It is common knowledge that health insurance in Thailand is expensive. Today a message was sent by the friends club in Pattaya with the following announcement. This could be spread further and may be of interest to many.
A health insurance policy with no age limit, no medical examination and no pre-existing conditions: CFE = Caisse des Français de l'Etranger
This is a health insurance fund initially intended for French nationals living abroad. However, since CFE is a private company (which does work for the French Social Security), in 2020 they were also obliged to admit other European citizens and since then people from another country of the European community can also join.
The PROs:
– There is no age limit
– No medical examination required
– No pre-existing conditions
– Valid for inpatient and outpatient treatments
The CONs:
– The waiting time is 6 months, so you pay for the first 6 months and only then does the cover start.
– Reimbursement for in-patient is flat rate:
* 80% is paid directly to the hospital if you go to a hospital that has been approved by VYV, their assistance company (emergency center such as Mutas for Belgian health insurance funds) (list attached). You have to pay 20% yourself (this list can change, you will probably be notified).
On the list in the appendix you will find the Pattaya International Hospital and SK Medical under Pattaya… .. would be a nursing home.
The Bangkok Pattaya Hospital (and also others in the area) can be found under "Chonburi".
* If you go to a hospital that has not approved VYV, you must pay the full bill yourself and you can claim 50% back afterwards.
– Out-patient is based on pay-and-claim: you pay the bill and send it to CFE (can be done online) who will then refund (in full or in part). There, the coverage depends on the price here compared to the French social security rate (which we do not know). It is important that when you claim, you specify in detail what happened.
More information and an online option to join can be found at: www.cfe.fr
Please note that all correspondence will also be in French.
Submitted by Maurice (BE)
Seems fine.
However, all correspondence in French could be a huge stumbling block.
And that is very unfortunate.
Or, a "friend" should mediate who speaks and writes both Dutch and French.
A kind of mediator.
If there is a collaboration between the insurer and certain Thai hospitals, then the correspondence is done by the hospital itself, right?
A hospital will never start treatment without the agreement of the insurer. I can't imagine that a Thai hospital has French knowledge, they will only negotiate in English anyway.
And we still have Google Translate that can help us further.
Now, I understand that the French language and the Dutch are not a good marriage, among the Belgians it is of course much better.
The 'Caisse des Français à l' étranger' does not work with the hospitals itself. This is done for them by “VYV”, their assistance company. So a dealer. They will communicate with the hospitals in English. By the way, VYV has an English website.
I just looked it up, but apart from a few words of explanation, it doesn't make you any wiser. They don't have to because they only do what 'Cfe' allows them to do. You will also see on the left under the form of logos. If you click on it, you will be redirected to the websites of the various insurance companies for which they handle matters.
https://vyv-ia.com/en/homepage/
You can contact them via email.
Dear , it may indeed be interesting , only everything in the French language makes it a bit more difficult.
We've already had some submissions on this topic for a few weeks. There was also one with health insurance that cost about Euro 800. I would like more information about that.
Thanks, but I can't find the list of hospitals in the attachment.
Kidney
A numéro de sécurité social is required for registration. How did you get that ???
This topic was apparently started after a mailing from the Flemish friends club in Pattaya (by the way, I also received that mail. Not all information from the mail was copied (including the attachments).
Perhaps you should contact Donaat Vernieuwe yourself. I will not mention his email here, but you can find it on their website: https://www.vlaamseclubpattaya.com
I have the impression that this insurance appears to be a lot more interesting than many others in terms of conditions and affordability. I will definitely take a closer look at this.
I sent Donaat an email yesterday and today I received an extensive reply (with a number of attachments with some more information).
If something seems too good to be true, it usually is. What are the catches?
Well, someone who suggests that it could be an interesting insurer. And maybe there are no catches at all.
The monthly premium for people over 60 is EUR 204 per month in Thailand.
They work together with the following hospitals in Thailand:
BANGKOK PAOLO HOSPITAL PHAHOYOTHIN
BANGKOK BANGKOK HOSPITAL
BANGKOK RUTNIN EYE HOSPITAL
BANGKOK BNH HOSPITAL
BANGKOK SIKARIN HOSPITAL
BANGKOK BANGKOK CHRISTIAN HOSPITAL
BANGKOK BANGKOK HOSPITAL HEADQUARTERS
BANGKOK PHYATHAI 2 HOSPITAL
BANGKOK SAMITIVEJ SUKHUMVIT HOSPITAL
BANGKOK SAMITIVEJ SRINAKARIN HOSPITAL
BANGKOK PRARAM 9 HOSPITAL
BANGKOK VIBHAVADHI HOSPITAL
BANGKOK RUTNIN EYE HOSPITAL
BANGKOK NAN AH HOSPITAL
CHIANG MAI BANGKOK HOSPITAL CHIANGMAI
CHIANG MAI CHIANG MAI RAM HOSPITAL
CHIANG RAI BANGKOK HOSPITAL CHIANGRAI
HUA HIN BANGKOK HOSPITAL HUA HIN
KRABI TOWN WATTANAPAT HOSPITAL AONANG
MUANG KHON KAEN BANGKOK HOSPITAL KHON KAEN
PAKCHONG NAKHONG RATCHASIMA BANGKOK HOSPITAL PAKCHONG
PHETCHABURI BANGKOK HOSPITAL PHETCHABURI
PHITSANULOK BANGKOK HOSPITAL PHITSANULOK
NAKHONG RATCHASIMA BANGKOK HOSPITAL RATCHASIMA (KORAT)
AMPHUR MUANG, NAKORN PATHOM BANGKOK HOSPITAL SANAMCHAN
UDON THANI BANGKOK HOSPITAL UDON
UDON THANI NORTH EASTERN WATTANA HOSPITAL
UDON THANI AEK UDON INTERNATIONAL HOSPITAL
CHONBURI BANGKOK HOSPITAL PATTAYA
CHONBURI SAMITIVEJ SRIRACHA HOSPITAL
CHONBURI AIKCHOL HOSPITAL
CHONBURI SAMITIVEJ CHONBURI HOSPITAL
KHON KAEN SRINAGARIND HOSPITAL
KHON KAEN QUEEN SIRIKIT HEART CENTER OF THE NORTHEAST
CHANTHABURI BANGKOK HOSPITAL CHANTABURI
RAYONG BANGKOK HOSPITAL RAYONG
TRAT BANGKOK HOSPITAL TRAT / KOH CHANG CLINIC
PHUKET BANGKOK HOSPITAL PHUKET
PHUKET MEDICAL ANGELS PHUKET
PHUKET BANGKOK HOSPITAL SIRIROJ
PHUKET VACHIRA HOSPITAL
PATTAYA SK MEDICAL SERVICE CO LTD PATTAYA
PATTAYA PATTAYA INTERNATIONAL HOSPITAL
HAT YAI BANGKOK HOSPITAL HATYAI
KOH SAMUI BANGKOK HOSPITAL SAMUI
KOH SAMUI BANDON INTERNATIONAL HOSPITAL
SURAT THANI BANGKOK HOSPITAL SURAT
KOH PHANGAN PHANGAN INTERNATIONAL HOSPITAL
KOH PHI PHI WORLDMED CENTER
UBON RATCHATHANI CHIWAMITRA CANCER HOSPITAL
NONGKHAI NONGKHAI WATTANA HOSPITAL
Via the link provided, I read the following on the website of the “Caisse des Francais á l'Etranger”: CFE has 3 'foreign' options: 1- a supplementary insurance for French expats if they stay outside France for more than 6 months living; 2- a supplement to their foreign insurance for French expats returning to France for a shorter or longer period of time; and 3- a supplementary insurance for French pensioners who have medical expenses abroad.
Both options 1 and 3 are not possible without the French statutory basic insurance, and are intended for French workers/expats abroad. Option 2 is then intended for the group of French pensioners if they incur medical expenses abroad. Please note: a pensioner is by definition not an expat, and vice versa.
That foreign country is divided into 5 zones. Thailand and other Asean countries are in zone 1, and have health coverage of up to 80% by local standards, minus payments by other companies. The premium is roughly 60K baht per year. There IS an age limit: registration from 60 years old to 80 years old, and remain insured until the age of 100 years. After acceptance, an implementation waiting period of 6 months applies, indeed.
CFE previously entered into a partnership with French insurer APRIL and Thai local insurer LMG in July 2020. Together they offer local health insurance, approved by the Thai authority, for the purpose of the OA visa. Here too, registration is limited to the age of 80 and participation to the age of 100.
There is nothing further to read about any possibility for non-French to join option 2 nor about participation for non-French in the APRIL/LMG/CFE program regarding the Visa OA application.
So I asked CFE in my best HBS French via the online forms about the possibility of participating in option 2 as a Dutch pensioner living permanently in Thailand on the basis of Non-O Retirement. I immediately responded with an email confirming that my question has been received and that it will be answered one of these days. Plus a second e-mail confirming my online search at CFE, a telephone number and a cfe-info e-mail address if more information is required. An extensive CFE foreign brochure and an Overview of Reimbursements have been added as appendices.
I will wait for their answer and let you know the result. But I have my doubts because why would a company from/in France be obliged to open its insurance portfolio to non-French people who are not affiliated with the French basic health care systems anyway and who do not have a French BSN? If that obligation is a European requirement, why then does the Netherlands throw all its compatriots who have emigrated abroad from its own health insurance, let alone think for a fraction of a second about non-Dutch people. Or is the Netherlands not secretly the best boy in the class there in Brussels?
I will not use it myself because I follow my own health plan, but also because the half-year waiting period essentially means a disguised premium increase.
Error in the text: in the second paragraph first sentence reference is made to option 3 but option 2 is intended, and in the 2nd sentence the other way around. Same as in paragraph 6: possibility to participate in option 2 is participation in option 3.
Hello, who is negative? My response contains an account of data as can be read on the CFE website. Nothing more nothing less. Perhaps better reading. Those dates already fill half of my text. This is followed by a reflection and a critical note from me plus the announcement that I have requested and received information. Anyone who wants to benefit from my response can go ahead. I can skip you.
Moderator; Note Bart removed.
Dear Maurice,
The problem is the following.
First of all, no bilateral agreement between BE and TH.
Secondly, most Belgians have been living here for many years and have always not wanted to sign up for insurance at a younger age (still affordable at the time).
Like the train of thought,, nothing happens to me,,
With this French insurance they now think they have found the solution.
About 2500€/year.
Let's assume a serious withdrawal of 2 million baht. You still pay 400.000 baht out of your own pocket.
Obviously no problem for all wealthy Belgians who wanted to save years on insurance premiums.
Greetings, Gino.
Where do you get the idea that most Belgians who live here have not subscribed to health insurance? Sheer nonsense is being sold here.
Nobody forces you to use that French insurance. If you don't find it interesting, ignore this topic. The topic starter has good intentions to share this with us, thanks for that!
In my case, 60+, single, the quote is 218 Euro/month. If you still take into account 20% to pay yourself for in-patient. I don't think it's that cheap...
josh,
You have to think beyond your nose... 😉
– Are other insurers still cheap when you are 70+? NO! On the contrary, they throw you out.
– Are other insurers still cheap when you file a claim? NO, with every claim your premium goes up significantly.
– Are you covered for everything with other insurers? NO, all pre-existing conditions are excluded. Some even require a preliminary medical examination, as soon as they suspect something you will be excluded for that particular condition anyway. An extensive questionnaire will also be submitted to map out your medical history. If something isn't right there too, they don't want you as a customer anymore.
If I take everything into account, the 218 euros / month is absolutely not expensive.
Maybe you can make a REAL comparison between YOUR insurer (with all the pros and cons) and that of this topic. Only then can we speak of cheap or expensive. Anyone can come here and say that an insurer is expensive without argument.
I started this topic after receiving an email, originally from an employee of the Bangkok Hospital in Pattaya.
Their policy offers a number of benefits that other insurers do not offer. That's why I thought it would be interesting to spread this further through this blog.
It is unfortunate to hear that some members immediately jump on the bandwagon to put this newcomer in a bad light without argument, let alone a proper investigation.
Some competitive premiums may seem cheaper at first glance, but appearances can be deceiving. I once compared my existing policy and came to the conclusion that CFE is definitely competitive.
Everyone has to decide for themselves what suits them best. Take advantage of the information provided. And if you have comments, provide the necessary arguments with your comments. Because every chicken can cluck 🙂
I have not yet delved into it, but I myself have many exclusions with all insurance companies.
A few years ago I was insured with Assudis even for the exclusions, after 3 years this was no longer profitable for society and they set different conditions and these no longer apply to people who had emigrated or expats.
I took the risk of saving and hoping it turns out well.
Had made an application a few days ago, in response to the proposal. Dutch nationality. This is the correct answer. Jan
Sir,
Nous avons bien reçu votre demande du 19/03/2023 et vous remercions de votre confiance.La CFE est une caisse pour les Français résidants à l'étranger.
Now that you are national, you sometimes regret not having a favorable suite
votre demande d'affiliation.
Restant à votre disposition nous vous prions d'agréer, Monsieur, nos salutations distinguées.
Par Delegation du Director,
Sylvie Saint Rose
Dear sir,
We have received your request dated 19/03/2023 and thank you for your trust. The CFE is a greenhouse for French people living abroad.
Due to your nationality, we unfortunately cannot accept your request for connection.
We remain at your disposal and greet you with best regards.
On behalf of the director,
Sylvie Saint Rose
I just wrote to them. In French of course. Let's see what comes out of the bus…
Hello
i looked in the brochure “guide d'adhesion”, accession law
RETREAT EXPAT SANTE
entry conditions;
Être français et résider à l'étranger.
Être ressortissant d'un pays appartenant à l'Espace Économique Européen (EEE) ou de la Suisse et être expatrié en dehors de ces pays.
Autres étrangers, hors de leur propre pays et salariés d'une entreprise ayant affilié son personnel à la CFE.
Ayant droit minor jusqu'à 20 ans.
For me the second line means; resident of a country...
Would also like to know what it means.
mvg
google translate says:
Be a national of a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EU) or Switzerland and have been expatriated outside these countries.
So in simple words:
You must have the nationality of an EU citizen (or Switzerland) and be resident outside the EU.
SO: Belgians or Dutch people can perfectly take out insurance with them.
In the meantime I know of 2 Belgians who concluded a contract with them a few weeks ago without any problems.
All insurers collect premiums without any problems, but if you make a claim, it unfortunately goes a little less smoothly (sic) with some.
I have a French friend who has a contract with CFE and has practical experience in submitting 3 claims in the meantime. Like me, he lives part of the year in northern Thailand and returns to France at least once a year, mainly for family reasons.
I asked about his (practical) experience with CFE. It was generally good.
Minuses, according to him, are the delay in payment after acceptance of the claim. In recent years, this would have increased to 5 to 6 months. There has been some improvement recently, but payments are not going smoothly.
In his experience, the “third-party payer arrangement” remains a dead letter in case of urgent hospitalization. VYV's intermediary correspondent has no decision-making authority, not even with regard to the validation of a third-party payer request. The decision on this lies exclusively with CFE and can take a long time, up to days, to be made. In practice, therefore, pre-financing by the patient is always an issue.
My French friend did not know whether non-French people could join CFE. He still considers CFE to be a good choice for price-quality, provided that you can accept the mentioned drawbacks.
Correct source: Written by a flesh and blood human being based on the practical experience of his friend who is not a machine 🙂
In the past few days I received the following emails:
dd 20 but yl -quote-
Please contact us for more information regarding your couverture. You will also receive an individual proposition for tarification, based on the documents related to the attachment for the cover “MondExpat santé”. Latest trimestrielle sera de : €654 'à partir du 1st April 2023.
In other words: registration with CFE to participate in the MondExpatSanté policy is possible at a premium of €654 per 3 months as of April 1,
Because Jan reported on March 21 at 10:01 AM that non-French people cannot use CFE, I asked again. The answer was dated March 23:
“Effectivement, le fait d'avoir la nationalité française ou européenne fait parti des conditions d'éligibilité en cas d'adhésion”.
Which means that European nationals can access CFE policies.
The emails received were signed by employees of the Cellule Prospect, Direction Marketing, Development and Communication department Tél: 0164146262; mail: [email protected]