I have the same experience as Peter, who is here on February 6, 2019, reports that his girlfriend's visa application was rejected. And run into the same problem, the visa for my girlfriend was and is regularly refused.
Here's my experience and some tips.
At the beginning of October 2018, I visited my girlfriend for the first time with a free month tourist visa. I too had met her through an internet site. After regular contact, first texting and then video chats, it turned out to be nice between us and I decided to visit her in Thailand.
She lives in northeastern Thailand, in the Isan in a small village near Fao Rai in Nong Khai province. The visit was extremely positive and family also appreciated the visit.
We thought it would be a good plan to show her the Netherlands and get to know her. At the beginning of October 2018, we applied for a visa for the Netherlands for her through the embassy in Bangkok, but it was refused, it was then the beginning of November. At that time I was still in Thailand. I went back to the Netherlands in mid-November 2018 and she applied for a visa again, which was again refused.
Based on the first rejection, I submitted an objection to the IND, which was also rejected after 4 months. Is the beginning of March 2019. The reason for reapplying was that the procedure for the IND would take 12 weeks before they would make a decision and we wanted to spend Christmas together in the Netherlands.
My girlfriend is a widow, lives alone, has no children living at home or any other duty of care, has her own paid-off home, lands on which rice is grown, land on which there are rubber trees that can be tapped. She is also completely self-sufficient, which means that she has no fixed regular substantial income and can provide for her own needs.
Last week I finally got a decision from the IND after 4 months and her visa was still refused. For the IND, her self-sufficiency is a reason to reject her request because she has no economic connection to return to Thailand. After all, she can rent out her house and outsource the harvest. She does not have to be present in Thailand for this. Title deeds of land and house have been issued at the embassy in Thailand, but are not included with the notice of objection here.
Proof of a relationship such as photos have also been issued in Thailand, but not here. Mistake and a learning moment. I thought that the IND and the embassy in Bangkok would communicate with each other? Unfortunately, this turns out not to be the case. I have the impression that whether or not a visa is granted depends on who processes the application in Kuala Lumpur and at the IND.
In the meantime, after the first rejection and before submitting the objection, I explained the course of events in Thailand during a conversation with an IND employee, and the employee got the impression that in Kuala Lumpur it was a matter of “ arbitrariness”.
The IND also indicated that there was insufficient evidence of a relationship and no proof of my presence in Thailand, no copy of passport with visa stamps and photos included.
This is my experience so here are a few tips after two rejections from Kuala Lumpur and one from the IND.
Further tips:
- A copy of your own passport with the stamps/visas of your visit to Thailand.
- Send photos on which you are both visible in Thailand.
- Proof that there is a relationship, how…..?
When my girlfriend applies for a visa to visit a family or friend, another stack of papers comes out. All relatives must be listed here, unfortunately I have also omitted this.
Turned out to be an instructive but expensive and lengthy lesson afterwards.
Am planning to visit again in early April, now had to go home due to periodic outpatient treatment, unfortunately can't carry out Thailand.
Submitted by Gerrit
Strange all Gerrit, I met my girlfriend over 6 months ago via the internet and because it clicked great she flew to Bangkok and applied for a tourist visa by appointment at vfs global (of course provided with all the necessary papers from both of us). She was treated very kindly there after a long wait and everything was fine according to them. After a week I received an email with part of the guarantee form where a question turned out not to be completed, I printed this out, signed it, scanned it and emailed it to my girlfriend, who then emailed it to vfs and a week later she had the passport with tourist visa in the bus.
So it is possible.
My advice: appeal every rejection. Few do, but in about half of the cases a visa will still be issued (during the time that I did many visa objections as a lawyer, I won 9 out of 10).
Unfortunately, it is generally no longer possible to use funded legal aid in visa procedures.
If the application for the Schengen visa is unsuccessful, it may be an option for you to apply for the MVV visa. In fact, the request is never rejected.
My girlfriend took the exam at the Dutch embassy a long time ago and received her MVV without any problems. A good teacher in Bangkok to prepare your girlfriend is Richard van der Kieft, more information can be found on his website http://www.nederlandslerenbangkok.com.
Good luck.
These stories do make me curious how my partner's visa application that will be submitted next week will go. I think I have understood that ultimately only a few percent of the applications are rejected, but it is of course extremely bitter if you appear to fall into that category.
In any case, as a guarantor, I have drawn up an explanation that will be attached to the application. Furthermore, a statement from her employer regarding permanent employment, granted leave and continued employment after return. Should work (I hope……….).
Dear Cornelis, about 95% of the Thai get their visa. It is of course very disappointing if you fall outside the boat. There are also mebs who have made mistakes, a visa application is a bit more difficult than getting a stamp. The information provided has improved over the years, but it is still not super good and simple / clear. With the Schengen file to help, I hope you will succeed. With attention, good hat on no red flags it will certainly be fine.
Figures for 2018 will be available on the EU website within a month. For previous analyses, see:
https://www.thailandblog.nl/visum-kort-verblijf/afgifte-van-schengenvisums-in-thailand-onder-de-loep-2017/
If I understand correctly, are you bringing them here on your own funds and means?
What if you totally guarantee her in everything?
It is true that you will then have to meet the IND/embassy requirements and have enough salary, sufficient bank balance, possibly proof of employment. That's what they ask for. I thought 3 months of your bank balance, ins and outs. Employer statement. I also obtained an invitation letter from the municipality.
You will need to have emergency medical insurance for her. which covers at least 3 million bath. You can take out this online in the Netherlands, which is handy since it is also in the Netherlands. I did in 2017. Allianz thought, see
https://www.reisverzekeringblog.nl/reisverzekering-buitenlanders/
I sent all the necessary OFFICIAL papers to her, by registered mail, after which she applied in BK. With me it went on equity and probably approved because of her government job.
You may want to try on your warranty.
Do know that if she arrives at Schiphol, she will be interrogated separately. Even with obtained visa.
So did my girlfriend then and even though she is a government official. Even took an hour for her to come out of the terminal.
Now that people know her profile: someone who can easily earn money in the Netherlands without being present in Thailand, guaranteeing will really not help. All previous applications via the Netherlands or other Schengen embassies are in the database. With the new applications, the previous rejections were already seen. Then you are already 2-0 behind. Unless you come up with new facts that wipe out the reason for earlier rejection.
That is why it is also wise to appeal against a rejection. Then you can make mincemeat of the previous rejection. It may be a good move to do this together with a professional (lawyer).
A new application instead of an objection is a good option if you have forgotten a simple piece of paper. The Netherlands is no longer so lenient with sending supporting documents. A new application will then probably be completed faster than starting the objection mill.
Incidentally, a tourist can be interrogated after arrival. You can usually continue or after answering 1-2-3 questions (what are you doing? Where are you going? Etc). The border guards don't have time to cut through everyone. But if the border guard thinks something is wrong, you will indeed be put in a separate room. Perhaps because the traveler seemed nervous, or unsure, or vague, could not show an answer or papers (take everything in hand luggage that was also shown for the application). Of course, this can also be due to the border guard who makes a wrong assessment or who has just had a course and is a bit too fanatical to try out new knowledge on a traveler. But such an interrogation is certainly not standard.
When you applied for a visa for her, how long did it take? Usually people are more tolerant the first time if you only apply for 1 month.
Dear Gerrit,
You meet for the first time in October 2018 and that same month you apply for a visa for her.
Therein lies the problem.
You cannot demonstrate that you have a reasonable (long) lasting relationship.
You cannot speak of a lasting relationship with chat messages and they are swept off the table.
I knew my girlfriend for 1,5 years and during that period I traveled 4 times by plane within Thailand.
So my plane tickets were proof that we had known each other for 1,5 years.
Got her visa without any problems (even 2 times).
Good luck in advance.
Gino.
I only knew my girlfriend from the internet for 6 months and then she wanted to come to me!
Well OK, usually the man first goes for a real introduction, but she did that in reverse.
So she came to the Netherlands, no problem.
And no, I'm not very young (60) and no she (51) isn't either.
So your statement that it is because of that is not correct.
I've never had to provide proof of a relationship and she's already been here twice.
Gerrit
In a letter to the embassy you must demonstrate that there is a relationship. Especially photos
what you stand on together, the way you got to know each other. The development and course
of the relationship. Otherwise they don't feel good about it
A strong reference works wonders…is the age difference very big?
A bank account with enough money and a CC in her name is also worth trying…
a tourist trip to the Netherlands via a travel agency ( greenwood travel ) is an option.
€ 30 euros per day that is what she must have as security.
Guarantee statement…. and invitation through the municipality where you live.
Dear Gerrit,
There have been many questions on this subject.
Before I give another story and advice I would give the blog again
read well.
Problem 1 is you can't prove you're in a long-term relationship.
Issue 2 are very important Photos (kind). That you are good and longer together.
Problem 3 details and address of family.
Particularly point 2 is the important point where most requests are made
to be rejected.
Yours faithfully,
Erwin
Dear Gerrit,
We have also had 3 rejections on the same grounds.
It's a pity they didn't explain it better to us!
Rejection because we have not sufficiently demonstrated that she has enough ties with the home country.
2nd reason not sufficiently demonstrated where she is staying in the Netherlands despite my passport, accounting and guarantee.
Called the Ministry of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, referred to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and lodged an objection there.
They have forwarded this objection to the Dutch embassy in Bangkok for processing.
Only then did we get a better explanation!
All proof of ownership must be translated and legalized! We had submitted this in Thai!
To show where she is staying, you must write a letter inviting her to come to the Netherlands and why! Such as relationship and getting to know your family and further building your relationship. Add photos of you together.
Got the visa for the 4th time in three days!
Good luck!!
MVG
Evert
Thai is not spoken in Kuala Lumpur and soon in The Hague. So yes, Thai documents without translation cannot be read and nothing is done with it. And especially now that the policy is hardly to allow recovery (redirection), you will have a rejection in the mail. That is why I also insist on the provision of translations (of the most important papers) in the Schengen file.
A visa application is mainly done from the perspective of what is nice for the official and not the citizen/traveller. A nice stack of paperwork. Checkout!
here is my first experience, in February 2019 my girlfriend submitted the application for a 3-week visit to NL at the embassy in Bangkok.
In addition to the standard papers (guarantor statement, ticket, insurance), we focused extra on the question “what is the motive for returning to Thailand”. Fortunately, she has a job, so in addition to an employment contract, we have included a statement from the employer stating his expectation that she will return. Furthermore, a statement about the family situation, that she is an only daughter and has to take care of her elderly mother. She has no children of her own.
At the embassy, the official only asked questions about our relationship and the application file had to be completed with photos of both of us and copies of Thai visa stamps from my passport. A multi-entry visa for a month is issued within a week.
My advice, make sure that third parties, such as an employer or family/friends, provide written statements to make "motive to return" strong. Also leave a phone number with those statements.
after a first justified rejection (girlfriend had written a lot of nonsense on her application form because well, after all, she and her friends know everything better), buckets full of tears, ... engaged a law firm, which investigated the file and judged that the case was based on language misunderstanding and a retake is possible. they then arranged the entire file and yes, visa was granted.
I am sorry to read all this, but I also tried three times to have a friend come here on holiday with a visa for a maximum of 30 days. By here I mean Belgium, but I don't know if that makes a difference, the fact is, and I know this from a conversation with the ambassador personally, that an embassy may never refuse a visa, only in case of doubt will the file be forwarded to the foreign affairs department in the country in question, and that service then has to make the decision.
This service has certain rules that they follow and when you see what's outside queuing people this is also not exactly in your favor, too much work with too few people. The embassy has doubts and the dvz follows this. The biggest and most common problem is that there is too little evidence that the lady in question shows that she will return to Thailand and leave the country before the required date. And that's the problem, they can't substantiate that, but you can't prove the opposite either, but then really prove it and no more word of honor or something solid, no, just prove it in court, how?. The lady in question really needs to pull out all the stops on paperwork and hard proof that she is really going back, and that there are real reasons to return.
If that evidence isn't enough, then forget it and that's what I eventually had to do, too bad, and if someone made an effort it's certainly me, but nothing helped. Also adding that whether you take a lot of pictures or not, none of them count, your proof is your passport and the stamps in it, but again make it watertight on the Thai side and you have the best chance of getting a visa . Furthermore, I wish you all the best of luck in obtaining your visa.
Try to contact the law firm Servaas in Amsterdam.
http://www.mvvaanvraag.nl/advocatenkantoor-servaas/
Try attorney Sarkisian. Has a lot of experience with IND – Thailand
have a walk-in consultation hour every third Thursday of the month. Prepare your questions WELL and put them on paper. Can clarify many things.
http://www.mvvaanvraag.nl/tarieven/