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The topic “ABN-AMRO discharges account holders from outside Europe” has already been written a number of times by readers. Those were individual contributions from the readers who live in Thailand, but Trouw of January 3, 2020 contains a complete story about this.
The essence is: banks have a heavy control obligation in the context of money laundering. The banks have already received hefty fines for not checking enough. They attract hundreds of people for this and they throw out the customers that require a lot of work, for example because they live abroad. The bank considers them too expensive and too risky.
ABN-AMRO will soon close the accounts of 15.000 customers who live outside the European Union. The divested group of international customers is not only relatively expensive, but also entails the risk of fines. If the bank offers financial products, it must comply with both Dutch and foreign regulations. And that is becoming increasingly complex. It takes ABN-AMRO a lot of time to follow the regulations of the different countries. That is why ABN-AMRO will simply focus on Europe. If the foreign customer cannot find an alternative bank, they can turn to ABN-AMRO for help. But, says the ABN-AMRO spokesperson, “in the end, they often really have to open an account with a local bank abroad”.
I understand it, but it is also difficult. A transfer from Thailand to the Netherlands is possible, but it is just very expensive. The only solution is probably to ask a Dutchman to open an account in his/her name. Must be a close relative, otherwise you won't succeed.
Source: Faithful – www.trouw.nl/economie/abn-amro-loost-clients-buiten-europa~b675c582/
Submitted by John
Isn't the Trouw a bit behind?
Anyway, if we talk about it again:
The kifid writes (perhaps wrote in the meantime, but I still have the printout) on its website. The ABNAMRO says that it does not have a license to bank outside Europe.
The ABNAMRO says that the kifid has made a ruling that the ABNAMRO does not have a license to bank outside Europe.
The kifid has made (at least) 3 judgments, in which the ABNAMRO has been put in the right.
All three statements are not based on the fact that ABNAMRO does not have a license, but on the text: IF A bank does not have a license, it may not offer banking services.
Whether or not the ABNAMRO has a permit is left open.
So those statements are based on nothing.
The reason for this is clear, ABNAMRO DOES have a permit.
It offers worldwide banking through ABNAMRO MeesPierson, if you only have a million euros in your account.
Both the ABNAMRO and the kifid state that ABNAMROMeesPierson is no more than a trade name, and therefore simply ABNAMRO. (they lost their way a bit here, because they probably didn't want to say that)
The statement of the kifid is therefore also somewhat strange, it states that ABNAMROMeesPierson does not have a license to bank worldwide, because ABNAMRO does not have a license to bank worldwide.
That is of course a strange conclusion if ABNAMROMeesPierson offers worldwide banking.
The reasoning works the other way around: If ABNAMROMeesPierson offers worldwide banking and is no more than a trade name, ABNAMRO apparently DOES have a licence.
It should be clear that the kifid may be independent, as she herself says, but by no means impartial.
You can of course also question that independence, since the banks and insurers foot the bill.
And it is of course not excluded, and perhaps even probable, that the end-of-year bonus could be proportional to the number of rulings to the detriment of the customer.
But with the verdict of the kifid in hand, I then submitted a complaint to the AFM and the Dutch Bank, which ABNAMRO (until now) does my banking for, without having the necessary permits.
I received a response from the Dutch Bank that I had an interesting file.
But you will never hear from those authorities what they have done.
But maybe a good example is good to follow.
Flood the kifid with 15.000 complaints and, contrary to what I have done, do not opt for a binding verdict.
No, Ruud, Trouw is not a bit behind. It is a very recent message from Trouw, from the ABNAMRO spokesperson.
I have a lot of admiration for your perseverance in your fight against this bank BUT with this comment and your comments you are talking about a different playing field! Simply put, you are talking about a different match, in a different playing field!
The playing field you speak of is the following. The bank says: I MUST not and therefore CAN'T because I don't have a permit.
The playing field I am talking about, about which the Trouw is talking, is the following. The bank says: I CAN do it but I don't WANT it. It's too much work.
So it is not said here: "I do not have a permit"
The outcome is the same: no bill for people living outside the EU. But even in normal matches you sometimes have the same result on different playing fields!
What I want to show are the lies of both the bank and the kifid.
Moreover, I want to show that the kifid is not impartial.
Within my file, the kifid rejected my complaint with deception and lies.
There is of course also a difference between a bank that MAY not provide services and that does not WANT to provide services.
If a bank is not allowed to provide services, it also ends with regard to the duty of care.
If a bank does not WANT to provide services, the bank's duty of care counts very heavily in my opinion and closing accounts is much more difficult.
It seems to me that it will be very difficult for the bank if everyone objects to closing the account.
Does a Dutch bank check where you live? In the negative: do not report your emigration. Make sure you have that bank account on a PO box number or at the address of a family member well before emigration and you can continue to burp as if nothing is wrong. I think, but I give my opinion for a better…..
A and/or account with a family member, registered at his/her address perhaps?
Just via internet banking, ehhhhh, banking.
So it just seems possible
When I came to Thailand for the first time in 2000, I started looking for a Dutch bank
Both ABN AMRO and ING had a branch in Bangkok at the time
And just googling shows that the ABN is still active worldwide, for example Japan, US, Australia, South Africa and South America.
https://www.abnamro.com/en/about-abnamro/products-and-services/international/north-america/index.html
https://www.abnamro.com/en/careers/international/japan/index.html
and that could all be done without a banking license.
Tooske, see my response to Ruud. AbnAmro doesn't say HERE: “I don't have a permit” but says I don't WANT it. Too much work. Apparently they want it for expats. But according to the linguists, these are people who are sent abroad, usually temporarily, and then often go back to their mother country.
And this from the bank that in 2015 in Dubai itself bottled up the case with money laundering. It once again confirms that banks, not just ABN AMRO, no longer feel like doing what they owe their right to exist, managing customers' money, making a profit on loans and providing service. After closing almost all offices in the Netherlands and outsourcing almost all their activities (last year even the credit assessment of mortgages) and therefore also their staff, they have become paper, bureaucratic, unreachable monsters sitting on a huge bag of money. Even that doesn't really matter to them, because they get free money in Europe. This move to make life difficult for former compatriots fits exactly into that picture. I would prefer to receive my money in cash without the intervention of a bank. Just like back in the 70s when I started working and Friday was payday. But of course that is no longer possible. People (government and banks) want to ban cash completely, especially in the Netherlands. A payment of more than 3000 euros in cash will soon no longer be possible. That really goes against my sense of justice. Full government control.
Fortunately, banks in Thailand still realize that their customers must be able to reach them and that personnel costs are part of business operations. I hope that lasts a long time.
Interesting story. I arranged it differently. By purchasing a garage box from which I can work as a freelancer. Do I have an address in the Netherlands where I can receive my mail? My car with Dutch registration is also parked here. When I am in the Netherlands I have transport.
Obviously I don't have an ABN/AMRO account. First, I don't want to do business with a subsidized bank in which the government has a major interest. and secondly, in disputes and judgments of the Dutch Judges, De Nederlandse bank, in my opinion, this bank is in favor of the national interest'.
I just want to indicate that with an investment of about 25.000 euros anyone can bank wherever they want. After all, there is a Dutch branch.
Regards Anthony
I have not had an account in the Netherlands since 2012. However, I still had to have a bill for some payments. That is why I opened an account in Germany (at the border) with my father. However, my father has become too old to go to that bank and there were always problems with internet banking. Since November I have closed that account and I immediately get my money transferred to Thailand. That's fine.
The few payments I still have to make in the Netherlands and Germany are made using Bitcoin. I buy them here, sell them in the Netherlands via BTC Direct and the Euros are transferred by them to any desired Bank Account. Cost? As good as nothing. And usually the money is in the account within twelve hours, sometimes even within a few hours. If it comes later, that depends on the bank.
Actually, it is also not necessary to keep a bank account in a country where you do not live.
And of course this also offers the advantage that I can now prove a monthly deposit into a Thai account, if this is necessary for the next visa extension.
The disadvantage is that I had to request a credit card from my bank here for some things. But that wasn't a problem either...
So before they could kick me out, I had left voluntarily long ago….
Hello men, we want to live in Thailand but still love Dutch banks?
Erik, you mean well, but it doesn't work that way anymore. By the way, if someone had put the bad currency euro in a Thai bank and converted it into baht, the money would have been worth at least 15 percent more.
And transfer money that you of course NOT every month but once every 5-6 months.
The future is not in the EU but in Asia.
And certainly don't open an account with someone else, because there will ALWAYS be a problem!
As always: solve it yourself!
Get well soon.
There are countless cloud banking solutions.
N26 is the simplest and you can simply have your benefit/pension/income received there and then pay your NL costs without any costs or transfer funds via Transferwise to any location in the world.
Come on people this is the 21st century, the counter is the internet!!
And those cloud banks are covered by the Dutch bank guarantee, if the money has disappeared in a puff of smoke?
Can you name a few good cloud banking solutions? I'm curious about that.
I think Transferwise gives a certain bank guarantee to some extent, but personally I wouldn't transfer my savings to them.
https://transferwise.com/help/11/getting-started/2949821/is-my-money-covered-by-a-financial-protection-scheme
N26? You do need a Dutch address or an address somewhere in Europe for that.
I used N26 myself, but when I told them that I lived 100% in Thailand, I was kindly requested by email to transfer my balance to another account within a month.
They couldn't make it nicer for me.
So advice: residential address Thailand, forget N26.