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Emigrate to Thailand and my WAO?

By Submitted Message
Posted in Reader question
Tags: ,
July 10, 2019

Dear readers,

I have been on disability benefits for 18 years, rejected 80/100. I am married to a Thai girl, she has been living in the Netherlands for 11 years. We are planning to emigrate to Thailand.

What do I have to prepare and will I continue to have my WAO? Are there any other things I should watch out for?

Greetings,

Glass

Number of times read: 489

32 responses to “Emigrating to Thailand and my disability benefits?”

  1. January says up
    10 July 2019 on 11: 44

    on the internet it says at the UWV where you have to adhere to and what you have to do, everything is there you can also call with questions to the UWV about emigrating, whether your benefits will be reduced, etc.
    I would say find out first, what you can also do is register with someone in the Netherlands, then you still have all your rights, and come back once a year to arrange all your postal matters.

    I would think about it very carefully, Thailand is changing very much, the bath is now very low at 34.5, so it is now much more expensive, you think you are cheap, but you are wrong about that.

    • Peter says up
      10 July 2019 on 13: 04

      Do not register with anyone, take someone's postal address. Not easy but possible, I've had it for 20 years

      • French Nico says up
        10 July 2019 on 16: 37

        SVB actively checks, also by means of home visits. personally experienced. Applies both with a postal address and with registration with another. Moreover, registration with someone else is regarded as cohabitation, both by the SVB and by the Tax and Customs Administration.

        • Peter says up
          10 July 2019 on 19: 14

          Yes, it is checked for correctness. Also experienced.

        • Lammert de Haan says up
          10 July 2019 on 19: 34

          The addition “as by the Tax and Customs Administration” is an unfortunate choice.

          This remains without consequences for the Tax Authorities. Merely “living together” does not qualify as tax partners. In addition, even if there are tax partners, they are also independent subjects for income tax purposes: everyone has to deal with their own situation. The advantage of being tax partners is limited to being able to distribute deductions in a favorable manner, such as allocating the deductions in whole or in part to the highest income. But you don't have to deal with that when living in Thailand.

          • French Nico says up
            11 July 2019 on 10: 17

            In certain cases, the partners cannot choose, but the “choice” results from legal provisions. In addition, the Tax and Customs Administration pays the allowances. So my addition is not that "unfortunate".

            • Lammert de Haan says up
              11 July 2019 on 14: 05

              Dear Frans Nico, I have the impression that you have not properly understood my earlier response or cannot sufficiently fathom it. That is why I am now posting some more detailed information.

              you can never choose to be each other's tax partners when you live in the Netherlands if you do not meet one of the conditions. This is fully defined in the Income Tax Act 2001.

              For example, you are each other's tax partners if you are married or have entered into a registered partnership.

              In addition, you are tax partners with a housemate if you meet 1 of the following conditions:
              • you are both adults and have entered into a notarial cohabitation contract together.
              • you have a child together.
              • One of you has recognized a child of the other.
              • you are registered with a pension fund as pension partners.
              • you jointly own your own home in which you both live.
              • you are both adults and a minor child of one of you is also registered at your address (composed family).
              Does this situation apply to you? But do you rent out part of your home to the person with whom you are registered at the same address? If you are renting on business grounds, you are not tax partners. You must have a written rental agreement.
              • You are an adult and live with a minor child in a shelter home or a house for sheltered housing that you received under the Social Support Act 2015. You live in that home together with an adult who, according to the municipality, is also registered at that address.
              Do you not want to be tax partners with that person? Then you must submit a request for this together. You must also meet a number of conditions.
              • You were already tax partners the year before.

              But if you live in Thailand, living together and being (tax) partners plays no role at all for the Tax Authorities. Just fill in a C form. Then you will soon receive the message on your screen that no questions will be asked about a partner.

              Hence my comment regarding the sentence you posted: “In addition, registration with someone else is regarded as cohabitation, both by the SVB AND BY THE TAX AUTHORITIES.” Unlike with regard to the SVB in the context of the AOW benefit, cohabitation in Thailand and what the question is about, therefore has no consequences whatsoever for the Tax Authorities (and is therefore an unfortunate comment/addition, because this does mean suggested, especially now that this takes place in the same breath as the mention of the SVB!).

              Your comment: “In addition, the Tax and Customs Administration pays the benefits” is again an extremely unfortunate choice. After all, the question is about “emigrating to Thailand”. In this context, how do you see the role of the Tax and Customs Administration with regard to the payment of allowances?

              That role is totally missing. For example, you cannot take your rent and healthcare allowance with you to Thailand. In the context of benefits, you will come to live in Thailand, so you will not come into contact with the tax authorities at all!

              • French Nico says up
                12 July 2019 on 01: 15

                The suggestion that I "just roar" is unfounded. The point is about a postal address in the Netherlands or registering at an address with someone else in the Netherlands. I mentioned the consequence of that. If Klaas registers at an address of someone in the Netherlands, Klaas makes it appear as if he and his wife live in the Netherlands. Klaas is therefore still a tax resident of the Netherlands and not of Thailand. If he succeeds in doing so, Klaas is “entitled” to benefits, such as the health care benefit. The allowances are paid by the Tax and Customs Administration. Again, that's not an "unfortunate" comment.

                Sharing a home with someone else can have tax consequences. That can be for Klaas, but also for the residents who already live at that address. There are enough examples of that. I need not elaborate further on that. The topic is not intended to hold a tax law workshop. And Lammert, with sarcastic remarks nonsense does not make sense…..

                • Lammert de Haan says up
                  12 July 2019 on 23: 21

                  Dear Frans Nico, I have just read my reactions to it, but I do not find anywhere that I would have said that you are just roaring. You put this in quotes and you're quoting me. But, contrary to what you suggest/quote, you are not quoting my words and it is therefore a correct or not correct conclusion of your own.

                  I find your remark about Klaas “making it appear as if he still lives in the Netherlands with his wife” to be highly inappropriate. The same applies to your follow-up. Klaas's question does not give any reason to do so and let us therefore stick to the wish expressed by him for emigration to Thailand. An open channel like Thailand Blog is not a channel to consciously or unconsciously encourage someone to commit fraud or to allude to it or to speculate about it now that Klaas has no reason to do so. Any comment in that direction is out of the question. And that you mentioned the consequences, as you say, is far from the truth. We are talking about fraud here! In addition to reclaiming what has been wrongly obtained, a hefty fine will hang over his head upon discovery (if it remains an administrative fine and is not jacked up to criminal law!).

                  Your response to which I responded next reads:
                  “SVB actively checks, also by means of home visits. personally experienced. Applies both with a postal address and with registration with another. Moreover, registration with someone else is regarded as cohabitation, both by the SVB and by the Tax Authorities.”

                  I initially qualified this reaction as “unlucky choice” but in reality it makes no sense!

                  Can you explain to me what the SVB has to do with this now that the questioner Klaas has not yet reached the state pension age? Will the SVB then visit his postal address to inspect his mail (and thereby act in violation of Article 13 of the Constitution)? I can hardly imagine!

                  The SVB allows Klaas to “live together” (by the way, he is married to a Thai). Or do you see it differently?

                  Incidentally, I prefer to speak of a “home address” and a “postal address”. With this I am in line with the legal concepts and everything becomes a bit clearer. Let's avoid making our own legal provisions. This quickly leads to misunderstandings or a confusion of tongues.

                  The definition of a residential address is:

                  “Article 1.1 BRP
                  o. the residential address:
                  1° the address where the person concerned lives, including the address of a home that is located in a vehicle or vessel, if the vehicle or vessel has a permanent base or berth, or, if the person concerned lives at more than one address, the address where it is reasonable to expect that he will stay the most times during six months;
                  2° the address where, in the absence of an address as referred to under 1, the person concerned can reasonably be expected to spend the night at least two-thirds of the time during three months;

                  The definition of a postal address is:

                  “Article 1.1 BRP:
                  p. the postal address: the address where written documents intended for the person concerned are received;
                  …………..
                  r. the letter addresser: the natural or legal person, referred to in Article 2.42, who provides a letter address;

                  Klaas has clearly indicated that he wants to emigrate to Thailand. In that case, maintaining a residential address is not an issue. There could be a (more or less temporary) postal address in the Netherlands in case he cannot yet provide a home address in Thailand and he also does not have access to a PO box there. Furthermore, a home address or postal address only applies to 'snowbirds'. But that is not Klaas and let's grant him that right too!

                  With regard to emigration and deregistration from the municipality, the BRP states:

                  “Article 2.43
                  • 1. A resident who is reasonably expected to stay outside the Netherlands for at least two-thirds of the time during a year must submit a written declaration of departure to the mayor and aldermen of the municipality before his departure from the Netherlands. The declaration period starts on the fifth day before the day of departure.”

                  Then, in addition to your reference to the SVB, I cannot place the reference to the Tax Authorities in the following sentence:
                  “Moreover, registration with someone else is regarded as cohabitation, both by the SVB and by the Tax and Customs Administration”, pointing afterwards to the benefits.

                  In addition to my above explanation regarding the SVB, I have already explained to you that living in Thailand has nothing to do with being (tax) partners as far as the Tax Authorities are concerned. Klaas is married and, I assume, lives together, but that does not play any role from a tax point of view. In addition, I have already indicated that you cannot take your allowances with you to Thailand. But maybe you see this all differently.

                  Conclusion:
                  a. cohabitation is known to the SVB but has no consequences (this is also not checked as he is married and does not even receive an AOW benefit);
                  b. cohabitation also plays no role as far as the Tax Authorities are concerned;
                  c. the allowances will be stopped immediately after emigration (because that is what Klaas is only talking about and therefore without fraud);
                  d. In the year after emigration, Klaas has to file an income tax return using the infamous Model-M (a paper return of 50 pages with more than 100 pages of explanation);
                  e. I expect that he will subsequently no longer receive an invitation from the Tax Authorities to file a tax return;
                  f. he may still be able to expect settlement decisions from the Tax Authorities regarding the allowances, but this will most likely end his contact with the Tax Authorities

                • French Nico says up
                  13 July 2019 on 09: 56

                  Dear Lambert,

                  My responses were in response to other responses, NOT to Klaas's question.

                  In quotation marks it means something else. It is only a quote if it is preceded by a colon. So it doesn't mean I'm quoting anything.

                  For the rest, I will not go into your "epistle". That turns out to be a pointless exercise. Good luck.

  2. Renee Martin says up
    10 July 2019 on 12: 36

    Administratively, of course, as Jan also says. If you get permission from the UWV, your benefit will be paid gross and you will become taxable in Thailand. In addition, you no longer accrue AOW rights and you cannot, for example, take your health insurance with you. Do not forget to look at, for example, the visa requirements and other things in Thailand. Success with it.

    • French Nico says up
      10 July 2019 on 16: 30

      In addition to the fact that Klaas no longer builds up AOW, this also applies to his wife. Having lived in the Netherlands for 11 years, she has now accrued 22% AOW.

      In addition, the partner allowance for the AOW no longer exists. So if his wife is younger than Klaas, he will only receive 50% of the minimum wage after retirement and his wife, if she leaves for Thailand now and reaches retirement age, will only receive 22% of 50% of the minimum wage.

      If they were both already pensionable now, their joint AOW would be only 72% of the minimum wage. At the moment that would be € 637,94 for Klaas and € 140,35 for his wife, together € 778,29 net per month. In addition, Klaas will no longer receive any allowances immediately after departure to Thailand. But because Klaas has not yet reached retirement age, he will not reach 50 years of pension accrual and the joint AOW will be even lower. What is Wisdom? Look before you leap.

    • Lammert de Haan says up
      10 July 2019 on 18: 15

      That's not correct, Rene Martin.

      Although the Netherlands has concluded a treaty with Thailand to prevent double taxation, this treaty makes no mention of social security benefits, including state pension and disability benefits. There is also no so-called “residual article”, in which the provision is included that income not mentioned by name in the Treaty may be taxed in the source country (in this case the Netherlands), or (usually) in the country of residence (in this case). case of Thailand).

      In the absence of a treaty provision, national law applies to the Netherlands. This means that the Netherlands, as the source country, taxes the AOW and WAO benefits.

      But what applies to the Netherlands also applies to Thailand. Thai tax law is also based on taxing the worldwide income of its residents. Due to the lack of a treaty provision regarding social security benefits, Thailand as a country of residence may also levy tax on these benefits, even if they are received from across the border. After all, you do not enjoy treaty protection, indicating which country is authorized to levy and which country has granted an exemption or reduction for this.

      Read what the Thai Revenue Department has to say about this:

      “Taxable Person

      Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A nonresident
      is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.”

      In addition, Klaas must take into account that he has to pay the main price in the Netherlands in payroll tax/income tax. From 1 January 2015 you are no longer entitled to tax credits when living in Thailand, among other places. That costs him more than 1 month of benefits per year.

      • Renee Martin says up
        12 July 2019 on 16: 49

        In Thailand you have to pay tax if you are on disability benefits when you stay more than 181 days. I've never heard of double taxation.

        • Lammert de Haan says up
          13 July 2019 on 00: 22

          That's the first time for you, Rene Martin.

          Incidentally, if you yourself would enjoy a WAO benefit when living in Thailand, you should have discovered long ago that the Netherlands also levies on this. This can only be different until January 1, 2019, if the UWV has wrongly applied the tax credits while this has not been discovered by the Tax Authorities. In that case you were pretty lucky, although I know countless Dutch people living abroad who have also escaped the dance. If you live in Thailand, for example, the tax credits have already expired on 1 January 2015.

          From 1 January 2019, no institution may apply the tax credits if you live outside the Netherlands. If you believe you are entitled to this, you must apply for a provisional assessment. The Tax and Customs Administration will then grant you the tax credits. But applying for a provisional assessment on this ground is a completely unwholesome thing when living in Thailand.

  3. Ger Korat says up
    10 July 2019 on 12: 46

    Do not forget that once you are deregistered you will no longer accrue state pension, the same applies to your wife. Then voluntarily pay premiums for up to 10 years or settle for a lower state pension in the future. WAO stops when you have reached your state pension age.

  4. RuudB says up
    10 July 2019 on 14: 48

    Dear Klaas, I assume that you are over 50 years old, otherwise you don't have to start. You ask: what should I do and can I take my WAO with me? Well, when you first apply for a visa you will already be faced with the question of whether you will enter as an early retiree. Not so, which immediately gives you one less argument. You should therefore carefully investigate which type of visa you want to use to get to TH, and then apply for your extensions there. Take plenty of time to study Ronny LatYa's Thailand Visa file. See on the left side of this page under: Files.
    Read in particular which income requirements Thailand sets, and whether you can meet those income requirements.

    If you want to emigrate to TH as a WAO recipient, you take your benefit with you. Please contact the UWV about this. This is mandatory if you want to go abroad while retaining benefits. Read: https://perspectief.uwv.nl/artikelen/arbeidsongeschiktheidsuitkering-meenemen-naar-het-buitenland
    On: https://www.uwv.nl/particulieren/internationaal/met-uitkering-naar-buitenland you find the same lyrics. You could have looked it all up yourself.

    Please note: your departure has more consequences for your AOW later than for your WAO now. You do not state how old you are, but you would like to receive a state pension for longer than you currently have a disability benefit. Every year that you leave the Netherlands you accrue an AOW discount of 2% per year. For example: if you are now 62 years old, you will receive 5% of your AOW amount in 90 years. If you are younger than 62, the discount will be greater.
    In any case, you will not receive a single state pension because you are married (this is also the case in the Netherlands from the age of 67). Your wife is expected to have earning capacity. Also in TH! So you will be well below the current WAO amount. Your wife will eventually receive 22% AOW from her partner's share because she has lived in the Netherlands for 11 years. A partner's share is now approximately Eur 850 per month. So calculate yourself.
    See further: https://www.svb.nl/int/nl/aow/zoek.jsp?q=aow+wonen+in+buitenland

    What else should you pay attention to? In TH you take care of your own health insurance. You have to deal with high premiums. Because you are in the WAO you will have to deal with many exclusions.

    For the rest, it is no different than for any non-retired person. The Euro yields less than used/desired. Provide a (well-stocked) piggy bank. But beware: money is very popular in TH. Don't play the Sinterklaas, don't be a sugar daddy, first look the cat out of the tree. Click on this link: https://www.thailandblog.nl/?s=WAO&x=29&y=14

    • janbeute says up
      10 July 2019 on 16: 45

      What is forgotten to mention is that you can voluntarily continue to pay your AOW premium yourself for a maximum of 10 years.
      I also did when I stopped working, in my case I only miss 2 years, so 4%.

      Jan Beute.

      • RuudB says up
        12 July 2019 on 09: 50

        That is only for the wealthy. Current voluntary contribution is around 18% of annual income p.yr. Suppose you have a WAO of Eur 15000 p. jr. Then the premium will be around Eur 2700.
        Suppose you want to do that for 5 years: Eur 13500. What do you get in return with that low AOW partner share benefit? https://www.svb.nl/nl/vv/ Click through yourself of course.

  5. l.low size says up
    10 July 2019 on 15: 36

    Two important things!

    -You do not write your age, which is important for the future financial picture. (income)

    -The admission requirement to Thailand is a demonstrable income of 65.000 Baht (approximately 1850 euros) pm
    There goes from rent and health insurance 2 people!

    Apart from other costs, this will be a tight budget to live on.

    • Bert says up
      11 July 2019 on 08: 57

      Don't think that many would clap their hands if they had 65.000 Thb per month to spend.

      By the way, he writes “married to a Thai”, then the requirement is still Thb 40.000
      You can make a good living from that if you lead a normal life without drugs and rock 'n roll

      Will tell you that we do not digest that every month here, but we do not have living expenses outside of the electricity and water bill.

  6. Hannes says up
    11 July 2019 on 07: 47

    I think Klaas has become a little sad after reading all this. ( Me too, by the way, I also toyed with the idea of ​​leaving for Thailand before my retirement date )

    • French Nico says up
      11 July 2019 on 10: 27

      Still possible, as long as you keep your own base in the Netherlands and come back regularly. You just go on holiday to Thailand for about six months every year. But then your income must allow it.

      I lived in Spain for 15 years, but kept my base in the Netherlands. Had no problem with my state pension or other tax problems and neither did my Thai wife. I too was 100% entitled to WAO in the years before my retirement. As long as you don't break "all ties" with the Netherlands.

  7. Frank says up
    11 July 2019 on 22: 27

    I have WIA, and am 50, and married to a Thai.
    My (marriage) visa for Thailand was no problem, I just needed a statement from my bank.
    The UWV only provides documents in Dutch (??)

    Of course I have been in contact with the tax authorities.

    The benefit is taxed in the Netherlands, given the treaty, Thailand may not also tax it.
    Wage tax, regardless of the original source, remains payroll tax.

    The social premiums will lapse. (Over 28%)
    I do assume that I will pay payroll tax on that 28% "more income" 🙂
    The disappearance of the tax credit and all deductions is a painful one.

    My benefit is not corrected with the so-called country factor. (Thailand 0.4)
    An old age pension is!!
    Emigration means you want to stay there.
    Of course I no longer accrue disability benefits.
    The 30 to 40% that I get less is almost negligible. AOW of 1000 becomes 400 euros
    IPV 400 I receive +/- 250..
    That's right, 150 less per month.
    Continuing to pay the premium is an option, but not deductible??

    Fortunately, my real pension remains the same, no country factor.

    Medication that I (unfortunately) need (I'm not in the WIA for my sweaty feet) are a fraction of the price here in NL.
    Often I don't even submit the bills now.
    Here 3 euros, in NL €120,-
    I continue to be amazed how this is possible with exactly the same medicines.
    That 375 personal contribution is then good to do 🙂

    I was "ready for it" (planning as of 1 – 1 - 2020), but with the information that tax credits and deductions are no longer possible, emigration is a major loss.

    Call the IRS tomorrow.
    It would be net 300 per month less for me.
    That is of course not the intention.

  8. Frank says up
    12 July 2019 on 09: 42

    LOL

    We can't make it any easier… (more confusing though)

    A search on the IRS site gives 36.65% and 38.10% as income tax.
    3 phone calls later there is finally someone who can tell me that this includes the 27.65% national insurance. (2019)

    Assuming that the income is € 34.300, you pay 20.384% tax up to € 9 and above that 10.45% tax.
    above € 34.300 you pay no premiums, but everything as tax, = 38.10% (up to 68.508)

    To maintain the € 34.300, this is € 3.260 in tax and € 9.354 in premium = € 21.686 in the Netherlands.
    in Thailand that remains € 3.260 in tax, € 0 in premium = € 31.040

    this calculation does not take into account tax credits, etc.
    the € 21.686 will in reality be closer to the net € 24.000

    in Thailand no deductions, no discounts or exemptions, hence this quick and dirty.

    for income/benefits above € 34.300, the higher part is taxed at 38.10%
    a € 40.000 would then be € 25.200 in NL
    and in Thailand € 33.451

    for the tax specialists…. (I'm certainly not) I like to shoot with aim!

    expat health costs (hospital admission only) are comparable to the Dutch basic insurance (115 per month, + 375 = 1750) (expat hospital only = € 2.000)
    normal doctor visits are very cheap here.

    so it suits me.
    it looks like the emigration will still continue 🙂

  9. RuudB says up
    12 July 2019 on 10: 22

    Dear Frank, some comments:
    1- that UWV only provides documents in Dutch is irrelevant. Not the UWV, but you have an idea, a plan, so preparations. Including the legal translation of papers.
    2- That TH is not allowed to levy taxes is not correct. Whether TH does that is another matter. Read the many explanations about this from @Lammert de Haan.
    3- You are married, so you do not receive 1000 euros AOW, but ± Eur 850.
    4- AOW does not fall under a country factor, because SVB+TH! You are absolutely in the wrong here.
    5- WIA does fall under a country factor, because UWV + TH, but is not applied because of bilateral.
    6- In due course you will not receive ± Eur 250 but ± Eur 550
    7- Voluntary continued payment of AOW premium costs ± 18% of your annual income per desired AOW year.
    8- Permanently living in TH, NL health insurance is not possible.
    9- Insuring yourself against medical expenses in TH is going to be a difficult task, after all, no sweaty feet.
    10- I don't think you are "ready for" January 1st yet. Nevertheless: success!

  10. Frank says up
    12 July 2019 on 11: 14

    Hello Ruud,

    The fact that the UWV does not provide documents in English is difficult and extra expensive. Virtually all public sectors are multilingual. (Municipalities, province, tax authorities, etc.)
    As I wrote, the English bank statement was fortunately sufficient for my visa.
    You must have a document from “the government” legalized in The Hague. If it needs to be translated, it is first legalized, then translated and then legalized. Phew.

    You are right about AOW. I was misinformed.
    Then again, paying 18% income for 2% of 850 is quite a lot. My regular pension is sufficient.

    Fortunately, the WIA remains the same for me. Living in Thailand is cheaper, but certainly not 40%

    The treaty between NL and Thailand is precisely to ensure that no double taxation is paid.
    I know there is a lot of confusion about this. For example, AOW is taxed in NL, but your pension is not. That could tax Thailand.
    WIA may not tax them.

    I have been staying in Thailand for a few years now, regularly spending 3 or 4 weeks in NL. (Expensive hobby, those tickets)

    I myself think that I will be ready by October 1st 🙂
    Everything else has been settled for some time.

    The main reason to leave “for real” is the extra net income.
    Or rather, not spending the social premiums @ €9.350 per year.

    Things like car and house, etc. have been arranged for some time.

    Expat insurance is no problem for me, the exception is very limited.
    (A surgeon made a cutting error / complication.
    80-100% rejected, but it is stable.
    Very restrictive, no reason for an exceptional exception. The offers are in.
    NL insurance runs until 1-1-2020.

    We have checked many checklists that exist, fewer and fewer reasons to keep NL.
    (We = together with my wife and several Dutch friends)

    After 15 years of WIA I don't expect them to suddenly approve me :-) Bonsai tree grower? LOL

    • RuudB says up
      12 July 2019 on 14: 00

      Dear Frank, you are doing well and financially as well. I always advocate that because it prevents a lot of nagging and nagging towards TH and NL governments. If you are talking about more than Eur 9K in social security contributions, you have enough money to amply meet the income requirements and live comfortably.

      Just a small correction: AOW may also be subject to taxation in TH. See @L's comments. de Haan here and there to questions and reactions from readers about TH fiscus and NL AOW. In short it comes down to the following:
      Follow @L. de Haan: ……”in the Treaty there is not a single word about social security benefits (including an AOW or WAO benefit). In addition, a so-called residual item is missing.
      This means that national legislation applies to both the Netherlands and Thailand, which means that both countries may levy taxes on this part of your (world) income. The Netherlands does that as a source country and Thailand as a country of residence.” He continues:
      “Until some time ago, Thai tax officials paid little or no attention to the AOW benefit from the Netherlands. However, lately I have been hearing more and more from my Thai clients that the Thai tax officials are increasingly asking about this!
      This means that double income tax can be levied on your state pension. In addition, you “may” pay more income tax in the Netherlands on your AOW benefit than would have been the case if you lived in the Netherlands. This is a result of the expiry of the tax credits as of January 1, 2015 when living in Thailand, among others.” (end of quotes) It is then up to you to request an exemption from Heerlen. Wishing you good years in TH!

      • RuudB says up
        12 July 2019 on 14: 01

        Forgot a link to @L. de Haan: here. https://www.thailandblog.nl/lezersvraag/aanvraag-cq-vervolgaanvraag-voor-vrijstelling-loonbelasting-en-premie/

      • Erik says up
        12 July 2019 on 16: 38

        RuudB, your remark '..It is then up to you to request an exemption from Heerlen…' seems to me to be something to submit to Lammert de Haan. The technology around what you call 'exemption' is different.

        • Lammert de Haan says up
          13 July 2019 on 02: 51

          “Heerlen” will not grant an exemption in respect of AOW and WAO benefits. That is already implied in the text I posted and quoted by RuudB in this regard. See also what I wrote on July 10 at 18:45 PM in the current topic in response to Rene Martin's message.

          I therefore think that RuudB's comment: “It is then up to you to request an exemption from Heerlen” is more intended as “Just look at what you do with it” and so I do not attach too much importance to that.

      • Frank says up
        13 July 2019 on 07: 23

        “Eur 9K in social premiums is enough money to more than meet the income requirements and to live a pleasant life.”

        the toppic starter, Klaas, doesn't mention his income, of course his private business, but important if you want to make ends meet!

        in “https://www.thailandblog.nl/lezensvragen/emigreren-thailand-iva-wao/” about a gross benefit of € 4000 per month… I would like that too 🙂

        but hey, i'm not complaining.
        WIA is certainly not always 70% of the most recently earned wage.
        For me something like 40% of my last received salary.
        I wasn't complaining then either 🙂

        Difference?
        There is an hourly wage, and a salary where hours are subordinate.

        I loved my work, traveled a lot through Europe and other continents, and so it is suddenly all different with a “missection during surgery”.
        Traveling was sometimes fun, sometimes it sucks to only be able to see the Eiffel Tower (again) from the taxi.
        05.00 departure from home, 23.00 back home, the next day just 09.00 back at the office.
        Difference Between Pay and Salary 🙂

        Anyway. with a 34.000 gross you "alread" have those € 9.354 in premiums, it will no longer be. (tax yes)

        Whether around 34.000 gross (= approximately net €1.750) per month is a good income?
        Depends on your standard, your fixed costs.

        After 14 years, my standard has long since been adjusted to my income. (just over €1.750)
        Koophuis sold (already after 3 years), cheaper older car, etc.
        A rental house is easy to leave, car goes to my adult son.

        We now do it with less than € 1000 (+/- 30.000 THB) per month in Thailand.
        the rest goes to the fixed costs in NL. ( rent, GWE, care is already € 800)
        the tickets came from my savings account, now almost empty..

        but with that 30.000 THB we have it, I think, more than enough.
        Spacious enough for isaan, Laos border region.

        Car costs are low, we live “off grid” so no GWE costs.
        Land belongs to my wife, we are slowly building up our new place.
        + 200 chickens, plenty of meat 🙂

        For me this is good, a simple “farm life”, without bustle and stress.

        If there is an extra € 1.250 per month (conservative estimate, no or fewer fixed costs in the Netherlands and slightly more benefits due to the disappearance of social contributions), this will be very welcome to get the savings account back up to standard!
        From 5 numbers to just 4… it could use something.

        I'm not afraid of taxes in Thailand yet.
        The money arrives on my Dutch account, and mostly goes in cash.
        (change at BKK airport in the basement / train tracks, NEVER in the arrivals hall !!)
        further if necessary ATM.

        It'll be fine! 🙂


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