You experience everything in Thailand (46)
We had Johnny BG's story from yesterday in our house for a while and it intrigued us what he meant by that experience, which he could only write about in his diary. After a bit of questioning, Johnny decided to open his diary to share that experience with us and what consequences it had for the rest of his life.
A warning in advance: it's a rather intense story about, yes, barmaids. Barmaids, or whatever you want to call them, are rarely mentioned in the stories of this series, but they are indeed part of Thai society.
In this story, Johnny will tell honestly and frankly what happened and we can only admire and respect that.
This is the story of Johnny BG
The evening after the takraw tournament did not end with a dinner and a drink by the river, but the men continued for a while. The two Thai's wives were sent home and the three of us went on a pub crawl, because I also had to get to know the dark side of Chanthaburi, right? The bars we visited were not the best kind and more dirty than allowed in Patpong. Finally we came to a place that looked like a farm.
Sex farm
As if you entered a stable, 10 young girls sat at a table and each of us got to choose one. When drinking the beer, it was also said how much the “pleasure” should cost. Believe it or not, it was 75 baht and that surprised me so much that I decided to give my two fellow visitors a fun round right away. I don't know the price of say Sang Som with coke in a bar at the time, but I thought something like 85 baht per glass. The price for the lady was therefore lower and then you can sometimes propose something in your spontaneity fueled by alcohol, especially if you don't (can't) know the background.
You cannot expect a foreigner to just enter a sex farm if there is illegal activity. Of course I asked why it was so cheap and my company only grinned about that and that I had better not ask. It turned out afterwards that the ladies who worked in that closed facility were most likely victims of trafficking in women (hence the 75 baht) and came from Burma or Cambodia.
In the end, the girl I chose didn't work out. Payment had to be made in advance and when she arrived at the room she turned out not to be able or willing to speak Thai or English and it also came down to the fact that she didn't feel like it and refused. Then I wanted my money back and she refused and told the others that I was already done. I know it was about 75 baht, but there are sometimes principles when it comes to blatant lying and then I can get very angry. I probably went on a bit of a rampage, to the point that the occasional friends thought it was a better idea to leave the place, because you never know with those armed guards.
Everything can be fun on such a night, but you can also destroy people and if I had known then, I think and know that I would not have gone in and certainly would not have given a round.
Bangkok
At that time I had also met a lady – let me call her Lek – in Bangkok. I wasn't actually looking for a partner, but it was nice to hang out together. Due to a difference in mentality and misunderstanding, we sometimes got into trouble and then I went back into the country alone to come to my senses
After such a trip I would return and then we would see each other again. Little by little we got to know each other and the quarrels became less and less. Meanwhile, the past was being talked about and Lek was not keen to talk about it. The moment she started to trust me, I was told the story of her past piece by piece.
Her father was stabbed to death at a wedding and her mother was on her own with 3 children. For her mother, any man who wanted to help her was good enough. So Lek got a stepfather, who eventually sexually abused her. Her mother didn't believe that or didn't think her stepfather's behavior was a problem. Lek was even physically punished by her mother when she complained about the abuse. The punishment was that she had to climb a tree with a nest of red ants and everyone can or may imagine what a vicious method of torture that is and that by your own mother ...
Then she ran away at the age of 12 and tried to survive on the street and was trapped twice with a street friend and ended up in the trafficking of women in Petchaburi and Sungai Galok. Then she had not even reached the age of 15 and during a liberation action by the police, the "owner" shot her friend in front of her eyes.
Of course you can make up all these things to, I don't know, make an impression, but sometimes a story can also be real. In the end we went to the family where she really didn't want to go and hadn't been for years and I could see with my own eyes that unhealthy things had happened. The stepfather who made me want to wring his neck, who expressed pure regret to his stepdaughter and a mother who apologized that there was no other way….
The history of Lek has taught me that you cannot judge people so easily. You don't know the background, but since then respect for everyone has been my priority. Whether someone is a barmaid, gay, fat, thin, transvestite or whatever, it is what it is and everyone has their own story. Somehow I don't worry at all when it comes to people's finances, because then everyone can make their own ends meet, but perhaps this insight can change as I get older.
The Netherlands
After eight months my money ran out and I had to return to the Netherlands. Three months later, Lek came to the Netherlands, for whom I had creatively arranged a visa. We ended up living together in the Netherlands for 17 years. We had built our existence from nothing to something together. Lek was happy in the Netherlands, but my idea was to live in Thailand one day. Lek did not agree, she wanted to stay in the Netherlands.
Since I no longer wanted to spend another 25 years of my working life in the same Dutch merry-go-round, we decided to split up. It felt like you were able to give someone a place in Dutch society and that the time was right to develop myself further in an environment without a greedy government. Deciding for yourself who you want to sponsor suits me better than trying to control an unsustainable system. Such decisions can be painful, but luckily there was mutual understanding and she was able to stay in the house. She has also had a suitable partner for almost 8 years now and in that respect one less worry for me.
Back to Thailand
Eventually I got in the position to generate income independently and left for Pattaya with a sports bag and my laptop. After a few months I came into contact with the right people from Bangkok for me and I was offered to work as an assistant manager and after that it went as I had envisioned. Apparently it had to happen in Thailand after all.
In the context of an even better integration, as is my nature, I also had to immerse myself in the rough life of Bangkok. Coincidence or not, but I found Thai step friends from the socially lower environment and learned a lot from being allowed to stay in the most bad karaoke bars. The daily short nights of sleep and the attack on my liver and kidneys were well worth it. The future will of course tell, but quality of life is more important than quantity in my opinion.
Fun is fun, but sometimes with a certain age it is better to slow down a bit to function somewhat normally and I ended up in calmer waters with wife, stepchild and dog.
Not everything was and is a bed of roses, but having rock solid confidence in yourself and the people around you and especially being flexible as bamboo can make life in Thailand quite fun if you are open to risks in life, even if you only have an MBO -course.
What a story. It wouldn't be my life but that aside. There are many like Johnny who have different values and standards than I received. It said so. What I really dislike is the fact that if you know that a group of people are being exploited, you look the other way and for reasons other than from a human perspective you do not have sex with one of those ladies and you get busy make for alms. It would also have been to Johnny's credit if he had reported his knowledge to the authorities afterwards. Failure to do so only leads to guesswork. This group of victims deserves to be released from the clutches of criminals who don't give a damn about their well-being. Modern human trafficking and exploitation is punishable by law, I can also share you in Thailand. If the local authority is not trusted, the interpol agency can always be called upon, which can do a lot of good work as a coordinator in this type of matter. Doing nothing and looking away is very reprehensible, but taking advantage of victims for their own pleasure is sickening. I know this is not only a Thailand thing, but it is happening all over the world and also in the Netherlands. Alcohol is no excuse. A missed opportunity to make a positive contribution to a better society. Been busy or you say it, this is my opinion.
I don't think you quite get it.
Did you know at the age of 25 what you know now?
It is more important to me that I have been able to help someone to have a better life. Read the story again I would say.
You have experienced suffering at work and that is slightly different from experiencing suffering as a partner. So institutional policing really does exist.
Johnny, you write that it is more important to you that you have been able to help someone to have a better life. More important (magnifying degree of important) than anything, I wonder. But that aside, I find it striking that many of my colleagues and acquaintances with a Thai partner, whether or not living together in the Netherlands, think and emphasize, just like you, that they have given the other a better life by entering into the relationship. Quite apart from what is meant by “a better life”, there seems to be a disinterestedness being expressed that in my opinion is not applicable. It seems strong to me that you brought your girlfriend 'Lek' to the Netherlands for this reason. In the first instance, the motive must have been to benefit from it yourself by enjoying each other's presence or in any other form. I myself have been living in the Netherlands for 20 years now with my (younger) partner from Thailand. As in any relationship, with us it is a matter of give and take. Some family members and friends sometimes think they should remark, whether well-intentioned or not, that my partner should be “thankful” to me. I can't stand that and when I answer that it's the other way around, because my partner left everything and everyone in Thailand for me and actually gave me the best years of life, I usually get surprised looks. The way you look back on your visit to the farm in Chantaburi, on the other hand, surprises me. I can imagine that you let yourself be dragged there, especially after consuming the necessary alcohol and without realizing what you would find there. But after all these years you could have distanced yourself more forcefully than you do now by saying that you think and do not know that you went in and did not give a round. You also write that you probably went on a rampage there because it was against your principle that the girl you selected did not want to serve you after paying 75 baht. I think you could have left out “probably” because if your Thai friends at the time decided to turn their backs on the opportunity, you must have made it pretty bad. It's good that you're now in calmer waters, according to your own words. I can't place your reference to your MBO education, but that doesn't matter either. By the way, don't think I want to lecture you. I already have my hands full, so to speak, to keep myself focused. Best wishes.
Yes, Jacques, it's a bad world, but fortunately there are still people like you who try to “make a positive contribution to a better society” (your words). Anyway, a few facts:
Johnny ends up in a sex farm at a young age. He says: “If I had known then what I know now, it never would have happened.
He should have reported it to the authorities, you say. Which authorities? The police? Trust me, the police were indeed aware of that tent. It is precisely that group that “does nothing and looks away”, because they themselves earn money with it.
Later he takes a Thai woman, who suffered greatly in her youth and ended up in human trafficking, to the Netherlands. He thereby saves at least one person from the misery of her past. Is that nice or not?
Jacques, I know you from many reactions as a moral knight, but what you write now is purely theoretical chatter and does not do justice to Johnny. By the way, Johnny himself will not lose sleep over your reaction, he says: "I lived and I don't regret anything".
What are your concrete contributions to creating a better Thai society?
Sometimes being honest is hard.
Never done anything wrong is a utopia but yes some believe in it.
Learn from your weaknesses and you will grow. JBG 01
Thanks Gringo and the story is multi-story that's right and the fact that Johnny is helping that other woman out of her slump in his own way, assuming this was his motive, is certainly commendable. I don't understand why he left her like this in the Netherlands. I dare to doubt that I would just end up in such a ball tent. I too had been through quite a bit at the age of 25, but this would not have happened to me. There are people who still make the same mistakes at 60 and learn nothing from it. Johnny doesn't regret anything and it doesn't do him any credit. You just have to stay away from those kinds of tents and if you're too weak for that, you can just get into trouble. It is not human-friendly and you are very naive if you do not know that with 25 years. Then you haven't been a little child for several years. You can do life in many ways. You can go looking for problems, deal with drugs and violence, you name it. I am not a person who covers everything with the cloak of love, so give my opinion solicited and unsolicited. I also have no sympathy for people with such an attitude to life. Sure moral knight could be my middle name. Not something to be ashamed of, more of an honorary title. So thank you for pointing this out again. My wife was also abused in the past by her mother and her ex-husband. I can also write a book about that. I'll spare you. I have been with her for more than 20 years out of love and for her, because she wanted to go to Thailand again at an older age, I am here now.
A noble act or so to speak. It has never been my intention to stay in Thailand continuously, but I do this. A country that is nice for a holiday, but there is so much that is unacceptable, enough has already been written about it on this blog and in the news. But I don't flaunt my choices, life sometimes takes strange turns, that happens to all of us. I know from various police investigations that these types of establishments have been successfully closed down in collaboration between the Interpol Bureau and local police, so it is possible. But I partly understand why Johnny did not report this to the police, because something had already happened and in a drunken state as a foreigner, that is certainly not appreciated by the police here. You are also not appreciated for committing criminal acts, such as engaging in (forced) prostitution. To address your last comment I could pass the ball back, but what's the point. I come to Thailand for my wife and my peace and I refrain from becoming part of what I see as a degenerate society. I contribute, four times a year, to donate what I need from my pension to charities and the less fortunate in this country. With my wife and a group of market people we visit aid organizations in the country. That's called involvement. I have made my contributions to quality of life and safety in my 40 years with the police in the Netherlands and many others cannot say that. I thought about being a police officer in Thailand for a while, but wisely rejected it. I don't have the “right” mentality on a number of points. By the way, I am not without mistakes, but I have learned from them. Nothing human is foreign to me. But there is sometimes room for a different voice on this blog and that pleases me and resistance provides a better discussion than just joining in.
Dear Jacques, most of us, perhaps all, who are kind to Thailand have known many years of life devoted to quality of life and safety in the Netherlands. For example, I have worked for more than 40 years in various branches of care: social work, mental health crisis service, addiction rehabilitation, care clinical management. A lot of others can't say that, but they can say that they have other greater merits. You don't understand how offensive you are in some of your comments. You are now in Thailand for your wife and your rest, you write. Keep it at that. To say that you feel a sense of belonging to what you call “a degenerate society” does not sound right. It is fine that you support a few charities, but do not derive any justification from this to judge others and/or the country where you thought you were seeking refuge. Wasn't for nothing either. The fact that you can't go back may make you grumpy, but it's entirely up to you.
I'm not grumpy but I've met a lot of the wrong people in my old profession and that sometimes breaks up, I'm the last who will deny this. My involvement with my fellow man has always been great and that is now partly different because I am no longer working and have let go of a lot. There are pros and cons to retirement. Apart from the fact that I support charities, I also have a major social role in taking care of my wife's family. I'm certainly not alone in that here in Thailand I know but there are plenty who would never do such a thing. Thailand is a country that has a lot to offer and I can certainly enjoy it and I do that on a regular basis. But I also see where things are not going well and I denounce that when the moments arise. Unfortunately I am one of the few on this blog who makes a negative sound about the abuses that take place here in the field of bars and everything that is closely related to it. Then you are rather quickly labeled as a vinegar whiner or a person you better not associate with, because you are not sociable and you do not participate well with the crowd. I'm okay with that, but it doesn't make any sense. People don't know me. I have not yet heard a single valid argument that shows me to look at the negative things differently and I am really open to my fellow man. Apparently people prefer to see the followers and yes marbles on the negative behavior of many. I'll pass for this, I've been around too long for that. You have a decent CV that I respect and that says something about your social commitment.
I speak of a degraded society because this is still widely visible, the wars and the negative way in which people interact with each other and which has a very negative effect on our actions. Everyone is affected by it to a greater or lesser extent. In my view, exposing this is necessary because many on this earth are not doing well. That I should therefore keep my mouth shut and refrain from commenting is going much too far. I chose a life with my wife because I love her and I like being with her. The fact that I don't see my children and grandchildren and further family and friends in the Netherlands as a result is inherent to this and I am less happy about that. Is that something abnormal. Like Jonnhy, I could also pack my bags and go back to the Netherlands, but then I wouldn't be happy either. I am a man of my word and I stick to my agreements even if it doesn't always feel good. It said so.
Jacques, you think it is necessary to judge someone else, in this case JohnnyBG, so we can do the same about you. All your reactions so far are predictable and full of clichés. Always a moralistic pointer about booze and bargirls. You say you worked for the police, but it could also have been a minister or a schoolmaster. You are not the first person I would invite to a party because you seem a bit sour and gloomy to me. Actually deadly boring, a painting on the wall is even cozier. That's allowed because it's your life, do what you want with it. But taking the measure of others, you better stop doing that. And because you love clichés so much, write this one down in your booklet: Live and let live!
Peter you can of course only really judge when you have met someone in real life. So online in writing, nuances are lost. Johnny honestly tells his story here, which in retrospect shows that it was not exactly a pleasant establishment.. (understatement). Viewed positively, this can serve as a warning to others, a concrete example can help others to recognize such a situation sooner. Ideal scenario would of course be if these modern day slaves and human trafficking victims are rescued and helped. The example also shows that not everyone goes to the police in this way. Is there a lesson to be learned from this, can it be made more accessible to report? Maybe anonymous?
The way Jacques packs his message may come across as sour finger waving to someone else. You can then get annoyed about the way the message is packaged or see what the writer's intention is (fighting human trafficking and exploitation). Jacques' intention therefore seems to me to be of good will, so personally I don't allow myself to be frustrated by some finger waving. Tjai jen jen the Thai would say.
There are all kinds of writings here that sometimes make me think 'sigh' or 'man man', but I dare not say whether the authors are actually pleasant or unpleasant people. In any case, thank you for the diversity of what comes across here on this blog. So I welcome both Johnny and Jacques' contributions. What are these or other gentlemen (or ladies) like in real life? No idea... Maybe organize a Thailand party after all this Corona misery is behind us. Can the writers, readers and commenters assess each other better as to who they are? 🙂
Your opinion is also known and predictable, Peter, and it's nice of you to get involved again. Of course you have every right to that. But you don't know me enough and I am pragmatic and realistic in my doings and certainly not in favor of the nightlife if this means going to the bars and consuming a lot of alcohol and diving into a hotel bed with a lady. I have chosen my wife and will never harm her with e.g. momentary happiness. I can say that I have done quite well and that is completely independent of the criticisms I express. Getting everything out of life is a utopia. My health is worth a lot to me, so I'm busy with other things. I have friends and acquaintances who also enjoy the bars every now and then, but even more that you won't find there. I'm not stopping anyone, but I will advise them against it and there are good reasons for that as I have often indicated. That you will find the nice people at those bars, that will not be true. I have experienced this differently. Fortunately, I am still healthy in body and limbs and I do a lot of sports. My friends and acquaintances know me and can take my criticism and I handle things as I see fit. Live and let live, just like hear see and speak no evil, is all wonderful and well, but certainly not always the best advisor and not everyone can bear that luxury. Another difference of vision of the world, shall we say.
Another nice list of clichés Jacques, tribute! I'm not imitating you.
It comes from the heart and it's a shame you don't see this. But I do respect your opinion and sometimes I agree with you, but don't tell anyone about this of course.
No regrets whatsoever for what happened. Tribute to the girl who refuses to help Johny with his comfort for 75 bath.
Ok you are young and then you do things that are not possible, but at an older age you should still be sensible, even if you have MBO level.
Then show off that you saved Lek, you were in a relationship before you heard her story.
Jacques has read the story well. Kudos for his response.
It's just nice of you to write an honest story, Johnny. In fact, I think it's very brave. I couldn't.
A way of life that I would absolutely not dare to. I would have dared to participate in that takraw tournament, but to go out with 2 men you only just met would go too far for me. And I would absolutely not dare to immerse myself in the rough nightlife in Bangkok. Yes, I did go “out” in Khonkaen, but then together with my ex-girlfriend. Hats off to your entrepreneurial spirit.
Appreciation, Johnny, for sharing your story. Maybe I don't like it, maybe I recognize something in it, but I'm sure I'm not judging.
I am sure that from today I will read your reactions, sometimes of the 'very simplistic' type, with different eyes and certainly in a better light.
Thanks for that!