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Home » Reader question » How is dementia of foreigners dealt with in Thailand?
How is dementia of foreigners dealt with in Thailand?
Dear readers,
Since the majority of foreigners present in Thailand are elderly, there is a risk of dementia occurring.
My question is: How is dementia of foreigners dealt with? Is returning to the home country the only option?
Please answer from practice.
Regards,
French
Frans asks for answers from practice, but does not give any information why he is asking this. Well, in practice: there is no government shelter and in Thaikand it is everyone for themselves, so you are dependent on loved ones. What those decisions may differ, but the common Thai practice is that if it concerns family, care is taken at home until the end. Never heard or read of returning to the Netherlands, so yes that will be the practice that this usually does not happen. When we talk about dementia, you can also expand the group to alcoholics-to-their-death with the associated decline that resembles dementia; I see examples of this in Thailand.
I deliberately chose a broad question to see if there are other approaches than those described by Hans van Mourik below.
It concerns someone without a partner, but family in the Netherlands.
I feel no obligation to take on this kind of caregiving, I am still reasonably healthy, but have to take it easy.
I know from close proximity how Thai people deal with dementia patients. Even someone who was chained up at night because there was a busy road nearby. That's what killed him anyway.
Dear Frans, in Hans van Mourik's response you can also read that 5 years passed at the time of his help and death. Yes, this is an example of a long period in which problems arose from the start for Hans as an outsider, let alone for the family, and then at least 5 years day and night. Personally, I think it would be better to decide to transfer the single person to the Netherlands, by the way, I wonder how you would manage that with someone who is not in favor of this, even if there is a problem.
I helped someone with dementia 5 years ago.
Here in Changmai, but he lived with his girlfriend just outside Changmai.
Yesterday I received the message from his girlfriend that he died on 06-01.
Maybe I didn't act then but tell me anyway.
His girlfriend then informed me that there was mail from the SVB, pension, the bank.
If I could help her. (Knew he is demented).
First looked at that mail and then asked for all his papers (big mess).
Sweet for hours.
First called the SVB, they know how that goes from someone else, they don't let anything go.
So I did something that was not allowed, asked for his passport there I see all his data.
When the SVB called with that person's name (so I'm him)
his girlfriend wanted his benefits to go directly to his account in Thailand.
I don't know how to do that so ask.
Wrote a letter for him and had him sign it.
The same goes for his retirement.
He had lost his pin code with the bank, so a new pin code was requested.
After months of correspondence back and forth by letter, everything is settled.
Knows that he still has money in his savings account, but can't transfer it to his account, he can't do internet banking.
But I did put all his correspondence I did on my computer and gave his girlfriend a USB stick.
End conclusion.
Intellectually speaking, he actually has to go back, because when I talked about it then, he got terribly angry, started to hit me too, luckily I remained calm, he listens to his girlfriend reasonably well, but she doesn't want to lose him either, I suspect he take care of her, she takes good care of him.
But I am also a person with feelings, thought it was sad for them.
I still thought strongly about asking the Dutch Embassy for advice, but I didn't do it.
Stood for a dilemma.
Hans van Mourik.
As you describe it, I think you have chosen the right path Hans. What would he have in the Netherlands? Now he has stayed here and taken care of.
I think you did the right thing Hans, here he was probably treated more humanely than in the Netherlands, where there are too few and incompetent staff, not to mention the too often absent family
The end justifies the means.
I hope there are more such people.
Actually, Belgians and Dutch should arrange this in advance with each other.
But hey, who can you trust?
Most people are not like you, Hans.
CHAPEAU!
My friend has been living in Thailand for years and has been completely dependent on help for care, transportation and food for over ten years now. This after an accident with serious permanent injuries. Although he can be gruff in character due to his misery, he has been lovingly cared for all these years by his live-in girlfriend. A care that he cannot possibly enjoy in Belgium, given the workload in the care sector, not to mention the accommodation costs.
I regret that he stubbornly refuses to marry this lovely lady, so that she could enjoy some kind of pension if he "departs".
Of course, a Thai partner has an interest in taking good care of her loved one, so the pension will continue to come. But just for the money, something like that can't be sustained. There is their way of life according to Buddha which makes them fulfill this sacrificial task with love!
I think that most of us, who have finally said goodbye to our homeland, do not dream of returning as a demented person to a small room somewhere in a home.
We have to accept that our life is finite. And for many, this may be in Thailand.
As Ger wrote, if dementia is manifest, then you depend on your loved ones. Can an arrangement be made for visa extension, banking, health insurance, etc. I really wouldn't know.
Perhaps there are blog members who have experienced something like this up close and can lift a corner of that veil. Dementia appears to be an insidious disease from bad to worse, if this happens to you, to what extent are you still mentally competent to decide to return to the home country. Even if you are perfectly healthy, returning is sometimes difficult, because the ships there have been burned, let alone in such a situation with the syndrome of dementia. It is not mathematics, so an unequivocal answer is impossible, a decision will have to be made per situation, depending on the progressive clinical picture, often by others…
Hans van Mourik says.
He was at home and his girlfriend in the bathroom.
When she finished, he was on the floor.
She then called the ambulance, after the ambulance was there, a doctor with a police officer also arrived later.
You have to because only a doctor can declare you dead.
Maybe not good what I said, but it's better that he died.
What if he had an attack and survived, then there were even more problems.
Does not have ZKV and really rosy financially.
Hans van Mourik
Hans van Mourik says.
Here in Changmai, you also have a nursing home.
Been 2 years ago, tour + information.
Dementia complete care separate building, with camera surveillance if the patient is present in the room, all doors close.
If the patient wants to go to recreation, all doors can also close there.
Costs then 43000 Th.B.P/M room and board.
Western breakfast in the morning, choice of Western lunch, also in the evening.
they go somewhere voluntarily once a week, sometimes for a walk.
Visa against payment is arranged for you, they keep track of it.
Pay for diaper medicines yourself.
Hans van Mourik
Have seen advertisements in the past (I think in “Der Farang”) from private institutions for western elderly people.
They may also do something for western demented elderly people. You could ask the editors of this magazine for addresses.
By the way, there are indeed homes for Thai elderly people in Thailand, possibly private, I don't know.
There is such a home in Banglamung (Chonburi).
I once read that in dementia language skills decrease to only the mother tongue. For many of the readers here, that will be Dutch/Flemish.
Is there no communication at all if you are used to speaking Thai or English with the partner? It is already difficult for people with dementia who occasionally have a clear moment to say something. And will that be zero?
And does it matter where I am?
To return to the question: I think Ger is right. The family has to take care of the reception and care, but also the paperwork. So arrange everything in time and signal a reliable friend to arrange it with the partner if you are no longer able to do that yourself.
Years ago I saw a documentary on the German channel about a home for the elderly for Germans. That all looked very good. The care was loving. Incidentally, this topic has been discussed before. With a little googling you can get a bit further…
https://www.thailandblog.nl/lezersvraag/verzorgingshuis-bejaarden-bangkok/
In Mae Rim (located about 20 km from Chiang Mai) a former resort has been converted into a care resort for people with dementia. They can live here with their partner. The name is Away. There is also a geriatric hospital in Chiang Mai. Perhaps they can help you further.
Every time I am in Thailand I visit someone. He is demented. The situation is getting worse. Until at some point the carer can no longer reasonably do her job. Then he goes to a state hospital. The situation is not getting better. This will continue for some time until we inform the hospital that the money has run out. This message apparently got there well. The next day I received a phone call that the person had passed away. All papers arranged, and cremation done.
The above is a brief account of an actual situation recently. The situation was hopeless and the impression was that the hospital only wanted to earn as much as possible from it. Research here, medicine there. The bill simply cannot be checked.
Conclusion: If you are demented, you are at the mercy of your loved ones. But that is also the case in the Netherlands.
A while ago I saw a program on German TV about a house, aimed at Swiss dementia / Alzheimer's sufferers, somewhere around ChMai (maybe what HvM calls it) where they have a much better (read: Thai personal) home at a much lower cost. received care.
There are 2 options: either your Thai partner takes care of you, or you end up in an institution. In both cases it costs money. Knew a man, completely child, 1 x a year with the whole Thai family to the embassy for the statement of his life, and possibly passport renewal. The money buffalo was well cared for.
If there is not enough money, it ends quite quickly: sooner or later there will be overstay and people (because it concerns a sick person) will contact the embassy, who will then contact the next of kin. He will then have to take steps.
I've been there 3x, of which 1 x with good knowledge I call him Jan 1 leg.
The manager is a woman from California (San Franciso).
I also told her that I had Google translate the folders I received from her into Dutch.
When she saw it she wanted to make a copy of it, of course handed over.
The site consists of 4 buildings.
!) recreation room.
2) People who want to need temporary care Ongoing patient,
or for sure, but can reasonably save themselves.
3) building for people who have had an attack 24. hour care.
4) People who are demented or Alzheimer's (don't know the difference).
There is also a state hospital right on the large grounds, I also visited her.
What struck me were only foreign patients..
I talked to her about it, if something is wrong with me, I want to go to the RAM because I have a ZKV, that's possible, but most people go here because of the price.
Why did I do this, because my family has dementia and knows what it is.
For those who are interested, here's the website.
http://www.mckean.or.th/?page_id=10
Hans van Mourik
Answer for French.
I had also spoken to an old Swedish woman there, behind a walker, but not demented.
Asked if she lives here, almost does and how she got here.
Her son who lives in Sweden has sent her here for care.
As Jan de Hollander I immediately asked what it costs.
Didn't she know her son rule everything.
So if there is someone who solves the financial part, I think it should be possible to solve it.
I think maybe this woman just needs help for showering, getting to bed..
Also ask the manager what it costs for this person.
35000 Th.B. P.M
Hans van Mourik.
Elderly people staying in TH would do well to take a look at their family history of illness. If close relatives (brothers/sisters) and/or uncles/aunts/nephews/nieces a little further away suffer from dementia (or any other disease or disorder), then it can be safely assumed that you are more sensible to that ailment/disease/condition as well. going to develop. Of course: all instinctive, but not unreliable.
My advice is therefore: if you find yourself in such a situation, make good agreements with your TH partner, put those agreements on paper if necessary, inform a good acquaintance/friend, etc.
Do not forget to authorize someone to arrange your banking affairs if necessary. Or: switch to an en/or bank on your TH partner, for example, so that she/he can continue (internet) banking. Or: make sure in advance that the SVB and pension fund pay all the benefits into a TH and/or bank account each month.
The TH Immigration is the last one that will not cooperate: if a person with dementia cannot/will not go to their office, they will come home to arrange the paperwork. As long as someone meets the conditions, there is no problem. So make sure there are no obstacles in this area in the long term.
Dear Frits and others.
Dementia occurs in my own family, so I think I can detect the beginning of this in the person in question. In addition, he becomes suspicious of third parties.
He will certainly not voluntarily hand over his banking affairs, at most (compellingly) ask to arrange other paperwork for him.
However, he also refuses to give the contact details of his immediate family in the Netherlands.
I have decided for myself to keep my distance, this is going to be a downhill road with no end in sight.
For chronically ill Dutch people, this is for information.
https://www.zorginstituutnederland.nl/Verzekerde+zorg/l/leveringsvormen-instelling-vpt-mpt-en-pgb-wlz
The Salvation Army is also active in Thailand, for example for homeless farang, of course there is a short line with the Thai tourist police