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Home » Reader question » Reader question: How many Dutch people have emigrated to Thailand?
Hello Bloggers,
You always read a lot about pensioners or expats. Is it known how many Dutch people have really emigrated to Thailand and who therefore MUST not go back to the Netherlands every time because of the medical costs, but who stay here all year round?
I myself have been living in Thailand for more than 15 years, permanently, and I often talk to fellow compatriots about how many there could be, we think it is a very small percentage.
Perhaps this is only known to the embassy and I can imagine that it does not respond to this.
You often see the same bloggers, do they all live permanently in Thailand without going back or does most of the information come from the Netherlands or Belgium
I enjoy reading this blog, but I do find it annoying that there are often negative reactions to reactions, so you don't even dare to send anything to this blog because there is always something wrong or people who know everything better.
If it is placed OK and otherwise good luck,
With kind regards,
Other
I don't think the Embassy has the right answer either, I happened to be there last Thursday and then I read the Form regarding Registration at the Embassy for residents in Thailand.
The costs for this are €30… Seems a bit much to me, which is why I quickly put the form back.
I live in Thailand all year round.
Hi Bjorn,
Register online and it costs nothing.
I did it for both of us.
Would do.
At least people know where you are.
LOUISE
Yes, for the tax!
The Dutch embassy does not know how many Dutch people live in Thailand because registration is not required. Estimates range from 8.000 to 11.000. I myself assume 9.000
What are the advantages of being registered at the embassy? (or maybe disadvantages?). First considering that 30 € (one-time or annual?) seems to me to be an manageable amount for expats, I hope.
Because as a Dutch citizen you would like the embassy to help you in (serious) emergencies, I think it is normal to inform the embassy in advance where you are. I even think this should be mandatory.
As a Dutch citizen, you not only have rights, but also (moral) obligations towards the Dutch state. Many Dutch people like to forget that.
Indeed, as a Dutch citizen you have rights and obligations.
But given the fact that as an emigrated old fart you are completely out of the sight of the Dutch government, and are in many ways regarded as a negligible citizen, I think that after 57 years of not having shied away from the obligations imposed on me by the Dutch imposed on the government, including to stay in the surcoat for the princely sum of one whole guilder per day, which cost me five hundred guilders or more income per month, I decided in 2006 to withdraw as much as possible from the interference of the same government,
As for registering with the embassy, I registered twice.
I assume, since I don't want to pay €30 for that privilege, my registration has/will expire?
And that without any message?
If the Dutch Government will force me to register (again) and have to count down €30 for that privilege, I will do what I should have done in 1967, consider myself a conscientious objector.
Out of order, but I've been registered at the embassy for years.
I would occasionally receive a text message, but only receive incomplete text messages, do not hear anything else, Then suddenly that option has expired and I have to be put on a list in NL, do not hear anything about it either, and now I have to read here that there is something new that costs 30 euros?
The information department of the embassy … does it even exist? It doesn't shine.
The embassy or other government agency (even the CBS) does not know this because people are not obliged to report where they are moving to, why or for how long (permanent or emigrant OR temporary or expat). When you enter the gate at the Dutch border, people want to know everything about you, hardly anything when you leave. Some consciously or even deliberately forget to deregister from the Netherlands.
A few weeks ago, Ambassador Joan Boer had a nice interview in which he also said he didn't know exactly:
https://www.thailandblog.nl/achtergrond/gesprek-joan-boer-nederlands-ambassadeur/
People know how many Thai there are in NL because the government registers that at the gate. I like those numbers. Would also like to know how many Dutch people are in TH, why, how long they are there, how long they think they will stay (expat or emigrant?), what kind of residence status they have, age, marital status, etc. Then you get a nice picture of whom are now in Thailand.
I once read somewhere that a good 6000 expats stayed in Thailand for a long time, and have also been deregistered from the Netherlands.
The same story also stated that there were 3000 temporary expats living in Thailand who had not been deregistered from the Netherlands.
I had saved that article on the hard drive of a sadly dead computer.
That seems to me, with a small margin up or down, to be correct.
HansNL, that “deceased” computer… what had he died of? If it was a hard drive crash, there's little I can help with. Everything else I can get your hard drive data back and if you live too far from me I can tell you how to do it.
Then you can also take out that article and we can continue here….
Let me know. The editors have my email address… you can forward this to me… after all, we are not allowed to chat…
Unfortunately…..
There was so incredibly much important stuff on that hard drive that I went to an (expensive) specialist with my computer and all.
Unfortunately, the hard disk had really died completely, nothing could be read from it.
Seems like a good study topic for a student of Social Sciences to do a demographic study on Dutch people in Thailand.
Gringo, you give me a capital idea!
KKU Khon Kaen Uni is looking for possible studies, in which both the Social Sciences and the language institute could participate.
Moderator: please don't chat
Google annual report SVB for number of state pensions to Thailand
Looked it up.
Pffffffff
Number of benefit claimants in Thailand 1013
Growth in 2012 120
It seems to me that this is not quite right.
I assume that in the figures above, the SVB only included those who receive payment into a Thai bank account.
Seems so.
I have been living in Thailand for 3 years now with my Dutch partner and have deregistered in the Netherlands. I still pay taxes in NL because of my pre-retirement as a soldier. I just have all insurance policies in the Netherlands (fire, legal assistance, WA, medical expenses, etc, just at my Thai address.).
I am registered at the NL embassy in Bangkok and that did not cost me anything (just via their site).
The tax authorities and SVB will be able to accurately indicate how many Dutch people live in Thailand.
Sincerely,
L
Don't be under any illusions, they know everything about us, there is the CAK in the Netherlands, that is the Central Administration Office, everything is recorded there, how much money the pension funds transfer monthly, and to whom, and where, then the SVB, ditto , Big Brother is Watching you.
Greetings Gert
In 2002, a hotel manager in Chiang Mai already had a list of several thousand Dutch people in the area.
How many NL people keep their NL address to go back in time for the really needy old age? Ordinary renting out the house with an agreement to take care of the mail or a so-called split off part of the house in which one of the children lives for the rest?
fairy tales, they have already arranged that by law !!
nothing with your children, including registration or living with your children,
that was once, but not anymore.
Dear Ko, it is not possible to simply continue your basic health insurance in the Netherlands after you have deregistered in the Netherlands. I wish it was true! Gus
I didn't even talk about basic insurance. Health insurance simply via Unive foreign policy. Costs 300 euros per month, but then you are insured for everything without a deductible. Is a lot of money, but in NL add up everything from basic insurance, deductible, personal contribution to medicines, travel insurance, etc.
Dear Ko,
About your health insurance; surely that is “Caring” performed by Unive, as I lee the policy is that only for; I quote from the site, “Caring is aimed at anyone who has or has had an employment relationship with the Department of Defense. Family members can also participate” end of quote, or is there sometimes a back door to get that insurance anyway.
Yours faithfully,
Lex K.
Hi Lex, I don't think it says: is exclusively for ..! Unive is obliged to accept (former) military personnel without reservation. This also applies to former conscripts. I have the universal complete (used to be the caring).
Hi Guus, my husband (now living in Thailand) deregistered from NL two years ago and informed the Amersfoortse insurance about this, as long as you still pay tax and remain registered with the Chamber of Commerce, you can simply keep the basic insurance with the Amersfoortse. We did request a “confirmation of coverage” from the insurance company and received this because of all the stories on this blog, among others, that it is not possible. Greetings Loes
Dear Loes, if you go to live in Thailand and deregister with the municipality in the Netherlands (mandatory if you will be away for more than 8 months, which is obvious in case of emigration), you will receive a form from the tax authorities. Once completed, you no longer pay social security contributions in the Netherlands, assuming that you no longer receive a salary from the Netherlands. The obligation to pay income tax or not depends on a number of personal circumstances; among other things, have you actually emigrated (181 days criterion and center of existence), has a pension been accrued in the public or private sector? Do you receive AOW or other income from the Netherlands? including rental of real estate, etc.,
In summary, if you are no longer a resident of the Netherlands, you no longer pay social security contributions, but you may still pay IB. If you no longer pay social contributions, you can no longer participate in basic insurance. This also makes sense, because this insurance is subsidized by the government (social premiums!). It is of course possible (subject to acceptance) to take out insurance with various insurance companies that also reimburses medical costs for people living abroad. The premium is then considerably higher. The confusion arises on this subject because the concept of emigration is not clear. You encounter this during censuses, but also when 'emigration' is the criterion for rights and obligations. I based my calculations on the principles used by the tax authorities. Kind regards, Guus
global-migration.info
gr.haazet
Belgians who have been deregistered are required to register in Thailand, it is completely free and they are regularly informed by email or text message. The health insurance then only applies when staying in Belgium!
Taxes continue to be deducted in Belgium, but reduced!
I think I recently read on the blog that, according to the Dutch Embassy, approximately 15.000 Dutch people have settled in Thailand, of which, to my surprise, approximately 5.000 in the Pattaya region.
I am afraid that the number of Dutch people who live here in Thailand can no longer be counted.
Some live here permanently like me, and some for a shorter period.
But in the Thai municipality ( Amphur ) where I live , I already know 5 myself .
And I live in a simple hamlet called Pasang, not far from Chiangmai.
Sometimes when I go somewhere on my bike eg Big C or something in Hangdong or Chiangmai.
Then I recognize and see many Dutch people staying here.
As I wrote before I wouldn't like to have them all for coffee.
Since my plot is certainly too small .
But there are in total in Thailand, count on many thousands.
I therefore think that the Dutch Embassy in Bangkok has no idea how many there are.
Some register with the Embassy like me , but others think differently .
Jan Beute.
The question cannot be answered if you do not first define what you mean by an emigrated Dutchman.
Is that someone who officially has a residential address in Thailand and has been deregistered from the Netherlands?
Someone who no longer has any financial interests (real estate, car, rented house) in the Netherlands?
Someone who no longer pays tax in the Netherlands, of any kind?
In your question you link emigration to no longer having to return to the Netherlands because of health insurance. That doesn't seem like a good link to me.
Most expats in Thailand come from neighboring Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar. Then the Japanese and the Chinese follow. Although they stand out the most in the streetscape, the 'white' expats in this country are by far in the minority.
Whatever figures are used above, it is always a combination of real emigrants (= deregistered in the Netherlands, like me) and all other fellow citizens who stay here 'longer'. Retired people play an important role, but there are also many non-retired people who stay here for a long time for all kinds of other reasons, eg as an 'assignee' for NL or other companies.
The question is only about 'real emigrants', but we all know that there are many who live here almost all year round but have not been deregistered in the Netherlands, mainly because of health insurance.
It is impossible to give a reliable figure of those who live here (almost) permanently. They are always questionable estimates. And where do you draw the line, at 6 months + 1 day? Is it 5.000, 10.000, 15.000? I suspect that the last figure is quite close to the '6 months + 1 day' reality.
There is also talk of 'registration at the embassy'. That is a misleading name. Although the voluntary registration takes place via the embassy, the file is managed in NL – not by the embassy – and the data can be used by all Dutch government services (read the registration conditions). Although I have nothing to hide, I have absolutely no need for this 'Big Brother' approach and have therefore not registered (but still get all the information; guess how is that possible?).
Dear MACB, I have sometimes wondered what sense or use it might have to register as a NL deregistered person at the Amb in BKK. All the more so since I am already known to all other authorities such as the tax authorities. Now you say the same thing that you are not registered with the Amb, but that you nevertheless receive information. What is that then, I wonder? What does the Amb send you, and many other NL residents in TH don't? And: how important is that information? Perhaps you can clarify for me (and us)? With thanks!
Yes, widely known (I think), but the stated purpose = 'important announcements, especially during emergencies' is different. I had been registered with the embassy for years and I suspect that they just adopted the old 'Bangkok list'. I have never received information that I could not have thought of myself, e.g. 'avoid (parts of) Bangkok because there are demonstrations', whereby the 'parts' are usually also stated in Bangkokian secret language (= only for insiders), or 'the embassy is closed because an artificial cow has fallen into the water' (I would like to have such a cow from the embassy garden; beautiful & typically Dutch). In any case, you will not get useful information from the Netherlands for expats.
If there are real problems, you can still see if you register (via the website, I believe). For the rest, look at the website of, for example, the Bangkok Post; I have it as my 'home page'. I also get the daily newspaper, but usually don't have time to read it.
The situation for our southern neighbors is completely different. The Belgian embassy is their 'town hall' and offers a whole range of services. Strange that we are so behind, or not really, because the NL government / governments have essentially wanted nothing to do with expats for years, and treat us even less than stepchildren, except when Big Brother comes out. On to the Malieveld!
OK, but you initially say that you have nothing to do with a big brother attitude that you attribute to the Dutch government, and that registration data is supplied to government services. For example, the tax authorities? SVB? UWV? What does it matter, they already have the data anyway. You wonder how people got your data, while in the second instance you report that you were registered for years. Weird, how is that possible? You did it yourself, I think. Anyway, what I'm curious about is when and how you noticed that the Dutch government is acting like big brother? What escapes other people's and my perception?
It used to be registered at the embassy, and stayed there. Fine. Now the data goes directly to NL where it can be used for all kinds of 'Big Brother' things; read the current registration conditions. I have no need for that at all and see this as unjustified reuse of data provided for security reasons. It is a matter of principle related to data privacy.
I officially emigrated to Thailand on March 26, 2014 (I have of course been there a few times before) and I still have to discover how things work. I thought I already knew this, the situation is as follows: I am (still) a civil servant, I have left Concern Rotterdam with "severance arrangement" (on leave until 01-10-2015) and will (probably, only if that is on balance is the best/ yields the most) on 01-10-2015 with the Multi-Option Pension (ABP) (I will be 02 on 07-2015-60). I had thought that if I officially lived in Thailand, I would no longer be liable to pay tax in the Netherlands (both during my employment contract until 01-10-2015, during my (Optional) pension and during/after my state pension age (66+9 months or 67? or 67+?). Now it appears that the opinions (at my current employer Concern Rotterdam/at the Tax Authorities/etc.) differ on this. I would (maybe?) still be liable to pay tax in the Netherlands/ have to pay income tax on earnings from government funds, so both from my current salary and from future Multi-Option Pension (and also from AOW in the further future????)…
Dear Frans, if you have formally and officially deregistered yourself at the municipal office, dept GBA, which is now called BRP (basic registration of persons), then it concerns. message the tax authorities, and also your ABP. You don't have to do anything yourself. You will receive a proof of deregistration with a date of departure from the BRP department. You have also provided your address in TH.
It then takes a while, sometimes a few months, before you receive a message from both the tax authorities and the ABP.
The ABP will indicate that you do have to pay payroll tax, but no longer have to pay social security contributions, after all, due to your deregistration you are no longer entitled to benefits from the NL social security system. Furthermore, from 2014 you will be faced with an AOW discount of 2% per year. In your case, this can therefore amount to at least 14%, after all, you are only 58 years old at the time of departure.
How much payroll tax is withheld depends on how much pension benefit you receive, and later on in combination with an AOW amount. 1rd disc.
You will receive a refund of the excess social security contributions for 2014 from the Tax and Customs Administration in 2015.
This is done after completing and sending a so-called M-form, a whole pack of paper, which is sent to you by the tax authorities at your Thai address. The Tax and Customs Administration thus has the address of the GBA department, as said. See further for the discussion about pension funds and taxes: https://www.thailandblog.nl/lezersvraag/bedrijfspensioen-wel-niet-belastingplichtig-thailand/
But most of the information can nevertheless be found on the site of the Tax and Customs Administration, and of course at the ABP.
can you immigrate too? Dutch people who return annually to enjoy all the (social) benefits do not emigrate. They also simply pay taxes, etc., have a home address and are registered. Emigration really separates you from the Netherlands: No more home address. Deal with the tax authorities and apply for exemption in connection with a tax treaty or avoid double taxation. So also cancel the health insurance. That is REAL emigration. Unreal is just taking a long vacation…..