A week in Bangkok (part 2)
(Photo: Thailandblog)
Fortunately, Charly's life is full of pleasant surprises (unfortunately sometimes also less pleasant ones). For several years now he has lived with his Thai wife Teoy in a resort not far from Udonthani. In his stories, Charly mainly tries to raise awareness of Udon, but he also discusses many other things in Thailand.
A week in Bangkok – part 2
After yesterday's flight from Udon to Bangkok, today we have a trip to the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs, more specifically the Department of Consular Affairs, on the program. The address: 123 Chaeng Watthana Road.
Now you would think, that's a piece of cake, no problem. Unfortunately it's not that simple. To begin with, this street is not directly in the center of Bangkok but quite a bit outside it. You can count on, excluding traffic jams, about 45 minutes by taxi. Moreover, Chaeng Watthana Road is a very long street with a lot of traffic, 2 lanes out and 2 lanes back. Just unbelievable, so busy, in the middle of the day. I also immediately remember why Bangkok is not one of my favorite cities.
Our taxi driver drops us off at the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs, after about 45 minutes of driving and against payment of 200 baht plus tip. We enter the immense building, now still cheerful and cheerful. We should be on the third floor. We are looking for an escalator or elevator that can take us one floor higher. Just about walked the entire floor but nowhere a possibility to go up. Found an escalator but it seems to be out of order.
The elevator part is really very well hidden. After addressing a passing soldier, he manages to take us to the elevators. Arriving on the third floor, no one can tell us where the Department of Consular Affairs would be. That is Thai. Everyone is very helpful and directs us to some office on this floor. No one says they don't know. Imagine the loss of face that would be. Not knowing something.
So again sent from pillar to post here. Finally, we are directed back to the second floor, which is the level you enter the building. An immigration office is located on the second floor. So there you go, although it clearly isn't a Department of Consular Affairs. That turns out to be the case. A not too nice employee explains this loudly to Teoy. But Teoy keeps insisting to at least explain to her where she needs to be. It takes a while, but after many questions and explanations, the penny falls with the militant employee, and sure enough, she now finally understands what we are looking for. We must have a building about a kilometer back on Chaeng Watthana Road.
I now feel like I've run a half marathon and I'm starting to get sick of it. I decide to sit outside and take a breather and Teoy takes a motorcycle taxi to the indicated building. After more than half an hour Teoy is back. The designated building, building A, actually turns out to be the right building, with the Department of Consular Affairs on the third floor. Teoy has handed over the paper that needs to be legalized. Unfortunately, this cannot be done on the same day. The legalized paper will be ready in two days.
What does the relevant document contain? Simple, a statement that Teoy is unmarried. That document was issued by the provincial house in Udon, in the presence of two witnesses. This document must then be legalized by the Thai Department of Consular Affairs and we will need that legalized document when we visit the Dutch embassy tomorrow. So that will be a bit of a sweat tomorrow, because I do have a copy of that form with me, but not yet legalized. Cost of legalization of this one document: 600 baht.
Take a taxi back to the hotel. Finding a taxi in Bangkok is generally not a problem at all – except when it is raining and during rush hour – but the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has an incredibly long queue of taxis waiting for you. I estimate about 200. And they are all neatly lined up. You have no choice, you have to take the first taxi in line. The return journey is also hassle-free, again at a fare of 200 baht plus tip.
Back at the hotel we would like to have lunch in the restaurant on the fourth floor. Unfortunately that is not possible. The restaurant appears to be fully rented out by a company. And Arthur doesn't open until 18.00pm. I don't see the point of eating somewhere outside the hotel. I've walked enough today. So we used room service and ate in the room.
Then Teoy goes to the fitness room and has fun there. I go to sleep for a few hours to recover from the many running gear and the amount of stress acquired. Then a nice shower and then sought comfort in the Arthur restaurant, with a great bottle of wine and a delicious dinner. I can relax there and enjoy myself again. 6.000 baht poorer but fully satisfied, we pull the plug for this day and surrender to dreamland.
The next day at 09.00:09.00 we have an appointment with the consular department of the Dutch embassy. For a late sleeper like me, a 200am appointment is self-torture. But this time I manage very well to get up on time. We take a taxi for those 300-XNUMX meters anyway, to save energy for the rest of the day.
I have a lot of documents with me, all of which have already been translated into Udon. We will be at the embassy at 8.40:XNUMX am.
Just for the readers who haven't been there before, a sketch of the course of events. In front of the entrance is a guard with a second guard behind him in a booth. You hand over your passport and the letter confirming the appointment. If approved, you will receive a “visitor” badge and you may continue to an open area, where you will have to wait on a concrete bench for the next step.
In the building itself there is a kind of reception with a Thai employee who has to regulate the flow of visitors. A maximum of three visitors are allowed at the same time in the reception. From the reception you will be taken by the Thai employee to a room where there are four intake counters in the form of fully enclosed cabins. As soon as someone is channeled to the intake counters, the Thai employee will again call someone from the outside world into the reception. There is also a maximum of three people in the waiting area in front of the intake counters at the same time.
The persons in the intake cabins are Thai employees who speak decent English. Here you provide the required documents. What is required depends on what you need from the embassy. If all documents are in order, the embassy issues the required forms, often immediately, sometimes only in the afternoon of the same day. This depends on how busy the embassy is.
About that pressure the following. On the day we are there, we leave there around 10.00:08.30 am and there is no one left in the waiting area. Normally, the consular section is open from 11.00:08.30 to 11.00:XNUMX. What I don't understand is why you have to make an appointment so far in advance. Enough space in the agenda as you can see. Moreover, an opening time of XNUMX to XNUMX is very short. Could easily, and if necessary, be much more spacious. This is my one day experience, it may be much busier on other days.
Back to our state of affairs within the embassy. It's our turn pretty soon and, after a stopover in the "reception", we can enter cabin 2 to hand over all documents for checking. A lovely employee receives our papers and goes through them all with a serious look. After a while, we are still waiting at her counter, she comes with a paper that has not been filled in correctly.
Unfortunately I missed Teoy's family name with an "h". Now you would say, write the correct name above it and sign it. But no, that's too simplistic. The entire document must be completed again. Back to the waiting area in front of the intake desks and Teoy fills in the form again. Then back to counter 2. The lack of a legalized unmarried statement from Teoy is not conjured up as a spoilsport. Apparently that's not a problem. The employee may assume that the document has been sufficiently legalized by the stamp of the provincial house in Udon.
We then receive a form, in Dutch and English, stating that the Dutch embassy has no objection to a marriage between Teoy and me. However, after payment of the fee of 3.020 baht. Of course you do.
Documents submitted by us for the approval of an intended marriage (see also the Netherlandsworldwide website, which also lists everything neatly and completely):
- Completed marriage proposal application form;
- International extract from the municipality in the Netherlands stating marital status (not older than 1 year). An international extract contains all your personal data such as name, home address and marital status;
- A personal written statement in which you state that you are no longer married in the period after the date of issue of the international extract;
- A witness and income form. Thai law requires two non-Thai witnesses. These witnesses do not have to be present at the wedding. I brought a copy of the passport from the two witnesses and the annual statements for 2019 from my income. I don't know if that is really necessary, but I took it with me just to be on the safe side.
- Valid Dutch passport;
- Translated and legalized unmarried declaration of future partner;
- Copy of partner's passport or identity card;
- Official document with partner's address details.
Windfall at the Dutch embassy. An incorrectly completed form is easily collected and you can replace it on the spot with a correctly completed form, and the declaration of unmarried status that has not been legalized by the Department of Consular Affairs is not a showstopper. No problems and a flexible attitude and all this in roughly two hours.
I'm curious about what's going on at the Department of Consular Affairs tomorrow.
Well Charly, that is something I will never get used to, that a Thai is so afraid of losing face and then just sends you somewhere, in my opinion they suffer an even greater loss of face if they (willfully) give you wrong information to give.
Then I think gee, how stupid they are to misinform me instead of saying sorry sir, but I don't know.
And I don't want to get used to this way of thinking of the Thai either.
I have lived in Thailand for almost 20 years. I have asked for directions countless times and have never been sent the wrong way. Never. Always good help. If they didn't know, they called a family member or friend. Then they often drew the road for me to follow.
That's how you do that:
Good morning, hot huh. Oops, that pad thai smells good. Sorry to bother you. We are a bit lost, very annoying. Can you help us? We are looking for Wat Khuay Yai. You don't know either? Thank you for calling your brother………….
Look, at the school on the left, after 3 km on the right and then another 5 km.
Thank you.
I had an acquaintance who barked through an open car window 'Wat Khauy Yai!' And then everyone points in a different direction. I would do that too.
And sometimes they said 'It's close to here but hard to find. I'll bring you, follow me'.
Dear Tino, I have great respect for your oral and written knowledge of the Thai language. Unfortunately, I was not given that, although it can sometimes have its advantages not being able to understand everything that is being said in Thai. I have crossed Thailand by (rental) car for many years from East to West and South to North. In the past there was of course no navigation via Garmin, TomTom or Google maps and I had to rely on maps. So adventurous but sometimes I didn't get out. Now I was usually accompanied by my Thai partner, with or without other members of my Thai in-laws. When I couldn't find the route to a point of interest on the map, it seemed simple to ask my partner for directions. He was usually not keen on this, and certainly not in the north of Thailand, where many dialects are spoken and communication was sometimes extremely difficult. My experience is therefore that speaking the Thai language fluently does not guarantee that you will be pointed in the right direction and I have regularly been thrown into a rut. I experienced a 'funny' incident in Laos. We drove from Thailand to Champasak by car where we had reserved a room in the Champasak Palace hotel. As we approached the city we came to a T-junction and we didn't know whether to turn left or right. Now there were about 10 police officers at the intersection, almost all of them young people around twenty years old, so I asked in English the way to the Palace hotel. They spoke almost no English but managed to make it clear to us that we had to follow the road to the right. We followed it for 15 km, a beautiful route too, but no Palace hotel to be seen and so we decided to go back. We finally came back to the T-junction and after driving straight ahead for about a kilometer we saw the imposing Palace hotel on the right side of the road. So we were sent exactly the wrong way. The receptionist did have an explanation for it. We should not have pronounced Palace in English but in French, so Palais. We could laugh about it. Those policemen in Laos had not wanted to 'disappoint' us and just pointed to one side. In that respect, contrary to your experiences, so for me actually the same as in Thailand. Of course I have also been shown the right way many times.
I have lived in Thailand for more than 10 years and I feel that Mr. is exaggerating. I really don't recognize his stories at all, even though they are fun to read. Again, written, reads fine, but I would take a few things with a grain, or large grain, of salt.
I disagree with your comments. I know “sir” personally, and I can assure you that there is no exaggeration here in any way! Have you ever written a readable story yourself?
Hello Rob. “Not getting used to Thai” is an open door. If you stay in Thailand I would say adjust as far as possible if you like Thailand. With the necessary experience of adapting and accepting a little, I have experienced a world of difference. Try to see it differently, in my opinion, the average Thai are not stupid. Maybe a culture difference.
Hmm recognizable problem.
Tips for those who need to be there again someday.
1. Assume 4 days.
2. Book a hotel close by. There are plenty from IT square Laksi (corner vivaphdi rangist road (express way).
Oh we always stay at the NARRA hotel when we need to be there.
3. To get through the day when we have to wait. IT square. In addition to electronica clothing, and especially in the basement food stalls.
There is also a Foodland on the north side of the building.
4. You can also easily take the bus, taxi, etc. to rangsit and to Future park.
5. A little back towards Don Mueang you have a very similar to IT square.
Opposite to a Big C.
I myself lived in Srigun for 2 years just opposite Thung song hong train station (west side).
There is a lot more around the IT square especially towards the east the Rajabhat university.
Somewhere opposite is one of the best fish restaurants in the area
There is a Central department store on Cheng Wattana Road, and as it should be with many restaurants and coffee shops, sitting areas and other fun. You can easily pass the time if you have to wait and you don't have to go to the far-away Futurepark/Zeers, which is 20 km away.
For translation work and legalizations you can also contact the various translation agencies in this area, send it by post (and preferably by Kerry because then it will be the day after) and they will arrange this for you and if necessary you can pick it up at the office there and you save yourself the search for the right department and building, recommended if you like convenience and fine for incidental matters such as that of the writer.
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"May I have the honor of being the first to congratulate you on your future marriage"
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Nim & Pieter Smit Udon Thani
@Peter
Thank you Peter. Hope to see you and Nim again soon in Udon.
Also from our side, congratulations on your intended marriage! Arisa and Henk Bakker!
@Hank
Thank you very much for your congratulations. I hope we will meet again soon.
Also from our side, congratulations on your intended marriage!
Hidden between the lines but I've seen it! Congratulations to both of you on your proposed marriage. All those concerns are just part of it; stamps are a necessary evil.
@Eric
Thanks for your congratulations.
Nicely written, as always. Perhaps a tip for next time: diagonally opposite the Dutch embassy there is a small desk that gladly does all the translations and can also take care of the passage to the Thai ministry. For a small fee, of course. If you want even same day service, but that is more expensive. If I compare that to the torture of 2 x taxi trips, and the 500 bath cost taxi, the desk is easier and cheaper….
@Jasper
You are absolutely right. If I had known this in advance, I would have loved to use the mediation of such an office. Fortunately, you learn by doing. But I assume that it will remain with this marriage and that a next time will not be necessary. I can't imagine situations where such a complicated process is needed again. At most renewing my passport, but that won't be that difficult anyway.
Dear Charly, your story about the visit to the Department of Consular Affairs brought back a number of memories for me. Years ago my partner also had to, among other things apply for and legalize the certificate of 'being unmarried'. But first that statement had to be provided at the town hall (amphur). Before that, father and mother went along as witnesses, both illiterate, to the amphur in Chiang Rai. Lived in a village about 20 km away and had to be picked up by us with our rental car first. The amphur was incredibly busy, mainly with members of hill tribes. After we found out who we had to be with, the long wait began. At that time, the statement was still handwritten. Went for lunch somewhere and came back in the afternoon. Then went to Bangkok with the statement and other papers and the next day by taxi to Chaeng Whattana Road. Colossal office spaces and after many questions and searching found the relevant department. Turns out the statement should have been translated first. Naive and/or stupid of me, but I had assumed that the translation would take place at the Department. Thailand blog as a source of information did not exist then. There were plenty of translation agencies nearby, but we couldn't make it that day so we had to go back the next day. Knew the way and handed everything in by now. Waited again and were then called in to a uniformed official with many ranks. This man looked very stern and told me in neat English that there were some mistakes in the translation. Felt like a schoolboy again but luckily he was willing to right the wrongs. Without even asking for a fee. After passing this stage, waiting for the weekend to go by taxi on Monday, there was no BTS and MRT at that time, to go to the Dutch embassy, where the legalized papers had to be presented for approval. Making an appointment was not necessary at the time and after reporting to the doorman we were allowed to continue to the reception, where Thai embassy employees also handled matters. However, we first had to fill in a form drawn up in English. It is actually surprising that the working language at the Dutch embassy is in fact English. The limited opening hours must have a reason, just as is the case for the Thai embassy in the Netherlands, for example. The afternoons will be used for other things. All in all, quite an exercise to obtain the required document and I can fully imagine your stress. Sometimes I was close to despair, so to speak, but yes, you do it for love in the end. Incidentally, I miss in the enumeration of the documents with regard to the intended marriage your partner's birth certificate. Isn't that required? I still have one question left, when is the planned date of your big day?
@Leo Th.
Thanks for your congratulations.
No thanks Charly, I wish you both many happy years of marriage! I have read on the site of the Netherlands worldwide that the foreign institution that performs the marriage, in your case in Thailand, determines which documents are required. The site states: “For example, a statement of your birth certificate and a statement of marital status”. Not only from Teoy but also from you, which you had already indicated in your enumeration, except for the birth certificates. If you would like to have your marriage registered and legalized in the Netherlands, which is not mandatory, the marriage certificate must be translated in due course and after legalization of the translated certificate by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs (at least that is how it is stated on the site of the Netherlands worldwide) you will have to go to the Dutch embassy again. But you probably already knew that.
@Jasper
You are absolutely right. If I had known this in advance, I would have loved to use the mediation of such an office. Fortunately, you learn by doing. But I assume that it will remain with this marriage and that a next time will not be necessary. I can't imagine situations where such a complicated process is needed again. At most renewing my passport, but that won't be that difficult anyway.
Teoy and Charly, congratulations on your intended marriage!