Reader Submission: After 20 wonderful years in Thailand, probably left within 5 years
Bronbeek
Have had 20 wonderful years in Thailand. Why presumably that I will leave Thailand in 5 years? The reason is because I had a phone call with KTOMM Bronbeek and he told me that there are 6 people on the waiting list.
The best thing would be that I can go there when I'm 80 (in 2 years), later is no problem either. Now I have registered in writing by registered letter + sent the necessary documents to them, also with a letter to put me on the waiting list: www.defensie.nl/onderwerpen/bronbeek/over-bronbeek/tehuis/wonen-in-bronbeek. If you press download, you have the correct data for admission. The requirements are tough, especially the conditions. This does not fall under the AWBZ (ZVW), is financed by the Min. of Defence. Otherwise, you will have to wait, depending on how long you have been deregistered because you have not paid ZVW.
Thailand is still a beautiful country for me for a holiday, but no longer to live and to cancel your entire stay in the Netherlands. I don't agree with the immigration policy here, I think it's being made more difficult for me. My principle is, if you don't agree with the policy, then you have to leave, after all I came here voluntarily.
As far as finances (income) and insurance, it's not a problem for me, at the moment. This is not a whim of mine. I've been working on this in the back of my mind for years. That is why in 2017 I asked Mr de LD de Haan if he would calculate my net income for me if I live in the Netherlands. He did that neatly and for me as a layman to understand.
Submitted by Hans
Why would you want to be principled if you are happy here?
You come here for the land and the people, not the government.
If you leave nothing behind in TH (partner/children) this is indeed a good solution.
If you are (financially) forced to go back to NL, it will be a little less.
Bronbeek is a beautiful location, I have been there a few times in the museum and in the Kumpulaan.
May it go well with you
Towards the end of any response (comment) I may get, I will give my view, will not get personal.
But give my opinion.
From reaction or comment I only learn from,
Hans
Dear Hans, that you want to return to the Netherlands is your own choice and decision. Won't work out. The care sector in the Netherlands has been stripped down considerably.
Bronbeek I know well. My late father, a former KNIL soldier, spent the last years of his life there (†2002) . At the time it was a very good nursing home. It also included a splendor of an Indies museum, and you could eat delicious Indian food. Of course I don't know how things are now.
But I have a question: after 20 years of Thailand, deciding to come to the Netherlands does not just come out of the blue. The reason you say is that Thailand is no longer the country to live in, and that Immigration makes staying in Thailand more difficult. Could you indicate in concrete terms which things in Thailand have brought you to your decision, and which things of the Thai Immigration have come against you? This helps other people who are considering moving to Thailand to get a good picture of how Thailand works in 2019/20. Thanks in advance.
Later the comment now first what conditions there are, which I received from them and downloaded.
I took this literally.
FINANCE/FUNCTIONING. The home does not fall under the Exceptional Medical Expenses Act (AWBZ). The costs of operation and maintenance of the home are borne by the Minister of Defence.
CONTRIBUTION. Medical care such as a doctor, physiotherapist, occupational therapist, medication, etc. is settled with the resident's own health insurance, or, where appropriate, via a (PGB) personal budget from the AWBZ. Residents are required to receive ADL/HDL and nursing care from the Bronbeek military care home. To this end, a written agreement is concluded with the residents before entry. Your personal contribution for accommodation, food and laundry amounts to 60% of your net income.
ADMISSION CONDITIONS The conditions are laid down by Royal Decree and are as follows:
* one must be single
* Be at least 65 years old;
* Belonging to the category of non-commissioned officers/corporals or privates
* Have a minimum of 15 years of military service before retirement
* have served under war conditions or other circumstances comparable in the opinion of the Minister of Defence; have been a prisoner of war or have participated in the resistance, or have voluntarily served outside the Netherlands with a unit that has been placed at the disposal of the United Nations or other international organizations by the Dutch government;
NB In November 2007, the Minister of Defense approved the proposal to also admit former conscripts and short-term volunteers from the period 1940-1962 (Dutch East Indies, Korea and Dutch New Guinea) to KTOMM Bronbeek. To this end, the requirement of 'minimum 15 years of pension as a soldier' lapses for them
* The former soldier must be able to independently perform general daily activities (washing/showering, dressing) upon arrival; NB one cannot be admitted directly to the nursing ward.
* The prospective resident who meets the above conditions must also fit into the residential community of the home and declare himself willing to comply with the rules applicable to residents of the home after admission.
HOSPITAL DEPARTMENT / NURSING DEPARTMENT The home has its own infirmary ward. Residents who do not necessarily need to go to a hospital are cared for and nursed here. Residents who can no longer live independently and who become in need of nursing and who do not need special facilities are also admitted here. In principle, residents are cared for in Bronbeek until their death. Transfer to a nursing home only follows if insufficiently specialized care can be provided by Bronbeek.
Hans
If you can go to Bronbeek and have been doing this for some time, you are probably a veteran.
Are you also a member of the BNMO (Bond of Dutch Military War and Service Victims)?
If you need help related to your military history, they can help you.
If desired, I can put you in touch with them.
All the best with your decision and future
More people should do that, if you disagree with what is happening here, draw your conclusions and go to a place where you can agree more with the policy and whatever.
This is much better than whining about how bad things are here and how much worse things have gotten.
But don't forget the sayings about that greener grass next door and think before you leap.
Go anyway, have fun and have a nice evening of life.
dear Mr. Hans.
you are going to get very cold after a long time in Thailand.
At Bronbeek they take good care of you, but winter is not fun at your age.
All kinds of side effects, rheumatism, etc, think about it carefully.
Much respect for old military, such as Bronbeekers,.
wish you lots of strength and luck.
greetings from a Dutchman, Blanda.
I wish you the best of luck with the decision, and hope you enjoy it there.
I went there in 2017 for an interview.
It is a radical decision for me, but also for the others who live in the Netherlands.
Can only say something about me now.
If I say yes, after I've signed too, I can't go back.
Because I still have a ZKV with VGZ, with country of residence Thailand.
They don't hire people anymore since 01-01-2018, those who have it can continue.
Don't want to live here without ZKV, that's for sure.
I am still obliged to test there for 5 days, whether they accept me or whether I like it.
As it stands now, I say do.
The rest follow the counter reaction I receive, why with a reason on my part.
Hans
And then? What if that test run ends in disappointment? Where are you going to live then?
Will respond to comments I received.
That is my opinion, but not with the intention of persuading you
Ruud's response
You come here for the land and the people, not the government.
Ant) Certainly I come for the people and the beautiful country, that's why I'm having a nice time here, so far.
But I do have to deal with the government (Emigration), that's it now, with which I do not agree.
See my response to Mae Roe
Could you indicate in concrete terms which things in Thailand have brought you to your decision, and which things of the Thai Immigration have come against you? This helps other people who are considering moving to Thailand to get a good picture of how Thailand works in 2019/20. Thanks in advance.
Ant) Do I have to renew my visa every year, my 3 days every 90 months, do I want to collect re-entry proof abroad..
Will I come back the TM 30.
Proof of life every year.
As long as I'm still young and healthy, that's no problem.
Then I don't feel like it anymore, when I'm 80.
Bert's response
If you are (financially) forced to go back to NL, it will be a little less.
Antw) Am not financially forced to go to the Netherlands, can also endure it here.
Have had several operations here including colon cancer and prostate cancer, chemotherapy, last year in the Netherlands suffered a cerebral infarction.
Good help here, also the aftercare.TOP.
If I have an appointment with the hospital, I first email my Dutch ZKV, whether they want to provide a bank guarantee to the relevant hospital.
If the relevant hospital has not yet received the money or too little, hand in the passport and pick it up the next day.
Do I need medication, do I have to pick it up at the doctor + check-up in the hospital, while in the Netherlands, my doctor can call for the repeat prescription, he will forward it to my pharmacy and can pick it up there.
These are now the rules here and in the Netherlands, because I live here and I have to abide by them.
Response from Pete
Are you also a member of the BNMO (Bond of Dutch Military War and Service Victims)?
Ant) I am not a member, but a good friend from Assen is chairwoman there, she is also a therapist at the resilience in Assen for people with PTSD, has a Facebook page. under the name of Uyên Lu, I have arranged contact with her when I am in the Netherlands..
Response from Jan.
you are going to get very cold after a long time in Thailand.
At Bronbeek they take good care of you, but winter is not fun at your age.
All kinds of side effects, rheumatism, etc, think about it carefully.
Ant) I believe so too.
I hope when I have to do those 5 days trial, that the weather is very bad.
Hans
“Certainly I come for the people and the beautiful country, that's why I'm having a nice time here, so far.
But I do have to deal with the government (Emigration), that is it now, with which I do not agree.”
What do you have to do with the government now?
1 day per year for the extension of your visa?
If everything works properly, you can submit your 90-day notification via computer.
At your age, you probably no longer fall into the category of people that the Thai government wants to make a fuss about.
And that difficulty is probably caused in large part by the commentary on the government on Thai Visa, for example.
The comments – from people, many of whom probably live in Thailand – are most likely contributing greatly to the policy of discouraging “living” in Thailand.
There is a good chance that people who read those comments will decide not to go on holiday to Thailand.
Thailand is not waiting for that.
If someone comes to my house and criticizes anything, I will also ask them to leave.
The advantage of Bronbeek is.
It does not fall under the ZWBZ, otherwise it is not possible for me.
See. https://www.zorginstituutnederland.nl/Verzekerde+zorg/remigreren-of-immigreren-wlz
Another advantage, I also have a tax-free benefit from the WUBO in Leiden, according to Article 18 I do not have to declare this to them.
This is not so nice what I read, unfortunately no sequels.
https://www.omroepgelderland.nl/nieuws/2106852/Inspectie-vindt-zorg-in-militair-tehuis-Bronbeek-in-Arnhem-risicovol
Unfortunately I don't have any follow up on this.
But when I was there in 2017 and took a quick look, it looked good.
I have to run a test for 5 days, then I can take a closer look
Hans
I don't think it will end in disappointment.
But if so be on the start or alzheimer's.
Then I registered it with my daughter for 1 year.
Then don't stay here, otherwise there will be more problems.
Then you have to deal with the Thai regulations and the Dutch
Hans
Hans, the waiting time for the WLZ is one year if you have not been insured for the WLZ/AWBZ for more than 12 years. You have been out of the Netherlands for more than 12 years and therefore have a waiting period of one year. You want to circumvent that by appealing to Bronbeek that does not fall, you write, under the WLZ rules.
But Bronbeek demands that you can live independently and requires a trial period. If you don't like it, Bronbeek will not continue. And then there you are! With nothing.
The waiting list is now 6 people, you are number 7, and that can take anywhere from 1 to 10+ years. No one has a crystal ball about the residents of Bronbeek, nor about your medical status. I think that you should also take into account in your assessment what your chances in TH are for care and especially for nursing if something happens to you. You are 78 and then you are not the youngest anymore.
If you need to be cared for within that waiting year, are you better off in TH as you live now, or are you better off in NL with sheltered accommodation, home help, home nursing and the WMO Act until you can be admitted to a WLZ nursing institution? Because if something happens to you, Bronbeek will no longer take you in and you will still have to rely on the WLZ national insurance.
I made the move to NL last year at the age of 71 after 16 years in Thailand. He was then and still can live independently and had a rented house in SW Friesland within three months. I didn't have a health insurance policy in TH since 1-1-2006, luckily you still do.
As far as I'm concerned, you will turn 100 in good shape, but again, that crystal ball...... Maybe you should consider registering for a sheltered housing in NL and you find something nice and affordable, then take that step. Or arrange that you can be NURSED in Thailand, and that is more difficult to arrange than care.
If so, I have already looked for many options.
I could also come here if I have dementia or Alzheimer's.
The manerger is a woman from San Francisco.
For 24-hour nursing, the costs in 2016 are 45000 Th.b.
They also arrange the visas for you, but for a fee.
Are you an ongoing patient and do you need limited care, including showering. 33000Th.b.
There were also foreign vacationers who live there temporarily, because they broke their leg, with a wheelchair.
But my goal is Bronbeek.
https://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/citylife-articles/dok-kaew-gardens-chiang-mais-first-retirement-home-for-expats-and-thais/
I have visited several times and also had a conversation with the residents.
Hans
There is also a state hospital nearby.
Went to look, told her but I don't want to lie there.
It is usually intended for the people who are not insured, or for the Thai.
Am insured, so it will be RAM, I told her.
Hans
Ruud I have no criticism of emigration, it's their rules and I have to abide by them.
I myself wrote on Thailand blog on Wednesday that I will be outside again in Changmai in 1.1/2 hours.
But I don't want that anymore, that's okay
If you have read further, at Bert's response.
I think the Thai hospitals are TOP.
But I don't want that anymore, that's okay.
I don't care what anyone else does.
Should it be the case that I do stay here, then I have to accept it, it is their government rules and I have to abide by them.
I have an opinion, but so can you.
Hans
Read Ruud carefully.
Have written Thailand is a beautiful holiday country, but not to live and give up all your possessions in the Netherlands.
My grandson and granddaughter in law have been on holiday here for the 2nd time this year.
My 2 granddaughters last year.
So I do promote Thailand
Hans