Learning Basic Thai to Get You Out (Reader Submission)
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Here's a question that is actually a pointer: which of the books I list below are still on sale and in which cities and bookshops?
I vaguely remember that in the eighties I saw a reference to a Dutch book to learn the language, but maybe someone can help me with this? Never seen or heard from again after that.
The reason why these are recommended, I indicate with each book:
1. Gosa Arya “Thai Grammar” and “The Structure of the Thai Language” by a visiting professor at Osaka University of Foreign Studies dates back to 1980. The more extensive second version in particular discusses the syntax of Thai comprehensively. You can still find the shorter grammar booklet in Chattuchak, but both books were for sale at the time in the bookstore of Chulalongkorn University (now in Siam Square at the back of their own campus) for the proverbial cake and a penny.
2. Stuart Campbell and Chuan Shaweevong's "The Fundamentals of the Thai Language" 1956 and numerous reprints since, occasionally pops up in 2nd hand bookstores (try Dasa: https://www.dasabookcafe.com/ on Sukhumvit between Soi 26 and 28). It is an inimitable book because it simultaneously introduces essential words and sentences and also immediately teaches the script. In addition, there are numerous references to the structure of the language and customs of spoken Thai and the manners and customs of the Thais. This book also has another feature that is nowhere to be found except in the following book: a list of 2600 commonly used words. I'm still asking myself why the AUA per force wanted me to learn how to ask if the buffalo is bigger than the cow, at their school in the heart of Bangkok.
3. George Bradley McFarland “Thai-English Dictionary” published in various versions, including in the 1990s, still for sale under the Stanford University Press, but first published in 1941. As said, this dictionary also has a list of the most commonly used words, 1000 in this case, based on 30 sources but keep in mind that many of those words may be out of date and the list was made before the sexual revolution.
This dictionary is inimitable – also by the later explanatory Thai dictionaries – in terms of nature and its creatures (wonderful old-fashioned word!). Numerous authorities have contributed to this and there are also lists of the scientific names of animals and plants. It contains a wealth of information about all kinds of everyday items, situations and also references to local dialects. For example, you can learn the Thai word for the Malayan pitviper: an extremely dangerous, deadly snake that lurked quietly in the undergrowth behind my house in Naklua. This is positive news: the local Thais know this too!
I once found it in the 1980's in a bookshop in Siam Square but have hardly seen it in the used bookshops since then.
Now for the bad news: I am not lending any of those books after several copies were never returned to me…
Submitted by Walter EJ Tips
Walter, who can learn a tonal language from a book?
I learned Thai from a Linguaphone course 30+ years ago and that was with books and diskettes, now probably with books and disks. Learning Thai is not only learning words, but also pronunciation and writing. Then you need a medium that comes to you through your eyes AND ears.
My advice: forget those English books in the early stages. Above all, use your ears and buy toddler books that you can find in every bookstore. Spell and copy word for word, learn the pitch and the rules and signs that serve for it. Then you will walk through the city and try to pronounce the province names from the number plates of cars.
Only then do you start simple conversation and the books you list. By the way, there are also books in Dutch; search on the internet or in this blog and you will find them.
Thai, like any language, is difficult and building conversation skills takes years. But you enjoy the country and people so much more if you speak and understand and read the language!
Finally, your request for a book in our language. 'The Thai language; grammar, spelling and pronunciation'. Author David Smyth, translation Ronald Schutte. Printing house Boekengilde, Enschede. Isbn 978 94 610 8723 2 (2014)
Totally agree. Many people who want to learn Thai and read on the first page: “Thai is a tonal language”, put that aside to deal with later. That is not possible. You have to know what the tone is from the first word and practice it often. Learning Thai words without the tone is useless. I also did that Linguaphone course and used to own tapes from the AUA with endless pronunciation/tone exercises. Very boring, but very useful. And it will indeed take you a long time before you understand and are understood properly. Only after quite a bit of failure and frustration will you be able to master it.
I can only join that. Also don't forget that in many books the phonetics are confusing or poorly displayed. In English books, one often makes no difference between the long and short short vowel (“nam” VS “name”) and the tones are sometimes completely absent. The statement cannot be learned from a book. Various word lists can also be found online (top 1 to 5 thousand words), although they also differ, one list is based on newspapers and the other list is based on something else. Words are therefore sometimes too high in the ranking or the very everyday informal or flatter words are missing.
Learn to read the script as quickly as possible and get started with the tones from the start.
Ronald's book on spelling and grammar is highly recommended, and has already been reprinted several times. See also elsewhere here on TB.
Oh and about not getting books back: I write my name and date in the front when I lend them out. I also do that when I borrow books. If a book has been put aside for a while by me or someone else, I hope that when I open it, I will be reminded to return the book when it is finished. When lending books to each other, especially if they have been lying around for weeks or months, it is sometimes difficult to remember which book belonged to whom...
My book, among others Available through me WWW. Slapsystems.nl Also shipped via Thailand
I am Belgian, I have a perfect command of my mother tongue, I have a perfect command of French and English and I speak and understand the German language.
I have been married to my Thai wife for about 10 years and have moved to Thailand permanently. I do not intend to learn another language in my old age.
I know some people in my Farang circle of friends who have started learning the Thai language. None have lasted. I fear that the language gap between Dutch and Thai is difficult to bridge, precisely because they are 2 completely different languages. That makes it so difficult for us to learn Thai.
I always wonder why we always have to adapt. I have been in America for many years during my professional career. People there were always surprised that I, as a Belgian, was 3-lingual. An American citizen only speaks his own language, but is fortunate that English (American) is a world language and can be used everywhere.
Isn't it urgent for Thai education to take English to a higher level? I communicate with my wife in (poor) English. Even after 10 years, her language skills have hardly improved.
My Thai brother-in-law has a university degree and conversation between us in English is just drama. There is still a very long way to go to solve this problem. Conversely, it is all too easy: “Learn the Thai language, as a foreigner you are a guest here and you have to adapt…”. I do not agree with this statement.
Our own childhood is immersed in English from an early age. The Thai youth, on the other hand, is kept stupid. And that's where the shoe pinches. Not the Farang who doesn't want to learn Thai, but the Thai who doesn't want to and can't master English.
Geert,
Completely agree with you.
I too have made several attempts to master the Thai language.
In addition to having learned Dutch, French, German, English and Spanish, Thai is possible but takes a lot of effort
Isan dialect is simpler.
Perhaps the Thai should take the trouble to learn an international language.
I communicate with my wife in a poor mixture of English, Dutch, Thai and Isaan.
Unintelligible to outsiders.
After 35 years in the Netherlands you would expect more command of the language.
It's more sabay sabay for her.
Dear Geert,
No doubt you know how I feel about learning the Thai language. For a Thai, learning the English language is almost as difficult as learning the Thai language for a foreigner. You suggest that learning Thai is too hard. What about English among Thai youth? Indeed, they are not confronted enough with English. But you have been living in Thailand for 10 years and then it shouldn't be that difficult to learn the language, right? And indeed it has nothing to do with 'being a guest' but more with politeness, showing interest and having fun. And how is it that your wife speaks such poor English?
And also: how much fun you get from it as soon as you can jet and all the doors that open for you.
Well Kees, I'm curious which doors would open if I spoke the Thai language?
My wife and I are always together, if translation needs to be done outside the house, she is my help. I've never had any problems with that.
As I answered to Tino below, I know that you should not expect serious conversations with a Thai. In my family there is only complaining and trimming about money and constant gossip about others. My wife knows that I am somehow satisfied that I do not understand Thai, then I should not listen to all this. So what I don't know doesn't bother me.
Hi Geert, I understand well that in your situation, as you explain it, it works well as it works for you. But I have found that communication with Thai was useless before I spoke Thai and pretty good when I did. It became much easier to arrange things, to get things done, to communicate with each other in a relaxed way, to understand things better and not to get cheated (taxi!). Being able to read Thai has also benefited me a lot.
I also hate being treated like a tourist and that doesn't happen anymore once you speak Thai. And, no, I don't have a Thai wife who fulfills that communication function for you. The fact that you experience gossip and complaining about money in her family has nothing to do with me. Fortunately, I don't have those kinds of contacts or I avoid them as much as possible.
So you see that our situations differ and we therefore experience it differently.
That said, learning Thai has cost me a lot of effort and I have the advantage of having studied and taught the language at a high level. That makes tackling the learning process much easier. Was it really quite a bitch.
Last sentence should be: Still, it was really quite a bit of work, of which I can imagine that most people lose heart quickly.
It is undeniable that speaking and understanding the language is a huge advantage. If I can buy the knowledge of Thai tomorrow, I would be happy to spare some money for it.
However, I think it is a bit late for most expats who come to live in TH to make an effort. Most of us are at least 60 and have had their active life behind us. At our age you still want to enjoy the pleasures of life and not go to class every day. Of course that is allowed for those who feel it is a fun way to spend their time. And as already mentioned, I know many who have started but few if any who have persevered. In short, most of them are past the age to learn another tonal language. I always say it's not worth it anymore in my case.
Hi Tino,
I've only just moved to Thailand. My wife has always lived and worked in Belgium. At the time, she followed the integration process, including the first level of Dutch.
I had hoped that, because of her work in Belgium, her Dutch would be a lot better. Unfortunately, she made absolutely no effort at all. I have always wanted to help her move forward, but if the will is not there. We now speak, just like Khun moo above, a mixed bag of Dutch and English. For me this is not a problem, we understand each other.
I have the impression that learning a foreign language for a Thai would not only be too difficult, but that they are (sorry…) too lazy for it. My wife had been able to use all the years in Belgium to master Dutch. I tried really hard to motivate her but to no avail. She invariably switched to her poor English.
Perhaps you would give a hidden answer in your response if you asked me the question: "why don't you want to learn the Thai language?" Well Tino, indeed, Thai is as difficult for us to master as English is for a Thai. My age is a stumbling block for me to learn a new language now (I don't have the energy for it anymore). As I said, I am 3-lingual, so I did my best.
And By The Way: You don't have to learn the Thai language to want to have an in-depth conversation with them, I already know that. Where necessary, my wife is my perfect help during daily life and that is enough for me.
And honestly, I sometimes miss a serious chat in my own language ... because among the Farang there is also a lot of boasting without depth 😉
Tino, explain to me. Why should I learn the language of a country where I am not allowed to live permanently? Where I am not allowed to own land. Not allowed to work. Where I am discriminated against when I go to a national park and have to pay double just because of my white skin color. Where to go if I don't have enough money to renew my visa. Where I can't vote. Where I can't get into the health insurance fund, even if I pay taxes. A country I can never become a resident of. In short, I am largely excluded from social life?
These are justifiable frustrations, dear Peter, and I wish it were otherwise. To come back to your last comment: it was precisely because of learning the language that I always had the feeling that I was indeed a part of society. Volunteer work, pleasant conversations, humor, and yes, sometimes in-depth conversations about all kinds of social conditions, politics, history, Buddhism and more. No, you will never become a real Thai, that also applies to many Thais. Knowing the language has made my life in Thailand more enjoyable in many ways and ways. But everyone should do what they like. I maintain that learning the Thai language is not too difficult and very useful, especially for those who live there for a long time with relatives.
The points you mention, Peter, about not having to learn the Thai language are correct. If someone would mention those points as a reason not to live and work in Thailand, I can understand that. Despite those points, to live and work in Thailand, but only use them as a reason not to have to learn the language, I think is a little bit hypocritical.
I sometimes order an ice cream from DQ. I then say: Auwkoon deep, haa siep bat, crab. They look at me with a smile and correct me: Siep haa baht, they say. Keep doing it anyway.
You can also live in Thailand permanently, then you have to apply for a residence permit (instead of those eternal visas). For a residence permit (permanent residency), an integration course in Thai language and culture is required and hefty fees. Naturalization to Thai is also possible, with an integration requirement and even higher fees. Then you can also vote and all other rights / obligations that citizenship entails.
Whether the people around that migrant with PR/Naturalization also sees it as a full-fledged resident is of course a second thing… then speaking the language will certainly help to make Thai friends so as not to remain a 100% outsider. There remains enough that is less or differently arranged compared to the Netherlands, but I will keep my mind before I get the “foreigners are guests at all times and must keep their mouths shut” brigade after me.
Peter from the editors, you MUST do nothing!
If you live in TH or elsewhere, whether you learn the language or not is a personal matter. It also does not depend on your comments: 'permanent living is possible', owning land is possible through legal constructions, working is sometimes allowed, and further complaints or feelings.
No, I learned the language to communicate.
I think that's important. My (now) ex was in Khon Kaen hospital for thyroid removal; for a good week I was the person who had to arrange everything: groceries, mail, banking, neighbors and the devil and his old nut…. Taking care of grandma, speaking to doctors, and the neighbors who don't even speak Thai but Isan or Lao….
Then I was happy to be able to speak and read and write Thai.
Almost completely agree with you Geert.
I am a resident here in my mind with very limited options as far as long stay visa is concerned.[per year]
Language is not part of that and that is done by the government, which is also very conscious in my opinion.
If you fall by the wayside with the rest of the requirements, you can really make sure that everything is in order, otherwise you are illegal and that is prohibited in Thailand and a reason for deportation.
Whether or not you speak Thai is irrelevant.
I was a guest when I came here as a holiday man.
Learning English is often a school subject here, but really speaking at a reasonable level is often not a reason in the Thai mind.
After all, Thailand is the center of the civilized world and a PM stating that one should learn Thai doesn't help either.
Thailand scores extremely badly with that figure, English.
Of course there are nuances to be made in a city or village as a foreigner or whether or not you have lived abroad as a Thai.
The right mix can be the difference between night and day.
For really learning anything (and that also applies to learning another language) motivation is what is needed above all. That motivation can be based on different factors: on intrinsic factors (you just want it for yourself), on dire necessity (if I don't learn it, I won't get a better job) or on perceived necessity (if I don't learn English, I will get not a foreign man).
I think there is no dire need for foreigners to learn Thai. Your visa does not depend on it and neither does your happiness. At Tino, the motivation is mainly intrinsic, but that requires perseverance and sometimes frustration.
For foreigners, therefore, it is mainly about the perceived need, which differs from person to person and from situation to situation. I worked in a Thai university for 15 years where every colleague and student spoke English, and my wife also speaks very reasonable English. So I never felt the need because I could also have conversations with my colleagues and students about politics, elections, COVID and other matters, also because it had consequences for our work. I felt like I was really part of (part of) Thai society.
My wife takes pleasure in helping me with various Thai government agencies, of which more and more Thais speak and understand reasonable English. (as with Immigration, SSO). And even my brother-in-law and father-in-law understand basic English, but not enough for a real conversation.
The perceived need to motivate me to learn Thai is therefore not very great. I now spend part of my retirement time teaching Thai better English and critical thinking. I think that (in the medium term) I help more than putting many hours into learning the Thai or Isan language myself.
Last week we were at the veterinary clinic with our cat to have her vaccinated for a 3rd vaccination. My wife went inside to report us and I was outside because at the reception I had noticed a huge dog. A young woman came out. She said something in Thai. I informed her in English that I didn't understand her, and damn it: she switched to English effortlessly. So there you have it.
Oh yes, forgot to mention: I'm in Thailand to consume my pension. I am not going to worry about learning Thai language or not. Find them in Thailand completely fine and prefer them.
For those who still want to try to learn the Thai language, there is also the book:
Thai Reference Grammer (ISBN 974-8304-96-5) A book for intermediate and more advanced students. Each point is illustrated with characteristic sentences in both Thai script and romanized Thai with easy-to-read phonetics and tone symbols for improved pronunciation.
Here's another stick in the chicken coop:
How many Thai fiancees, wives, fiends, etc. would like their other half to learn Thai?
I was quite confused when I had a conversation with an Australian (that's easier for us) who asked me how I learned Thai.
He told me that his attempts and requests to learn words and pronunciation were brushed off by his significant other half: I'll sort that all out for you!