Reader Submission: Providing emergency aid in Thailand, know the possible consequences!
July 12 will be an exciting day for 32-year-old Belgian Kevin M. On this day, the Thai court will hear his sentence on appeal because of his part in the death of his friend, who is also an ex-employee and friend of his ex. - woman.
The whole story is described on a fundraising website to pay the high lawyer fees and get the best out of it, but here is a short summary.
Kevin came to Thailand with his ex-girlfriend from Belgium in 2009 and together they set up a reasonably successful company. Their love affair ended but the business and mutual relationship continued without any problems as a kind of brother and sister relationship.
His ex-wife then starts a relationship with a man who later comes to work in the business and with whom he also befriends. Over the years, the situation between the new couple deteriorates and after the umpteenth violent threat by the woman's parents, Kevin is called in to calm things down.
He hesitates to go but the threat seemed to be so high that he decided to go to the apartment with a friend. When they arrive there, they find a seething man under the influence of Xanax and alcohol (the substances mentioned according to well-informed sources). Eventually a struggle ensues and the victim is held in a stranglehold by Kevin. At the time police arrived, the victim was technically still alive but was found dead on the way to the hospital: https://www.
According to the law, one thing is clear, namely that there is a fatality and for the perpetrator the question is whether there may be extenuating circumstances in such a situation. Possibly the combination of alcohol, medication and stress with a reduced blood supply to the brain due to the stranglehold. The victim was a trained man and that in combination with a struggle can give someone "dumb force" so that the perpetrator tries to counteract more because if the victim gets loose, the circumstances can turn around.
In my opinion, the initial sentence of 4 years with a one-year deduction was not unreasonable by Thai standards, but it was nevertheless decided to lodge an appeal, which can then go both ways. The fact remains that if the sentence is higher than 3 years, he will have to leave the country after serving his sentence and will no longer be welcome for the time being, in other words, everything he has built up in Thailand is over.
Curious, I inquired with a criminal lawyer and police inspector and was unpleasantly surprised by my questions, which is why I believe that it can happen to anyone.
Some examples are:
- burglary; burglars break into your house and you sell them a few good hits with your baseball bat that kills one. You are wrong and should only have threatened or otherwise fled if necessary;
- at a market you accidentally run into a person. This one will be difficult and sell you a few blows together with some friends. In defense you give a neat left-right combination and the attacker ends up wrong and dies. You are wrong, beaten too hard;
- they try to rob you and threaten you with a knife; you take the arm turn the blade and the perpetrator falls into it resulting in death; You are wrong because should have knocked the knife out of your hands.
It is also written on this blog that Thais are not very helpful when they see a fight, fight, robbery or accident or that people think it is nonsense to live on a closed mooban or in a well-guarded house, but maybe that attitude is not even that bad if you face the possible consequences and which you are not waiting for at all.
If one is confronted with such a fact, remember that the police can be helpful in weakening the facts so that it can be regarded as self-defense. In court, there is a fatality, so there must be compensation for the next of kin. In the Low Countries, paying for the funeral and compensation is regarded as an admission of guilt, but in Thailand it is a bit more nuanced. After all, the next of kin have costs and possibly less income due to the death of the victim and it therefore shows respect to them if this is paid.
Furthermore, the use of a "expensive" law firm by a foreigner can be misunderstood or seen as misplaced, so use a "good" Thai lawyer and try to have blood samples taken from the victim which may be useful in the future. further course of the case. The most important thing, however, is to have some money on hand so that any deposits can be paid.
This piece is now about the perpetrator, but for the next of kin it is of course exactly the other way around, not to say that I don't wish anyone to have to experience it.
Submitted by Johnny BG
The whole issue is of course a great drama for all parties. Still, I think that the author of the article misses the mark completely with his warning. Because if you are just attacked on the street and you defend yourself in such a way that the attacker dies, there is a completely different situation than Kevin's. By the way, you can defend yourself, but always to an appropriate extent.
I believe that Kevin used excessive force by holding the victim in a suffocating choke hold, with all the associated risks. Kevin was also there with a friend so he wasn't alone. Other options could have been possible. As soon as the victim became aggressive towards Kevin and actually attacked him (but there is no evidence of that. Was Kevin injured?) he could have called the police and reported a criminal offense.
He is therefore in my eyes completely guilty of the death of the victim (it must be your child). The sentence he subsequently receives is quite lenient and in my opinion no reason to appeal. In fact, if I were related to the victim, I would ask the public prosecutor to appeal against the too low sentence.
Sorry but Kevin is just wrong. A young person has been taken away that is very serious. Kevin should just accept his staff in my opinion. Even if it was not his intention to kill the victim, putting someone in a suffocating hold to keep him under control is not and is not allowed. And there is punishment for that.
What I think also plays a role is that you decide to go somewhere where you can imagine in advance that things will get out of hand, because Kevin took a friend with him for a reason. That is also a completely different situation than that there is a burglar in your house. You can't hit them with a baseball bat either, because that's not a defense, it's an attack.
Those 3 examples: would the legal consequences in the Netherlands, for example, be that much different? Also in Dutch criminal law you are not by definition acquitted in such cases.
This is one of the reasons that many remain passive in the event of a calamity in your area... and this is labeled as reprehensible, uninterested or even cowardly... understandable, but equally understandable that even police officers sometimes do their job. experience all such things and then choose to use the white glove technique... after all, they have long experienced that their authority is no longer recognized...
Kevin's big mistake that he went to the person's apartment of his own accord instead of. to call the police.
An attack on your own person in a public place or your private place…..then such will be regarded as self-defense depending on the circumstances
The contribution is also intended to go a little deeper into the fabric 😉
Dutch criminal law has all kinds of gradations, such as emergency defence, aggravated assault resulting in death, manslaughter (if murder cannot be proven). Lawyers can try to link, for example, the combination of alcohol, medication and stress as the main cause of heart failure resulting in death.
In the case of a stranglehold, that could be the final push.
Another factor is that Dutch criminal law also has a difference when severe weather or. violence is allowed. This is the case if personal integrity is compromised. A burglar can enter your house and want to leave with a TV. At that moment you are not allowed to attack, but as soon as you block the front door and the burglar approaches you, your integrity is compromised and you can attack appropriately and hope that he does not fall on a step.
In Thai law, these gradations are not commonplace and are the first to arrive at manslaughter regardless of the circumstances.
From some reactions you can read that you are actually not wise to step into the breach because you could see it coming. Then I think: yes nice and easy to write unless you ever have to decide for yourself in a split second or has there ever been a moment in your life when you were in a threatening situation?
Another point is that depending on the situation, such as emergency aid, burglary or abuse, a decision must be made as to whether or not to do something. I will be from another planet but it's really not going to happen that someone assaults my wife with a knife threat and that I'm going to watch. if the summoned police want to come a little quick. After that my wife will report yes yes
An aggressor can never end up in a victim role, but apparently opinions differ.
Finally, a word about Kevin. Anyone who followed the Mitch Hendriguez case in The Hague also knows what the punishment was for the officers when he was arrested with a fatal outcome due to the use of the neck clamp. For the enthusiast: 6 months conditional and one year probationary period. Under equal circumstances, every citizen in NL should be treated in the same way, which I think would apply in this case in NL.
So there is a world of difference between Dutch and Thai law, but in both cases someone can no longer tell the story.
We also know that a neck clamp cannot be harmless from the incident of the police officer in the Netherlands who applied this to a man who died partly because of this. This caused quite a commotion. Of course, a neck clamp is there to restrain a person and in terms of violence, it is usually a mild action. But it can be as we read here again. Apparently the judge charged and sentenced Kevin with wrongful death. The intention must not have been to kill his friend. The error of judgment has of course already been made when Kevin goes to visit that other friend with a friend. The victim was a trained man, according to info and I estimate that Kevin is not afraid of a small one either. Finding a seething man and then trying to appease. A man apparently under the influence. My experience is that it is often impossible to sail a country with that and taking a step back and asking for help from the local police should have been step 2. That a struggle took place has of course its cause and why did the other man go crazy and it had to come to this. Completely wrong assessment and still Kevin was afraid to go. First feelings are often correct and should not be ignored. Kevin had known this person for some time, so that also says something that has not been sufficiently taken into account. His feelings for his ex girlfriend also play tricks on him. Violence was apparently used by both persons and that substances were taken by the victim that may have resulted in an eventual death has been investigated and taken into account in the decision by the judge. I assume so. But no matter how you get used to it. There is a death to be regretted who might still have been alive if action had been taken in a different way. My estimation is that Kevin was also convicted of wrongful death in the Netherlands. Look before you leap and draw comparisons with other situations is not the right thing to do. Every situation calls for judgment and I don't think any new verdict will be in Kevin's favour. The big question is and remains, has proportional force been used and could it not be solved in any other way. The death is irreversible and apparently the unintended consequence of a possibly ill-considered act, assuming that the information from this piece is correct.
Dear readers,
I would like to personally answer this (my) story. I'm used to reading harsh reactions every time something about my case comes in the media. Although this is still very good and I can follow the logic. But you have to understand that the articles / blog posts you read online do not contain all the information about what really happened. Mainly because the file contains thousands of pages, but also because we ourselves prefer to keep certain things out of the media. And that is certainly not for ourselves, but mainly to protect the family (however strange it may sound) and to keep Siva's name as beautiful as possible. Here are some of my comments…
1. First of all thank you for contributing here at Thailand Blog. What is written is quite correct, although there are obviously so many details missing to make a clear judgment about guilt or innocence and punishment.
2. Perhaps one of the two most important details. First of all, I didn't summon a friend to go there given the situation. We were both already on our way to the next location in Bangkok, it was Friday evening and time to go into the nightlife. My plan was to go and see if everything was okay and then carry on. It was certainly not the first time that an argument had happened there and of course we had no idea what was going to happen that night. So for me it was actually more of a routine check to reassure the parents. Secondly I see coming back here several times that we should have waited for the police. When I received a phone call from Sarah's parents for the first time, I had already advised to call the police. The first call was made HOURS before the situation got out of hand. Between my arrival and the first phone call, there were dozens more calls (proof of this all in the case file). At a certain moment there was contact with the tourist police in the hope that they would understand better English. Here it was simply said that there was nothing they could do unless Sarah called herself. So imagine that the person who is literally threatened with the knife to the throat has to call the police themselves.
3. The case file contains clear evidence (with photos) that I was attacked first. My clothes were completely ripped apart and a video shows how I was first grabbed by the throat. I allowed all of this because I knew what a situation he was in, drunk and not knowing what he was doing and was a good friend. He wanted us to leave or bad things would happen. I said I wasn't leaving until I knew Sarah and the kid were safe. It's only when he also attacked my friend (whom he didn't know) that I intervened.
4. I would like to say this about the neck clamp. I've never been in the military, never done martial arts, and never even fought in my life. You cannot judge what should be done in such a situation. Everything happens in a split second, or so it sure feels. You go out of your way to do the best and at the time to calm him down. Because he was not in a normal way, I don't want to use bad words, but the aggression I saw then I have never seen in my life. By the way, it has also been proven how I held it and this all happened to do as little as possible to it. Other than that I don't want to say anything about this. But before you judge of course you should have a little more experience in such things.
5. As you can understand, I cannot always go into too much detail, but we have also sought a solution for the next of kin. The only question is whether that is enough for them. The article rightly shows that the punishment is not too bad given the situation, but not because we deserve a punishment. Well, because the family has charged us with murder. Where there is a sentence of 15 years to life imprisonment and even the death penalty. Just imagine being told that, while you have tried in good faith to do the best, with all the consequences that entails. So yes then we can be "satisfied" with 3 years, but that still doesn't mean we deserve it.
If there are any further questions, I'll be happy to answer them myself. About the fundraiser itself, you should know that the verdict is already ready in an envelope, nothing can be changed about that. There has already been enormous support from many people for which I am eternally grateful. But I do want you to know that if anything happens to me, the debt incurred for this whole thing falls on other people's shoulders. So the fundraiser is not just for me, but for everyone involved financially in this cause. I always like to see people share their opinions in a civilized way. But it would also be nice and civilized to understand the story from our side and why that fundraiser is vital. I'll meet my fate, don't fear anyone. As long as it's all done correctly.
Thanks in advance!
Kevin
Thank you Kevin for your response and your story gives a much more detailed picture than was proclaimed in this post. Apparently a lot went wrong and that you act at that moment because there is no other option is also not much to discuss. The lack of police help is another phenomenon that I have heard more often in Thailand. Perhaps I would have done the same on the spot in a similar situation. It is and remains difficult to calm down people who are under the influence and go crazy. Clamp the neck to regret and you will have sleepless nights from that. Sometimes you are in the wrong place at the wrong time and things like this happen to you. It is sad that a man has passed away and I wish you strength with the verdict and the punishment. We all get lessons to learn in life and hopefully this is the positive thing that will stay with you in the future.