state pension for a single person, because:
1. We both run an independent household,
2. We live separately for about half the year
3. My partner has never lived in the Netherlands and will not live there in the future and is therefore not entitled to social legislation in the Netherlands and will not receive a state pension later.
With kind regards,
Henk
I think you should register your marriage in the Netherlands, because in the Netherlands you are only allowed to be married to 1 partner.
Now you could get married again in the Netherlands, because according to the GBA you are unmarried. Conversely, you could also get married again in Thailand (probably), because you can get proof from NL that you are unmarried. The NL embassy will therefore have to issue a certificate of no objection (Certificate to conduct marriage) and with that you can get married again in Thailand. And also in Thailand, being married to 2 partners is not allowed.
All this apart from any claims that your partner may have on your pension/state pension and on your estate.
What would be a reason NOT to register your marriage in the Netherlands?
The very first sentence already states that the marriage will be legalized through the Dutch embassy. Is it then not automatically registered in The Hague?
No, not to my knowledge.
In view of the change to the AOW with regard to partnership as of 1 January 2015, you are no longer eligible for a supplement for your partner. You are therefore only entitled to half of the state pension for married people.
However, if you live separately from your partner, you are entitled to a single state pension.
So I would think carefully about what you do with this situation.
Some addition to this is necessary. If the man was born before 1 January 1950, you can receive a partner allowance. I am legally married in Thailand, not in the Netherlands. Cohabitants can also receive a partner allowance, provided that the man was born, see above. Because my wife is younger, I get about € 300 allowance per month.
This is incorrect. If you have a registered partnership or are married, you are NOT entitled to a single state pension, even if you do not live together.
Get it every month, half married state pension plus a supplement for my Thai wife. Have a decision from the SVB! I was born before 1-1-1950. My wife is 40 years old.
Dear people,
Whether or not you are married or have a registered partnership no longer matters. What counts is the living situation. The new rules apply to all people who have become or will be entitled to pension after 1 January 2015. From 1 January 2015, the partner allowance for new cases has been abolished. Each partner receives his or her AOW at his or her retirement age. That is 50% of the minimum wage. If one of the two has not yet reached retirement age, the government assumes that the younger partner should start working. If both partners have reached retirement age, they will each receive 50% of the minimum wage. That's the reality.
If a pensioner lives alone, he or she receives a living alone benefit, which is 70% of the minimum wage. If that person starts living together, that person will lose his or her living alone benefit and will only receive 50% of the minimum wage. If the partner has not yet reached retirement age, then that person should start working. If the cohabitation relationship is broken, that person will again receive a benefit for living alone.
For old cases who still have a partner allowance (from before 1 January 2015), such as you, they will lose the allowance if he or she ends the cohabitation. In that case, that person will receive the benefit of living alone at 70% of the minimum wage. If that person starts living together again later, that person will lose his benefit living alone, the new benefit will be 50% of the minimum wage and he or she will NOT receive a partner allowance again. He or she is therefore better off not living together again.
Supplements are possible, but they have strict rules, comparable to social assistance benefits.
It can get even crazier. Under the new rules, a person living alone receives 70% of the minimum wage and someone with a minor child (single parent) receives 50% of the minimum wage. In my case, I am better off “throwing out” my wife and child together than just my wife. In other words, if you have a minor child at home, you will receive 20% less. Long live the welfare state.
But dear Frans Nico, right? Why the outrage? The SVB is very clear on its site several times that a single parent who lives with their own child(ren) or stepchild or foster child(ren) receives the AOW pension for a single person. It is even mentioned in a separate chapter and paragraph:
http://www.svb.nl/int/nl/aow/wonen_met_iemand_anders/eigen_kind/
You live in one house with children aged 18 or older
If you live alone with your own children or stepchildren or foster children aged 18 or older, you will receive the AOW pension for single persons. This is 70% of the net minimum wage.
http://www.svb.nl/int/nl/aow/wonen_met_iemand_anders/samen_wonen/
Even in cases where someone lives with a grandchild under the age of 18.
If the grandchild is then 18 years and older, the status will be regarded as a multi-year foster child and the single state pension will continue to apply.
the man is already legally married in thailand and the marriage is also legalized at the dutch embassy so getting married again is not an option.
The embassy has already issued a Certificate to conduct marragae once.
Kind of strange advice you give Dennis or you don't fully understand the question
Dear JohnMark,
A legally valid marriage in Thailand is not automatically recognized in the Netherlands. A marriage certificate legalized by the Dutch embassy certainly does not entail registration of the marriage in the Netherlands!
Furthermore, in such cases I always only give 1 advice: Contact the embassy. All other "advice", including mine, are just well-meaning opinions.
If your partner does not live in the Netherlands, there is no advantage in having your marriage registered here. In fact, you have already gone a step too far by registering it in Bangkok. Since January 1, 2014, a "two-home scheme" has been introduced whereby 2 people who each run their own household and pay for their own housing, can keep single persons aow regardless of how much you are together. So in your situation you could keep single people aow provided you are not married and you are. So if the SVB knows that, you will receive “married persons” state pension, regardless of whether or not you live together. Just look at the website of the SVB for "two-home scheme".
Married? If you live so far apart, you should be able to consider this as separate from bed and board (they may call it something else now). Apparently they don't see each other that often.
I live alone, but because someone is staying in my house, the partner's pension was forced on me, otherwise I would only receive half the married state pension.
So why not speak of separate living now, when you live so far apart?
Han is absolutely right here, if you get married or enter into a registered partnership, you must report this to the SVB, you will receive a form that you must fill in about the situation, you may also receive a visit from the SVB.
When you register, your state pension will certainly decrease by EUR 300, but your allowance will increase slightly.
The website of the SVB also contains a list of what you will receive less in AOW.
Wouldn't start with this as advice.
Lion.
I am Belgian, I got married in Thailand five months ago, registered in the embassy in Bkk and listed in the national register, you ask the benefits, my pension has gone from 881 eu to 1419 eu, a big advantage for me
Greetings Reinold
you are married to someone who is not entitled to their own AOW (everyone who has never lived or worked in the Netherlands) so you always get single AOW. Even if you live with 100 people in 1 house and you are married to 40! (As long as it is not in the Netherlands itself. There is no surcharge at all for people who marry someone who is not entitled to state pension! The rule only applies if BOTH partners are entitled to state pension. When will someone read!
Really completely wrong. If you live with or marry a Thai person, you will no longer receive a single state pension. It makes no difference whether or not she is entitled to benefits herself. Dangerous claim you make here, so people who are in doubt should just visit the SVB site, there no distinction is made at all between partners who are or are not themselves entitled to a Dutch benefit.
Partner supplement only applies to Persons born before 01-01-1950. If that is the case, the partner allowance must have been applied for before 01-01-2015.
If so, show me where it is on the SVB site. Thailand is a treaty country with the Netherlands and it is checked whether you live together or are married. If you live together or are married, you will receive a benefit as if you were married.
Dear Renevan.
The new rules as of 1 January 2015 are based on cohabitation. It does not matter whether you are married or not. The basis is cohabitation. But Ko is wrong with his view.
Hi Ko,
I'm a little confused by all the different answers to my question, but I hope you gave me the right answer. My wife is not entitled to state pension and never will be. Do I have to register my marriage in the GBA? If I do that, I will not automatically be regarded as married by the SVB.
Then they do it wrong at the SVB. I receive a surcharge for my Thai wife who has never lived or worked in the Netherlands! And I can read well!
It has nothing to do with accrued AOW rights, the fact is that you will receive 300 euros less AOW if you start living together. Even if the person you live with has no income. This rule is of course quite antisocial: more costs, less income. This rule has applied since January 1, 2015.
If you are married, you are only eligible for “married AOW”.
Both partners will then receive their share (700 euros/month) insofar as they have accrued this. A Thai partner who has not lived in the Netherlands has accrued nothing and has no rights.
in this situation, the NL partner only receives the married AOW of 700 euros/month and not the single persons AOW of 1000 euros/month.
Under certain conditions you can receive a partner allowance (of 700 euros/month). For example, you must have been born before 1 November 1949.
Being married to a Thai partner often means that you miss out on 300 euros/month!
I married a Thai in Thailand in 2014. I reported this to the SVB in October 2014. My single person's benefit was stopped, but I immediately received more than 300 extra on top of half of the AOW for married people. Because I was born before 1-1-1950, I will continue to receive the extra allowance.
Interesting. I am officially married in Thailand and I intend to register this in The Hague. I am now 58 and wonder if this is financially sensible in due course in connection with AOW e/o company pension (once I am 60)
I'd like to hear about this. eg
Numerous questions are devoted to AOW (and related to this theme) on a regular basis. And of course the answers are corresponding. Yet right and wrong answers have been given just as often, except in the above comments. They are all wrong.
When asked by Henk whether he is entitled to the 'AOW with Single Allowance' (he does not ask about Partner Allowance at all), the answer is: YES, he has that for the months that he does not live together! This is because only one criterion applies, and that is: cohabitation.
It is important for the SVB (and the NL Government) to know whether someone lives alone or whether someone lives together. That's what it's all about: what is someone's living situation like? Not the living situation. It is not about being married, or about the fact that you spend part of your benefits to send to a faraway country. What matters is: do you live with a woman/man/parent/child/grandfather/grandmother/aunt/colleague/boyfriend/girlfriend/etc/etc/etc.
(I'm ignoring the issue of multi-person households here because it doesn't apply to Henk's situation!)
Everything else is irrelevant: not that Henk is only legally married in TH, not that this marriage is registered in BKK at the NL Embassy, not that his TH wife only comes to NL for 2 weeks a year, nor that Henk lives in NL lives in an apartment, not that he sends his Thai wife money every month, nor that he travels to TH with a tourist visa. All that is irrelevant. He should know everything himself. The SVB is not interested at all. What does interest the SVB is the question: Does Henk live together?
The SVB only asks Henk: do you live together? Henk's answer is: No, I don't live together.
SVB then asks: Henk, are you married? Henk: Yes, I am married to a woman under Thai law, but she lives in TH all year round, and only comes on holiday to my home address for 2 weeks a year in NL.
SVB: Do you sometimes live in TH with that woman? Henk: Well, we live separately for about half the year (see point 2 in the question).
SVB: Does this mean that you live together with the other half in TH?
Henk: If I'm being honest then I have to answer yes to this question?
SVB: Well now, then we will pay you a single state pension for the months that you are in NL and a married couple's state pension for the months that you cohabit in TH.
And the rest: irrelevant! It is what it is!
Well done Soi, very well put together, that's how it is Henk and nothing else, living together yes or no, that's what it's all about.
Henk therefore continues to report to the SVB:
go to Thailand, live together there, as a result ... married on the basis of state pension.
come to NL, live there alone, as a result … single state pension.
Nico B
I think this is a very enlightening explanation. I've been looking for this for a long time.
In any case, it gives a lot of starting points for further research.
Thanks.
(I can now assume that these claims are correct. Haha.)
As for the question regarding the state pension, I myself submitted it to the office of the SVB Breda, where I was told that it is purely about “living together or sharing a household”. It does not matter whether you are married or not, or whether one of the partners has no income or pension.
So if you share one household, you are not entitled to a “single person allowance”. This is not to be confused with partner allowance because that has different rules, as described here before by the readers.
However, there is one exception for the state pension supplement, which is that if you maintain 2 households (for example, one in Thailand and one in the Netherlands) and you live separately for a large part of the year, you can claim the single person supplement.
Henk raises another matter: he married a Thai woman in TH for Thai law in 2009. He has had this marriage legalized in BKK at the NL Embassy, but (still) not registered with BRP/formerly GBA in his municipality of residence. He should know that himself, but the fact is that:
1- if you got married abroad and live in Alkmaar, for example, then you are obliged by law to register your marriage in the Netherlands in the Municipal Personal Records Database (BRP) of the municipality of Alkmaar. You do this when you are back in the Netherlands. So even if you moved to TH in 2000, got married in TH in 2005, and come back to NL in 2015.
2- Within 6 months after your return you are expected to join the counters of the Municipal BRP (formerly GBA).
3- If you fail to do so, the Municipality may consider imposing an 'administrative' fine on you.
4- There is no obligation to register as long as you live in TH (or abroad).
5- Making a foreign marriage legally valid through the NL Embassy, as Henk did, is another matter. Basically he is saying with this: Look guys, I married a Thai woman named so and so and live there, here in TH. So why not register in his municipality with the BRP formerly GBA?
6- If you have legalized your foreign marriage, you may, or do not have to, register that marriage with the Municipality of The Hague. Please note: this is not the same as the intended registration.
You register in the municipality where you live or will live again.
Why should you register your marriage? On the one hand to prevent marriages of convenience, and to guarantee the same rights to the foreign marriage partners in the event of a divorce, for example, with regard to matters of inheritance in the event of the death of a spouse, or to protect the rights of any (step) children. But also to prevent administrative fraud, for example if a spouse lives with his spouse for 6 months a year, but still wants to receive an AOW with a single allowance for 12 months a year.
I tend to agree with Soi's explanation.
Soi, could you perhaps provide a link where your explanation can be found on the SVB website?
Thanks!
RichardJ, here you have the text from the SVB site.
You are getting married or living together
Someone who is married or lives with someone else will receive a different AOW amount than someone who lives alone.
Do you live alone? Then you will receive an AOW pension for unmarried persons. This is 70 percent of the net minimum wage. Are you going to marry or live in a house with someone else? Then you will receive an AOW pension for married couples. This is 50 percent of the net minimum wage. If you both have reached state pension age, you will therefore receive 100% together.
You are married or registered partner
We make no difference between marriage or registered partnership. In both cases you are entitled to an AOW pension for married couples. This is 50% of the net minimum wage. There is an exception to this: are you married or a registered partner and are you permanently separated from your partner? Then we assume that you live alone if:
• you both live your own lives as if you were not married and
• you both run your own household and
• this situation is permanent
You will then receive an AOW pension for unmarried persons. This is 70% of the net minimum wage.
What do we mean by living together?
For the purposes of the SVB, you live together if you:
• stays in a home together with someone aged 18 or older for more than half of the time and
• share household expenses or take care of each other
Daily behavior shows whether people share the costs of the household and/or take care of each other. This is not only about 'paying together', but also about using each other's property (such as a car) and helping each other with household chores (shopping, cooking, washing).
We call the person you live with your 'partner'. This can be your spouse, boyfriend or girlfriend, but also a brother, sister or grandchild. If you cohabit, you will receive an AOW pension for married couples. This is 50% of the net minimum wage.
AOW and joint household (pdf, 656 kB)
Two-home rule – what if you both own a home?
You spend more than half of the time in a home with someone aged 18 or older. And you both have a home. In that case you are considered not cohabiting. This situation is called the two-house rule. A number of conditions apply to this:
• you are unmarried and
• you both have your own rental or owner-occupied home; or a rental home for assisted living or group living; or a home based on a right of usufruct or a real right of residence and
• you are both registered with the municipality at your own address and
• you pay the full costs and charges for your owner-occupied home and
• you can freely dispose of your owner-occupied home.
Henk is married, so the two-home rule does not apply. Why? Abuse? Fraud? Clarity?
Nico B
Thanks, Nico.
Based on the text you give above, I think Soi is wrong after all.
Soi writes:
“For the SVB (and the NL-Government) it is important to know whether someone lives alone or whether someone lives together. That's what it's all about: what is someone's living situation like? Not the living situation. It's not about being married, or about spending part of your allowance to send to a faraway country. It's about: do you live with a wife/husband/parent/child/grandpa/grandmother/aunt/colleague/boyfriend/girlfriend/etc/etc/etc.
(I will not consider the issue of multi-person households here because it does not apply to Henk's situation!)”.
In short, not only your living situation but also your living situation (married or not) is indeed important. If you meet 1 of these two criteria, you fall under the Married AOW.
Soi, can you comment on this?
If the moderator allows me, I would like, upon request and finally, to say the following:
As I argued before, there are just as many wrong answers as there are right answers on topics like this. Even more or less wrong or right. However, the SVB definitely has the right answer in this regard. Ask the SVB is the adage then, and let @Haki do it just yesterday at 14:23 pm. Read there what came to his attention via SVB Breda.
You can also read on the SVB site that 70% minimum wage is provided to a person living alone as an AOW benefit, and 50% to a cohabitant. All other percentages and calculations concern exceptional cases, and they do not mention the example of the questioner Henk.
It can also be concluded from the texts on the site that the living situation is leading. In addition, for some exceptional situation, the living situation may also be a determining factor (whereby a registered partnership is equated with a marriage.) Being unmarried as a living situation then applies, for example around the two-home rule, and for example around
http://www.svb.nl/int/nl/aow/wonen_met_iemand_anders/samen_wonen/u_heeft_een_relatie_maar_woont_niet_samen/
But in the case of the questioner Henk, it only applies that he is married, and then that someone lives with the SVB if he or she:
1- stay in a home more than half of the time with someone aged 18 or older 2- and share the household costs
3- or takes care of each other.
Someone who lives together receives an AOW pension of 50% of the net minimum wage.
No questions are asked about the living situation, nor is there any notification regarding this.
In Henk's situation, the said 3 points apply from the first day of each period of 3 months that he spends with his partner in TH.
http://www.svb.nl/int/nl/aow/wonen_met_iemand_anders/samen_wonen/u_heeft_een_relatie_maar_woont_niet_samen/
Dear Henk,
I do not know whether you have accrued a company pension in the Netherlands.
If you want your partner to receive a benefit after your death, you must also make arrangements for this. You must then apply for a partner's pension. As a result, you will receive less pension benefit yourself.
The rules for what constitutes a partner differ per pension fund.
I thought I'd let you know. 😉
With AOW you are obliged to report a marriage entered into abroad to the SVB in connection with the allocation of amounts. During the period that the partner is still in Thailand waiting for permission to come to the Netherlands to settle with the spouse, the SVB can grant a supplement, provided that a certain minimum amount is transferred monthly to the Thai partner for maintenance. On the basis of being married alone abroad and declared to the Embassy, SVB does not pay a lifelong allowance to the Thai partner. In the event of a separate stay, the AOW person living in the Netherlands is entitled to a supplement to the AOW up to a statutory minimum for the period that he lives alone in the Netherlands. Furthermore, the AOW pensioner must state the duration and reason of the trip to the SVB for every trip abroad. If you specify cohabitation with a partner in Thailand, the allowance will lapse over this period. If the marriage is consumed by both living in the Netherlands and AOW is supplemented with partner allowance and both decide to emigrate to Thailand, the partner allowance will lapse to Thai partner. Also applies to KGB and Child Benefit surcharges for children who are going to live in Thailand and who also have a Thai passport in accordance with Thai law. Supplement to AOW applicable when living in the Netherlands expires upon emigration. LB is deducted from AOW if you are taxable here. Upon expiry of duty to
annual declaration upon emigration has an SVB arrangement with contracting countries to which AOW is transferred. If AOW is transferred gross, the recipient, as a resident, must pay local tax on this.
As a Belgian, I have no knowledge whatsoever about the entire AOW case. I'm going and so I can't say anything about that
However, am I the only one who questions the question.
It seems to me to be more about a business agreement between two people than about a marriage. Strictly speaking, a marriage is of course also a business agreement, but hey...
However, the question seems to me more focused in the direction of “do I get the financial maximum from my marriage contract, or is there a reader who can give me a tip on how I can get a few more Euros out of it….
Could be wrong of course, but that's how it comes to me...
It does not matter whether you are married or live together, if you declare this to the SVB, from that moment on the AOW person will receive 50% AOW (of +/_- €1400) provided he has accrued 100% and was born before January 1, 1950, the partner also receives a supplement if she or he has no or very little income, that supplement is then calculated based on the age of the partner, supplement is paid to Aow-er
example
state pensioner 50% +/- €700
partner aged 40 has therefore not accrued 40-17 = 23 x 2% = 46%
partner allowance therefore becomes 54% = +/- 54x €700 = €378
total therefore +/- 700 + 348 = 1148
go ahead guys and do your math
Living with a Thai woman since 1984 whom I married in 2002. The marriage is registered in the Netherlands. From the beginning I had a married AOW (when I later retired) plus a supplement for my younger wife equal to what I receive from the SVB on AOW, married or unmarried doesn't matter. When I went with AOW, the treaty between Thailand and Holland had not yet been rationalized, it didn't matter because you only lost your allowance from your single AOW, wherever you go to live you get the married AOW, treaty or no treaty, married or unmarried plus one possibly. surcharge for a younger woman. The purchasing power allowance is also calculated according to the number of years that you have lived in the Netherlands. My wife has never been to the Netherlands and hardly knows where it is. She also had a BSN or Social Security number from the Tax as a resident tax payer, which I put an end to because according to a new regulation you can no longer do that, was just in time and was just able. If you marry now, both of you will automatically be regarded as liable to tax in the Netherlands. There is more.