Am Dutch, live in Belgium and stay in Thailand, have questions about health insurance and travel insurance
Dear readers,
As a retired Dutchman, I live in Belgium and am affiliated with the Liberal Mutuality as far as Mutuality is concerned.
I stay in Thailand for a large part of the year and for that I have taken out a comprehensive travel insurance policy that covers a period of one year, two periods of 6 months.
I receive an ABP pension and state pension which is taxed in the Netherlands – so I do not pay any tax to Belgium. Belgium has been recognized as my country of residence by the SVB.
I just received a message from the Mutuality that given my status as a retired non-taxable person in Belgium, there is no need to be a member of the Mutuality. However, in order to be able to take out continuous travel insurance in Belgium, I had to prove that I was affiliated with a health insurance fund (as a Dutch citizen living in Belgium, I cannot take out continuous travel insurance in the Netherlands?).
My Belgian health insurance company does not reimburse costs outside Belgium, for example Thailand. But my travel insurance is good for that with a maximum of € 6.000 per year – annual premium € 000. (for Europe I have an EHIC card).
I am very satisfied with the current arrangements, but I still have two questions:
- Is there a mutual insurance company in Belgium that also covers the costs in Thailand, for example?
- Is there a comprehensive travel insurance policy in the Netherlands that can offer Dutch nationals living in Belgium comprehensive travel insurance on an annual basis (for example, twice 6 months)?
Regards,
Wim
Wim, you can take out a Dutch comprehensive travel insurance policy here, if you live in Belgium: https://www.reisverzekering-direct.nl/speciale-reisverzekeringen/reisverzekering-woonachtig-belgie/
You are insured for a maximum of 180 consecutive days. So you cannot stay in Thailand for longer than 180 days, but if you fly back to Belgium, you can stay for 180 days again.
Thanks Peter, already contacted and indeed this insurance is less than half of what I have now.
As for your 1st question.
There is no Belgian mutual insurance company that covers a stay of 6 months in Thailand.
With regard to stays of a maximum of 3 months, only the Socialist mutual insurance company (De Voorzorg and Bond Moyson) now covers this stay via Mutas. (Maybe also the hospital of the railways because they are quite similar to the SocMut))
All other health insurance companies, including Thailand, have removed their coverage since 2016/2017, I thought. There it is now mostly limited to Europe and the countries of the Mediterranean and only overseas areas of European countries.
see CM as an example https://www.cm.be/media/Geografische-dekking-CM-reisbijstand_tcm47-24482.pdf
(self Syria…..)
According to the SocMut website
Reimbursement of medical costs
.......
– you are temporarily abroad for recreational reasons. The period is limited to a maximum of 3 months over the period of 1 year.
https://www.devoorzorg.be/antwerpen/voordelen-advies/terugbetalingen-ledenvoordelen/In-het-buitenland/op-reis/Medische-zorgen-in-het-buitenland/Reisbijstand-Mutas/Pages/default.aspx#tab=ctl00_PlaceHolderMain_hreftab2
And also according to the statutes of the SocMut with Mutas.
2.2 Conditions
.....
c. The temporary stay abroad has a recreational character and does not last
longer than 3 months
https://www.devoorzorg.be/SiteCollectionDocuments/Formulieren/300/StatutenMutas.pdf
If it interests you.
My wife and I have the AXA Assistance Excellence Family.
This has a standard cover of 6 months of continuous residence, but I have had this extended to 9 months of continuous residence.
I have had some items removed from the standard contract because I am already insured against them (travel cancellation/luggage,…), or because they are useless (purposeless) (Car).
This means that my wife and I can stay in Thailand for 9 months without interruption and pay 304 Euros annually as a family (including the extension to 9 months = +75 Euros).
It will increase from next year, because I will then extend it to 11 months and then it will probably cost around 825 Euros for a family (My wife and I).
https://www.assudis.be/nl/excyeargen.aspx
https://www.assudis.be/nl/excyearwar.aspx
https://www.assudis.be/nl/excyeartar.aspx
https://www.assudis.be/files/nl/pdf/Tech-Reference-Excellence-042017-NL.pdf
Maybe it will help you (or other readers)
Ask Ronny,
Thank you for your very clear information.
That AXA insurance, do you take it out in Belgium or in Thailand?
I concluded this in my AXA office in Mechelen.
I do wonder….
I don't know how your situation is correct, because if you are no longer affiliated with a health insurance fund in Belgium, how do you get your doctor's costs, hospital costs and medication reimbursed?
Bye Ronnie. I am in possession of the (CAK) EHIC card valid for the whole of Europe. So in Belgium I don't have to pay for the doctor or hospital, that's what the CAK does. If there is a deductible or if the treatment in Belgium or another European country is more expensive than in the Netherlands, I have to pay the CAK.
You ask for travel insurance that covers 2x 6 months. Keep in mind that with a long-term stay in Thailand, in the event of a claim, questions may be asked about the length of your stay and actual place of residence.
He already lives abroad…..
Does it matter to the Netherlands whether this is Belgium or Thailand?
For Belgium, and his place of residence there, he only has to report his absence to his municipality if he is absent from his address for more than 6 months and less than a year. He will then be regarded as “temporarily absent”, but that is only an administrative status and has no consequences for anything.
Only if he would be absent from his address for more than a year should you deregister
(except for certain groups. For example, I was employed in the Dutch Navy for 3 years, but I did not have to deregister from my Belgian municipality because I was a Belgian soldier. So I remained administratively "temporarily absent" for 3 years. That is one of the exception groups to that rule.)
Very correct, that's how it was explained to me when settling in Belgium (had already lived there for 27 years).
Janbelg
Until now, the Moyson union (socialist) still reimburses costs outside Europe
Jan
Up to stays of maximum 3 months…. see my previous response.
He is therefore nothing with that if he wants to go 6 months
I know a Fleming who lived in Bangkok all year and was reimbursed for all costs at Eurocross through Bond Moyson. He has since died of cancer.
I myself am also a member of BM and my requests for reimbursement of medical expenses were never checked for how long I stayed in Thailand, which is usually two times 5 months.
Did have travel insurance with the VAB just to be on the safe side.
Sorry, Eurocross should be Mutas.
Yes, we all know someone who is different….. And what was, is therefore no longer…. In addition, each foreign file is decided separately and there is still a difference between costs of urgent hospitalization and outpatient costs.
So I wouldn't blindly trust that they will pay back everything and certainly not that they will intervene on site for stays of + 3 months.
Other mutual funds do not do the latter from day 1, by the way.
And it's all well and good that they may start reimbursing things until you are allowed to pay for a serious admission out of your own pocket and you can first advance everything or arrange your own repatriation. And they are not going to pay back the latter. Be sure of that.
An extra travel insurance is therefore certainly not superfluous.
By the way, the travel insurance company will also first contact your health insurance company and will only reimburse those items that your health insurance company has not reimbursed to them. That is why you must be affiliated with a health insurance fund to take out traditional travel insurance.
As for assistance Mutas.
Here it is clearly stated in black and white what the conditions are for assistance from Mutas and from there you have to go. Only applies to SocMut (Bond Moyson and De Voorzorg)
By the way, De Voorzorg and Bond Moyson are exactly the same. Both fall under the SocMut.
The only difference is that Bond Moyson is for East and West Flanders, and De Voorzorg for Antwerp and Limburg.
I have changed the link to Bond Moyson. I don't have to adjust the text because it is the same.
According to the SocMut Bond Moyson website
Reimbursement of medical costs
.......
– you are temporarily abroad for recreational reasons. The period is limited to a maximum of 3 months over the period of 1 year.
hhttps://www.bondmoyson.be/ovl/benefits-advice/reimbursements-member-benefits/In-het-buitenland/op-reis/Medical-zorgen-in-het-buitenland/Reisbijstand-Mutas/Pages/default.aspx# tab=ctl00_PlaceHolderMain_hreftab2
And also according to the statutes of the SocMut (Bond Moyson) with Mutas.
2.2 Conditions
.....
c. The temporary stay abroad has a recreational character and does not last
longer than 3 months
hhttps://www.bondmoyson.be/SiteCollectionDocuments/Formulieren/300/StatutenMutas.pdf
For example, you can take out hospitalization insurance with the DKV. Is everything covered?
I am a Dutchman living in the Netherlands but always worked in Belgium until the end of the year (65) insured with the FSMB (via the Diest office because in Leuven and Brussels = head office people do not speak Dutch well).
Do you have supplementary insurance there and with me since 2004, bills are simply paid out???
It also has its own conditions and limitations in time.
DKV normally no longer covers a stay abroad of more than 3 months. (Maybe some exceptions)
It is not for nothing that they write the following on their website.
“When you stay abroad, you also deserve the best health insurance. If you are going abroad for three months or more, we recommend Globality Health.”
https://www.dkv.be/verzekeringen/ziekteverzekering-buitenland
Everything has its price of course.
Moreover, now, as a pensioner, to join DKV…..
Will first be a medical examination with perhaps exclusions, waiting period and the annual premium will not be wrong either.
As a soldier, I (and also my wife) used to have a group hospitalization insurance with DKV through Defense.
I canceled when I retired because it still made little sense to us.
Among other things, it contained the following;
The connection can only take place insofar as the persons to be connected:
– Be subject to and benefit from Belgian Social Security
– Have their domicile and permanent residence in Belgium or in a country bordering Belgium
The affiliation expires if you stay abroad for more than 3 uninterrupted months.
https://cdsca-ocasc.be/sites/default/files/content/DKV_HOSPIT/2018/bijlage_1_-_samenvatting_defensie_nl.pdf
It is best to read your terms and conditions carefully….
For your information.
I have nothing but praise for the times that I have called on DKV in Belgium for a hospital stay. Everything was always arranged down to the last detail.
Dear Wim,
Do you have a contract with each insurance policy?
In Belgium, bond moyson still covers directly, ie they pay your bills if you are hospitalized. There is a flat rate of 100 euros for other medical costs!
The CM has stopped direct payment on 01/01/17. You will reimburse your costs, but you must first pay everything yourself, if and then compare them with the costs in Belgium, and you will never get paid back more than what it costs in Belgium.
I myself had to undergo a heart ablation in bkk-pty hospital costing 1.000.000 baht, in AZ Bruges 6000 euros. They said you are no longer allowed to fly, the professor of AZ Bruges brought up my medical file and told me to jump on the kite. so asngered so done.
Fernand with the Liberale Mutuality and the continuous travel insurance with Europ-assistance. But in Belgium and the rest of Europe use my EHIC card (European Healthy Insurance Card). So I don't need mutual insurance. Only in Belgium to be able to take out my travel insurance.
There is something here in this story that really makes me doubt.
Schrijver mentions that he receives AOW and pension from the Netherlands and pays taxes in the Netherlands. So far all ok ….. BUT …. there is something more to enjoy health care in Belgium: the RSZ (National Social Security). The mutuality only acts as a 'third party payer', the money comes from the National Social Security Office. Someone who wants to benefit from this must be subject to social security or, if no income of his own, be registered with someone who is (eg children, non-working wife….). The National Social Security Office is deducted directly from the pension, even for pensioners, before taxes are calculated.
It is always possible to join a health insurance fund, but that does not mean that you are entitled to benefits. It is normal that the writer received a letter from the health insurance company that he did not have to pay that contribution, as he probably does not pay a social security contribution (13.07% of the gross income) in Belgium, unless he pays it on his own initiative, which I doubt , he is not entitled to a refund anyway.
Your health insurance remains valid
---------------
All Belgians who pay a health insurance contribution are covered by health insurance anyway. So even if you are abroad for more than three months.
Agreements have been made with the countries within the European zone. You will be reimbursed – just like in Belgium – a large part of your healthcare costs. Request your European health insurance card from your health insurance fund in advance. This way you always have the warranty in your pocket. . It applies in all EU countries, but also in Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein.
If you travel outside Europe, the reimbursement of your medical costs will be based on the Belgian rates. You have to be careful here because the rates that are charged can differ significantly from the rates that apply in our country. For example, if you travel to the United States, you will be charged much higher rates. But you are therefore entitled to the Belgian rates.
Your hospitalization insurance remains valid
------------------
The hospitalization insurance intervenes abroad. The repayment abroad is different from that at home. But that has nothing to do with the length of your stay.
Your Mutas repatriation will stop after three months
--------------------
Mutas travel assistance is a second pillar of the health insurance fund. It is a worldwide medical assistance that also provides repatriation to Belgium. The Mutas contribution is only valid for three months a year. If you stay away for more than three months, you fall back on your compulsory health insurance.
I therefore assume:
If a “Belgian” or “non-Belgian” is affiliated with a health insurance fund, you will always receive a refund. only “Mutas” no longer helps you abroad and you have to pay all bills in advance, some of which you then get back.
Source:
https://radio2.be/de-inspecteur/langer-dan-3-maanden-in-het-buitenland-hier-moet-je-op-letten
Dear Wim,
I read that your AOW benefit is also taxed in the Netherlands and that you therefore do not pay tax on it in Belgium, while you live in Belgium. But then something really goes wrong.
Article 18 of the Double Taxation Treaty concluded between the Netherlands and Belgium provides as follows:
Article 18. Pensions, annuities, social security benefits and alimony payments
o b.Pensions and other benefits, whether periodic or not, paid in pursuance of the social legislation of a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State shall be taxable only in the last-mentioned State.