Reader's submission: Again in the grip of the tax authorities, who knows what to do?
More than a year ago I wrote my account on this blog about the unequal battle between the Dutch tax authorities and myself. The result was that my state pension was withheld over a period of 3 months, as well as the holiday pay. With two more deductions during 2014, my total loss amounted to almost 5.000 euros.
Towards the end of the year, things calmed down and AOW payments became regular again and holiday pay was also paid out normally.
However, what my surprise is, at the end of October I received another letter from the SVB that my AOW is being withheld again on behalf of the Tax Authorities, for how long it is not stated. As of November 16, I will receive 21 euros as a monthly allowance. So off; you save yourself.
Again no language nor sign from the tax authorities regarding the how what and why, and that has been as long as I have been in Thailand (9 years). The story, apparently we have the wrong address, is nonsense! The SVB in this matter is an extension of the Tax and Customs Administration and they have been able to reach me at my address for years. Why not the IRS?
Worldwide organizations are committed to poor countries where the population has to make ends meet on the basis of a dollar a day. As a former resident of a civilized and rich country like the Netherlands, I am fobbed off with 21 euros a month. I certainly do not want to lament here, but I am well aware that in my view this is inhumane treatment.
Now my question, are there any readers of this esteemed blog who have also experienced something similar and how was it resolved? I would also like to get in touch with experts in tax and legal matters.
A law firm is beyond my financial reach. My savings balance is falling in this way at an ominous pace because be honest, you don't do that much with 21 euros.
I am 78 years old, fortunately still healthy in body and limbs. Still battling but to bring this whole thing to a successful conclusion I really need advice and help,
Sometimes my courage sinks into my flip-flops too.
Who can and wants to help me with this?
Hans
Hi Hans,
This seems to me to be a case of the Dutch Embassy. They are in favor of helping Dutch people abroad in all kinds of areas. It is also always useful to have another government service take care of this (file creation and expensive, often difficult contact with civil servants). They often have internal connections and a different status when they start investigating things. Given your promised monthly income of 21 euros, it seems to me that this falls under urgent assistance. So off to Bangkok and explain the matter fully and ask for help.
Get well soon.
That seems pointless to me as long as you don't know what's going on. The embassy has no access to your tax information and will not help you until you know exactly what is going on.
If you have complaints about the government, you must contact the National Ombudsman https://www.nationaleombudsman.nl/ Of course, you must first create a file showing that you have asked the tax authorities for clarification in writing.
Dear Hans, The Dutch tax authorities do not seize (because it will) your income without a valid reason. Why don't you call the tax phone sometime? Free in the Netherlands 0800 0543. If you provide your social security number, they can view all your data and tell you what is going on.
From abroad you may have to call a different number. Check out belastingdienst.nl. Make sure you end up there and not at a site of a smart and expensive tax advisor with an almost identical url!
You know better how to make cheap calls to the Netherlands. That one phone call can solve a lot. Playing cat and mouse with the tax authorities is absolutely pointless.
Telephone number Belastingdienst Heerlen is +31555385385.
If you call via DTAC, first 004 and then 31 etc. Via 004 it is almost free to call. I called NL for Baht 50- approx. 10 minutes.
Apparently the tax authorities think they owe you money. Don't you know about that? It looks like a seizure at the SVB.
If you knew that you could solve the problem.
A weird story. The SVB is not an extension of the Tax and Customs Administration. Has the tax authorities seized due to imposed assessments? You must complain to the SVB about the non-payment of the state pension (in full).
I endorse Peter's advice to submit this matter to the National Ombudsman.
Complaining to the SVB is pointless, which is only the executor of the attachment, the questioner also indicates that the attachment was made by the tax authorities.
Nico B
SVB does the withholding, so I will first ask for what and on the basis of that SVB withholds. In addition, there should be a bailiff's writ, which you can also request.
The bailiff's writ states the amount of the claim, but also the date of this writ. It may have happened a long time ago and does not necessarily have to be from the tax authorities.
So summon SvB to send you the requested information within 2 weeks, only then can you take action.
As I understand from that payment of 21 euros per month, you are deregistered from the Netherlands, so there is no longer a minimum legal income.
I did this about half a year ago for an English man who had worked in the Netherlands, withheld AOW pension, this later turned out to be unpaid child support, he knew nothing about it.
This will stop next year and then we will request a refund of the overpaid income tax and premiums.
So make sure via the SvB who the creditor is, only then can you take action.
Gr. Roel
ombudsman does nothing with these complaints, and I do not understand, your address is not correct, are you or are you not registered in the Netherlands or are you, those are all things they look at, so let yourself be well informed, yes and something can be done are what you don't know yet, I would definitely ask at the embassy
If you barely have any assets and a low income, a lawyer is almost free, right?
You are entitled to subsidized legal assistance, see http://letsel.info/rechtshulp/gratis-advocaat/
It will then cost you a maximum of 129 or 188 euros of personal contribution.
You may even get those costs back if you win.
Probably works much faster (maybe a few days) than via Ombudsman.
I did some searching for you and found this lawyer:
http://www.roestsingh.nl/nl/ons-team/mr-drs-je-groenenberg.html, this one has had something like this on hand before, I read.
… addition: if you are deregistered from NL, I assume that the subsidized legal aid flyer will not work.
Hans,
To begin with, I strongly advise you not to start it yourself, but to call in an expert.
I was lucky at the time that I was helped to such a person through Thailandblog. I don't want to advertise unnecessarily through this way, but you can send me an email: [email protected].
This expert specializes in tax matters related to Thailand and can also help you with problems with the SVB, for example.
Regards,
If you have been deregistered in the Netherlands, the claiming party may immediately seize your SVB or other benefit in full.
So do you have a tax debt that you have not paid? or you have some other kind of debt.?
Because you no longer live in the Netherlands, you are essentially outlawed. That makes sense, who should a creditor recover from if you no longer live in the Netherlands? Jan
I also have problems with the tax authorities. In 2014 I was taxable in the Netherlands for 3 months, I emigrated on 01-04-2014, and received an assessment of € 8560, they charged tax over a whole year. I need to get money back! Asked for an explanation about this 4 months ago. Nothing heard. I did receive a letter from the tax authorities which was sent to an address of a hotel where I lived for a while 2 years ago. It was about something else. Sent a letter with a complaint that they used the wrong address, although with the correct zip code, again 2 months ago, in short, a hopeless institution in my eyes. Soon I will also have to pay that unjustified € 8560, because the payment term will expire. The advice to call in the national ombudsman seems to me to be good advice!
I always receive mail from the tax authorities 3 months after sending, because I do not mention the country in the address. It will eventually arrive after a tour of Taiwan, Hanoi and Manila. The response from the call service: You have provided an incorrect address. I didn't provide an address at all. The call service receives address information from the GBA. The SVB and my pension fund, which also receive the address from the GBA, no problem. When asked how to proceed, just change the dates, no, that's all possible, but not like that. I'll just wait and see because there are must be on the road again. If the person asking the question does not receive any mail from the blue brigade, it is possible that an assessment will not reach him, including the reminders, etc., resulting in a wage/pension garnishment.
Gr. Jan.
There is, of course, anything and everything to be said about a problem such as this, to such an extent that it can come down to speculation. The text raises questions. For example, the first paragraph already: over a period of 3 months, payments have not been made and the holiday pay has also been withheld. For the record, the question then arises whether these non-payments related to the year 2013. Apparently, because it is then reported that in 2014, a deduction was made again twice, bringing the total of unpaid payments to almost 2 euros.
Thus: has the Tax and Customs Administration or the SVB paid this money yet? Was there any correspondence or anything about those deductions afterwards? If so, what was the result of this? Was it ever made clear in any way why and why the payouts were not made? If not, have you, Hans, agreed to the non-payments? In short: what were the next steps?
October 2015 again the message from the SVB that deductions will be made again from mid-November, up to 21 euros per month. They do not state until what term. Not even for any reason(s). But who says that the address is not known? The Tax and Customs Administration itself, or the SVB on behalf of the BD? Which raises the question: have you Hans had contact with the BD at all, for example in 2013, 2014, and in recent weeks following the letter from the SVB?
It is unclear to me why and why the SVB is an extension of the Tax and Customs Administration. Also what is the connection with global organizations that work for poor countries? Also how the NL Embassy can be used in this matter as suggested in a response. And whether withholding a large part of an AOW benefit turns out to be inhumane treatment is debatable, because it depends on the underlying causes. Maybe it's all very legit. Try to separate main issues from side issues, and do not add unnecessary explanations. Makes things even more muddy.
What could be the underlying causes: have you ever had a problem with the Tax and Customs Administration? Been in TH for 9 years and always been on speaking terms with the BD? Isn't there something about those 9 years? Did the tax transition from NL to TH go smoothly in 2006? Are there any forgotten progress?
Complicated procedures through Ombudsmen will not work. They do not provide solutions for individual cases, and certainly not in terms of content. Only the process-related side, and then only if there is a certain pattern, which in several cases causes people to be duped. Calls to tax experts and mediation of legal advisers? I'd say don't start. It's going to cost a lot of money and you don't have that anymore.
Then what? Just deposit all personal administration before leaving for TH on the table, go through it, and classify it. You are the one who knows your own tax and financial situation best over the years. The same with that of 2006: the year in which your emigration became a fact, and at which moment the Tax and Customs Administration is eager to look. And then the administration from 2007, and in particular 2013/14. What has been going on that will collect the BD in 2013? Is this a misunderstanding? A change of persona? Are there mistakes in the game? How did you react to that? Were those deductions correct? If not, why not solved? Have you lodged an objection? Received a letter from the Tax Inspector? Do you know the name of a tax officer who was involved with your issue at the time? If so, call or write to them! If not, did you let that 5 thousand euros run in 2013/14? And so on!
Once you have mastered your own current situation, call the BD. Find out who you can contact, arrange a contact, and make thorough agreements. Be prepared, be combative, know what you are talking about, and provide yourself with arguments. There will be correspondence and email traffic, and perhaps a plane trip to Heerlen. M curious!
Hans, do you live near Chiang Mai?
Perhaps a stupid question, but have you deregistered from the Netherlands, registered with the tax authorities as a non-resident taxpayer and completed the corresponding tax return?
If not, the tax authorities will indeed owe you money.
That would at least explain the wrong address.
hello Hans,
the tax number. abroad is nl 55 5385385 Heerlen.
Furthermore, you must file a complaint with the SVB and the tax authorities abroad = PO Box 2865 = 6401 DJ Heerlen via EMS, which costs approximately 800 baht. the manager coordinator for the complaints handlers is mr. Cornelissen in Amsterdam, tel. nl 6 21139389. I also have a contact in man. team mrs. de Jong de Quillettes, she helps me with everything and also mr. Kuipers head of foreign taxes. I know a little, I would like to make contact with them. the letter from the SVB and the file. number of the tax authorities are important,
Greetings
jürgen
ps.: the attachment-free foot is legally 10% of the total net income minus costs, charges, etc.
Then why am I reading on the following website: http://www.judex.nl/rechtsgebied/incasso_%26_beslag/derdenbeslag/artikelen/828/wat-is-een-beslagvrije-voet_.htm
that an attachment-free foot normally amounts to 90% of the social assistance standard? So that will be more than the 21 Euro per month.
http://www.judex.nl/rechtsgebied/uitkeringen_%26_sociale_zekerheid/bijstandswet/artikelen/838/hoe-hoog-is-de-bijstandsuitkering_-.htm
I see much higher amounts there, which no one can seize. No tax office either. They can't just withhold that much money and they don't.
How do you explain that 21 Euro, other than that he may have done something wrong with his address and therefore, as it were, does not “exist”. Did he send in his “alive statement” every year, as everyone should? Or does that not exist in the Netherlands? It always has an official stamp from your bank or immigration service with your current address. Surely that should be enough?
Does the so-called P-account not exist in the Netherlands? That is a bank account, where you have at least a minimum untouchable income. The same applies to your normal income. This is the case in Germany. In my case, I would at least have at least 1450 Euro left over to live on (as a couple) in case of seizure. And that amount increases as you have persons liable for maintenance, such as a child who lives with you, etc. And so far I have not found anything anywhere that indicates that you do not have that right, when you put your income in the make up abroad.
But that's Germany. Apparently the Netherlands does not have that right.
In Germany you therefore have a few weeks to convert your normal account to a P account if it is seized.
I just saw a web page with the so-called garnishment-free foot. Shouldn't that also apply in your case? https://www.kbvg.nl/4099/ik-heb-schulden/beslagvrije-voet.html
Then you should still have enough money to live on, in case of debts. And if it is only because of the address, then it is still important, as soon as possible (with a confirmation from your local immigration service, to make a document stating your current address! Or have you indicated your address in the Netherlands, while you spend most of your time in Thailand?
If @Hans' pension generously exceeds the 1100 euros per month. exceeds this, nothing stands in the way of the Tax and Customs Administration claiming his AOW. Or did you really think that he should be walked around from 21 euros monthly?
Of course the sentence should be: …….. have to live on 21 euros a month?
If you live in Thailand, you are NOT entitled to an attachment-free foot, logically, it is impossible to check what your income and assets are.
Nico B
You can have this if you can prove that you have no other income. In Thailand that can be done, I assume, because in 90% of the cases you are not allowed to work -> so no extra income.
If the person concerned does not live or reside permanently in the Netherlands, no attachment-free foot applies. So, for example, if you live in Spain and receive an AOW benefit from the Netherlands, then when this benefit is seized, the entire benefit will go to the attachment creditor. Only if the debtor demonstrates that he has insufficient means of subsistence will the subdistrict court judge, upon request, still determine an attachment-free rate. The burden of proof of the income position then lies with the person concerned.
The height of the garnishment-free foot in this situation does not have to be equal to the garnishment-free foot as it is normally calculated. The price level and standard of living in the relevant country can be taken into account.
So you have to take into account that you are not allowed to enjoy the added value of your money in Thailand, but that you have to be just as poor as in the Netherlands..... 🙁
The SVB is the executor of the attachment imposed by the Tax and Customs Administration.
The SVB is not an extension of the BD, if the BD seizes there will be a correct or incorrect reason, which one? you have to ask the BD, that will not appear from the letter from the SVB.
As soon as you know why the BD has seized, you can judge whether that is correct or not.
If necessary, you can object, if that is too late, with a request to do so ex officio.
An incorrect address at the tax authorities after so many years? Report your correct address.
Send all correspondence by registered mail.
For a faster solution you can also call the BD and ask how things are going, maybe then the penny will also fall with you.
If you can't find a solution, then hire a tax advisor, who will certainly get things out of the way.
I recently heard from someone that he had a dispute with the SVB about the amount of the state pension. He urgently complained to the Ombudsman, who intervened immediately and the dispute was settled within a few weeks. Or that this is also the right way? no guarantee.
Asking the Embassy for help with this kind of problem, while you do not have the facts, does not seem the right way to me, but not shooting is always wrong, email the Embassy and submit that.
I endorse what Soi writes, the information provided is too little to give specific advice, but maybe you have been helped on your way.
A competent tax consultant can be found on the website of the NVT Pattya, http://www.martyduijts.nl, is sometimes in Thailand, has an office in Raamsdonksveer in the Netherlands.
Success.
Nico B
Hi Hans,
I am a tax advisor in the Netherlands and currently on holiday in Thailand. I suspect you had to file a tax return and didn't, the return may not have reached you or some other cause. The result is that the BD will attack you ex officio. The assessments also do not reach the right address, resulting in attachment of the income. You can call the tax authorities, but that will be a bit expensive.
Tax Telephone Abroad: (+3155) 5 385 385 if you have your social security number at hand it will help you. Twitter is also possible @Belastingdienst good luck
This is speculation on my part, but I suspect that it is about overpaid tax credits that you now have to pay back. I think they still keep an address in the Netherlands that has not changed or has not been passed on. If they send an attack to the old address, you don't know anything about it. It can sometimes take months for everything to be passed on. I had the same with tax credits that I had to pay back was a lot of money. Received an attack almost every year for 4 or 5 years. Good luck.
Please note: contrary to what is suggested in some responses, if you live abroad, you must ensure that the Tax and Customs Administration has the correct address. That also applies if you stay in TH like @Hans and many others. Only if someone lives in NL, the new address is automatically passed on by the municipality to all NL authorities when moving within NL.
If someone deregisters from the Municipality for example because of emigration to TH, the Municipality will automatically pass on the new address in TH idem to, for example, the Tax and Customs Administration and SVB.
A subsequent move in TH and therefore a new address must be made known (!) to the Tax Authorities, SVB, Pension Fund, Bank, and others. It also seems completely logical to me.
In other words: someone who gives an address of a hotel in TH upon departure and deregistration from NL, and rents an apartment somewhere from there, would be wise to inform the BD of this change of address. Otherwise, any correspondence will continue to be sent to that hotel address.
The Tax Authorities' website, International section, clearly describes how to act in the event of an “international” move. Also, for example, about what to do if someone abroad has opened a new bank account, for example TH. A PDF form can be downloaded from that site, which you can complete on your PC/laptop, then print and send. After about 3 weeks, call the tax telephone and verify whether the new address or new bank account number has been received and included in the administration. Whistles from a guy! Don't whine, just do it!
Please note (2): the Tax and Customs Administration wants to make things easier, and is doing so by working more and more digitally, among other things. An initiative that started this month of November, and from which, for example, pensioners living here in TH can absolutely benefit. More and more correspondence is going through MijnOverheid.NL, and everyone can participate by clicking on https://mijn.overheid.nl/ create an account. You can read more about the digital correspondence plans of the Tax and Customs Administration at: http://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontentnl/campagnes/landingspaginas/prive/digitale_post/
In short: adopt a pro-active attitude towards the authorities you are dealing with, ensure that you remain informed, and do not be afraid to participate in the digitizing trend in which administrative life is increased via PC/laptop/tablet/smartphone. Don't keep thinking in terms of stagecoaches and telegraph cables, and don't be fooled into thinking that using a smartphone means staring at a screen all day long. Stick to the pinkies!
Finally: I am often surprised when I read reactions to various postings about banking and taxes, for example, how some people have prepared so little properly, or lose their self-sufficiency in TH. I am not surprised when someone reports that he has lost contact with the NL authorities, which causes administrative processing problems. You end up in a forest of procedures to put things right. The same applies here: prevention is better than cure.
Seems like the same thing I experienced, the tax authorities had seized what they believed to be unpaid assessments. I called and got on the phone and received everything and more back because I am no longer liable to pay taxes in the Netherlands, but they had already withheld tax from my AOW for a few years. So calling and writing helped in my case.
you have entered the correct address, but perhaps you are not registered with the population register
in Thailand.
Maybe it's just the life statement he didn't handle right. The explanation given here is not correct and therefore easy to misinterpret. Have heard many similar stories from people who had the same panic. Good luck with solving.
According to the tax authorities, no wage garnishment can be levied on a disability benefit. Info from 5 minutes ago. Only in case of suspicious criminal activity or serious fraud.
That is an interesting statement from Ko, only Ko where did you get that information? I am very curious, so someone with a high Wao benefit could never get a wage garnishment? To be honest, I don't believe it, especially if you also live in Thailand with your Wao.
I know someone who has a wage garnishment on his Wao, this person lives in the Netherlands.
I like to hear.
Nico B
Dear Ko and NicoB,
Let's keep the discussion clean.
The subject is not about WAO, but about AOW.
WAO is a benefit for rejected employees and is administered by the UWV.
AOW is a benefit for pensioners and is administered by the SVB.
By the way, NicoB knows what the difference is.
Chander
Sorry Chandler, we are not going to chat, with all due respect, this is not about the Aow but about attachment, by the Tax and Customs Administration, and indeed as an Aow'er I know the difference between Wao and Aow.
The topic is called: “Again in the grip of the tax authorities, who knows what to do? So batter.
If someone then starts telling nonsense about attachment, which touches on the topic, I think I should respond to that, so that Thailand bloggers are not put on the wrong track.
As some responders claim that there must be a seizure-free foot, while that is not the case if you live in Thailand, such pertinent errors require some correction and that can best be taken into account given the subject.
With greeting.
Nico B