Dear readers,
Thank you for your comments on my entry of August 14: www.thailandblog.nl/lers-inzending/fraude-leningen-op-your-name/ However, I believe that the story is not completely clear to everyone, so I will try to explain it a bit more.
- The point of the story is that my girlfriend was with me in Khon Kaen from mid-December to the first week of March, so it was impossible for her to take out a loan in Bangkok on January 20! I left Thailand the first week of March because of work on my house, but that is not important.
- It looks like someone used her papers and took out a loan in her name in Bangkok. She received these papers by fax from her lawyer from the bank and, according to her, are very similar to her way of writing/drawing. The only thing we can think of is that someone got hold of her paperwork regarding the previously described damage claim and used it. (ID card made by yourself, is that possible?).
- According to the bank, they had sent a total of four letters, but there is no evidence for this, four letters could be correct if you assume that the first repayment would only start after 3 months? However, we do not know this. Did anyone benefit from not letting them gain weight?
- My girlfriend only received that fourth letter and then at that time, so now about 2,5 weeks ago as I wrote at the beginning of my letter, I was not (and not now) in Thailand but that is completely not important (it is about January 20!).
- The walking ATM machine is not applicable in this context since my girlfriend has her own piggy bank that contains enough. And again, she never got to get that loan in Bangkok because she was in Khon Kaen!
- The borrowed money did not go to a bank account, but cash over the counter, so no trace there either.
Furthermore, Harry is right with an expert and 'see your claim in court' is of course also a possibility. You can also go to a Thai court, but we must not forget that it will be very difficult because the bank seems to have all the cards and the bill continues.
In addition, this bank in Bangkok is about 500 km away with their own lawyers and my girlfriend comes from a village where the cows still have priority over the chickens, this away game will be very difficult to win.
So on the advice of the lawyer (bill of 20.000 Tbt.) and to prevent the interest / fine from rising even higher and a seizure may follow, my girlfriend decided to pay the bill. It is sour for her because a large part of the profit from the harvest must now be used to pay off a loan she never had.
Furthermore, I have only written this story to indicate that you should be careful about giving personal information to third parties.
The bill has been paid, the wounds have been licked and I would like to leave it at that, thanks for the good advice.
Submitted by Cloggie
Still find it a very confusing story. Bank (Tisco) would be located in Bangkok, but Tisco is now also located in KhonKaen……….. It seems logical that Tisco-BangKok should give its approval. It is strange, however, that girlfriend was in KhonKaen at the time of application and now chooses eggs for her money like a “hare”.
I find it absolutely inconceivable to repay a loan that I have not taken out. It is impossible for the bank to provide legally conclusive evidence to the court if I am indeed not involved.
What surprises me very much is that the loan amount is 60.000 and the interest (+costs?) 51.000. And this in about half a year (loan taken out in January 2015).
This looks like 'loan-shark' percentages…. ????
Why not go to that bank in Bangkok and demand to see the original forms?
So there must be a fake signature on it. By fake, I mean they copied your girlfriend's signature on it. They faxed that form to your lawyer… so you cannot prove the fraud with that fax.
According to your story, there CANNOT be a real signature on it… so you can prove the fraud with that. That is really the second (after the action that led to receiving the fax) what I would have done.
Did your girlfriend possibly pay under protest? Then you could still take action… maybe that can also be done without 'protest'?
But thanks for the warning: had to hand over a copy of the ID to the bank today and set it up so that it cannot be used for anything else!
ok Cloggie, your instructions/advice are clear, we will pay even more attention and remain very careful with loans. Thank you.
All in all a somewhat illogical story with snags and eyes, I think.
Why missed so much correspondence that the bank sent, someone close by who kept catching it?
Story behind this loan is suspected, but Cloggie says it's going to be hard to pinpoint someone, isn't it? It is obviously not possible to appoint someone just like that, but if the story behind this loan is suspected, then it is a bit light to decide to pay to the bank? We would love to hear that story, but unfortunately don't tell Cloggie. What will happen now if there appears to be another loan or loans, but pay them off again? Then the end is lost.
As stated before, Cloggie only finds out that a loan exists at the moment of imminent attachment, yes, that is the moment from which the existence of the loan can no longer be denied and Cloggie will definitely know about it.
Well anyway, maybe it would have been better to let it come down to it in court, maybe the bank would have backed down before then, if not then fight in court, think of more loans coming up?
Well, the wounds are licked, if there was no other conclusion than to pay, then okay.
Then we see this message as a well-intentioned warning to every blogger about not handing over a copy too easily.
Good luck with the known story behind this loan Cloggie.
Nico B
The borrowed amount was paid in cash.
Then the bank has a receipt with name, signature and ID number…
Incidentally, girlfriend very quickly gave in to a loan that she did not take out, and of which she only knew about its existence for a few weeks ('My girlfriend only received that fourth letter and then at that moment, so now such a 2,5 weeks ago as I wrote at the beginning of my letter).
She doesn't seem to be really interested in exposing the real borrower and taking further steps... which the lawyer advises her of course 😉
But be careful with copies, indeed!
On the one hand the friend has enough money '... my friend has her own piggy bank with enough in it...' on the other hand '... because a large part of the profit on the harvest now has to be used to pay off a loan that she never received...' Contradiction everywhere.
Furthermore, the loan appears to have been taken out on the bank in BKK, with the property papers of rice fields, ID card and the blue Tambien booklet. As it should. Copies of this were of course taken and the bank then faxed them to the girlfriend's lawyer. Of course the lawyer sees the chances of objecting to this as minimal… and he is right!
No bank lends on copies, it makes copies of originals for the file. The payment in cash only indicates a smart move by the 'legitimate' borrower so as not to be exposed as such afterwards… And let's hope in this story that it stayed with that one loan.
Furthermore, the message, be careful with copies, is always welcome.
Man you got scammed! This was done by someone who works in or helped with that bank, you just shouldn't have responded. Don't have to make any payment or have to say anything from you. They or them didn't have a leg to stand on, although they hadn't given up and sent all kinds of threatening letters and lawyer letters, not responding. I also experienced something similar (is going to be way too long) and this was about Baht 200.000-. Was then, 25 years ago, a huge capital. 2 employees of this bank were involved and several residents of the village were scammed. Both bank workers left with the Noorderzon with three million baht. This bank was so bold as to try to collect the so-called loan from us, but we were advised "don't respond, especially not by letter". If you have your handwriting, you can easily forge a signature. At a bank? Anything goes here, TIT. What those 2 did was pay the interest on that loan for 2 years until they got enough loans together and then get rid of those three million. baht. This happened at a bank! TIT.
Sorry, correction, it was thirty million baht my wife says, so quite a sum. Never paid a cent of that so-called loan of Baht 200.000 and never responded.
I would have called the bank: “We will come by on that particular day to pay the debt + interest. If you, as a bank, would be kind enough to show the original papers…”
(And then bring 2 witnesses.)
@Kees, have you ever tried to fight it out with a bank? The branch of that bank was located in Pattaya on what is now 2nd road opposite soi 6 or 7. I went there and did as you say and was told whoever was in charge of that was not there and I would have it another day had to try. After hearing the same story for a few days, I never went there again and never responded to anything and never paid anything. It was my Thai wife who tried to get them and they didn't expect a Farang to be involved. Likewise, the Lawyer of this bank, without informing us, went to a small court in Rayong province and issued a writ (probably involved a brown envelope) to pay off or seize the house, all over a non loan taken out by us. Immediately had the house written in her daughter's name and, as said, did not respond. There was still a paper stuck on the house, but I threw it away, it was not our house. I still have all the papers on this case and I believe that bank has been harassing us for years. But now it comes, the bank closed its doors and declared bankruptcy along with many other small banks and finance companies, it was a veritable epidemic of false and bad loans. There were also real loans that were not paid back. You also received 14 to 16% interest on your money and borrowing money cost 22%, also financing a house or car, so that explains it. Money lenders thought they would get rich quickly. The story is even more bizarre but long enough.
Another thing, if you have to appear before a court here and you don't come, you are automatically guilty and have lost the case. The counterparty is also not obliged to inform you about a possible. court date. TIT judicial system.
Banks never admit liability and if you want to win this you have to invest a lot of money in a lawyer and court and have a lot of patience. I was scammed by a manager of the Bangkok Bank for 1 million when I thought I could buy a cheap piece of land. After a few weeks I learned that she had run off with many millions and the bank was not responding. And so I can tell dozens more how our farangs are scammed with wrong papers, and especially by loansharks. Never borrow from those guys, because it never ends, and the box of tricks is endless.