By Khan Peter

The posts 'The barmaid's fairy tale' and 'Living with prejudices' received many reactions. Thanks for that. However, I do have a few questions after reading all these comments.

  • Becomes the opinion and prejudices that we have about ภาษาไทย have not fed from a kind of superiority thinking? In other words, don't we think we are better, more intelligent, more dutiful, etc. than the Thai?
  • Aren't we jealous of the Thai because they are able to take pleasure in everything (Sanuk)? I think they are much freer in thinking and acting than we are?
  • Are Thai lazy or mainly practical? Why work when a farang plays for Sinterklaas and throws money around?
  • Aren't many Thai women just very businesslike and adept at marketing. She has something you want, so it's worth money? Remember love, attention and sex?

Because if you can answer the above questions with “yes” the puzzle will fit together for me.

Please your opinion.

Thank you all for your contribution, all has been said. The comment option is turned off.

66 Responses to “The Land of the Free”

  1. berthy says up

    Yes Peter, I think your analysis is correct. Thai are much freer than farang, in everything you can think of.

  2. Hansy says up

    I think it is difficult to compare Thai with Dutch, because the cultural difference is so big.

    I've never played Sinterklaas, but have had several bad experiences with Thai girls (not just bar girls)
    And unfortunately I read the same stories too often.

    I also wonder if the Thai interpret the word love in the same way as we do.
    However, when I look at the families I know, that is certainly not the case.
    (Mom provides a little income and Dad only drinks all day: I wondered more than once, what do these people do together and what have they taught their children about love?)

    • berthy says up

      Hansy, Thai women always want to get better from a relationship. The 'Caring for each other' comes first, then love. My young Thai girlfriend partly grew up in Isaan. No running water in the house. If she wanted to wash that nice ass it was in the mud ditch.

      • Hansy says up

        I want to believe you, but most women have to do it with a Thai man.

        And what does it have to offer in this perspective?
        A disinfected mouth all day long?

        • berthy says up

          It's 23.25:XNUMX PM in Chiang Ma and we go sleep, talk to you tomorrow, Hansy.

      • A. Smith says up

        want to respond to Hansy's message, where he states that Thai ladies always want to get better, I don't find that very strange, everyone wants to move forward, and certainly not backward, we also encounter this here,
        it's pretty normal that you care for each other, for better or for worse

        • That's right, it's in every person. You want to move forward, not backward or standing still.

    • Pim says up

      The cultural difference is big, but there are also many differences of culture in Thailand itself.
      I consider myself lucky that I realized when I first came here that I had ended up with the wrong culture for me .
      Now I am with 1 friend whose foster parents work as long as it is light and support me if necessary.
      Together we and the whole family are well on their way to building something good together.
      I have to contradict that all Thai men drink.
      They appreciate me precisely because I don't drink and I can't say that about many fahlangs.
      I kept myself poor for 1 while and was amazed how family, friends and acquaintances tried to help me.
      I couldn't say that about many fahlangs, even more so they often like to see you as the fool who has been tricked.
      Now my friend's children are at 1 high school in BKK with a good job in the future.
      They even have my last name .

  3. Johnny says up

    “Live today and see tomorrow” is the motto of most Thais. Yesterday has been and they look at almost everything from the practical side. Why make it difficult when it can be done easily. Moreover, don't think too much, because that also has many disadvantages.

    I think all this has its origins in Buddhism. “just because I think differently doesn't mean I'm wrong”. Many of their customs have an ancient history, such as the sinsot, for example. The Thai like to hold on to such customs.

    It is difficult for the farang to understand the Thai way of thinking and are often dismissed as stupid or nonsensical. I too have been really biting myself and I still find it difficult. Well, strange people those Thai.

    What makes it even more difficult are the class differences and/or whether someone is from BKK or from Isaan. You have thieves and cheaters everywhere, I will exclude them for now. To begin with, you should look at Thailand through Thai eyes and try to understand why things are the way they are here.

    To do this you will first have to empty your bowl, because it is difficult to fill a bowl that is already full.

    The Dutch like to look at things negatively and their idea is the right one. EVERYTHING in life has two sides, try to find the positive side like every Thai does. You live a lot easier and all worries fall away from you.

    • Pim says up

      Totally agree with you Johnny.
      Here is the stress that made me leave NL completely gone, since I live like a Thai.
      I feel happy here and can't imagine ever having to go back.
      It is striking that without exception 1 everyone who enters NL again in a very short time announces that they want to come back soon.
      It is only when you open the mail that the nostalgia for that sunny country starts to rise again .
      Of course there are occasional problems here, but you can meet them with a smile.

  4. ton says up

    That feeling of superiority: yes, but a lot of people from here have that against other nationalities.

  5. Ferdinand says up

    SUPERIORITY FEELING ??
    The blog fills the time wonderfully, and I read most of the reactions with pleasure. Great to test your own ideas and experiences.

    Pieces of editors and Khun Peter do well. I just sometimes wonder about the huge rose-colored glasses. Have the feeling that many lyrics are written from the Netherlands and do not always have a feeling for the real daily life in Thailand.

    I also recognize the typical Dutch attitude of criticizing ourselves in the statement that opinions stem from a kind of superiority thinking.

    Of course, if you want to stay here temporarily or not, you have to look at everything as positively as possible. Ultimately, we also ask foreign nationals in the Netherlands whether they want to adapt.
    But after years of living “here” I experience that most falangs here have absolutely no attitude of superiority. I leave out Pattaya and some other places.

    Every falang who lives in the Isaan, for example, keeps a low profile as much as possible, nods friendly, lives his own life and tries very carefully to establish relationships with Thais. You always think about the police, visas etc. etc. you want absolutely no problems and just want to live quietly.
    And then you notice after a few years or faster, that most Thais smile friendly, real contact is difficult and that it is precisely here in Thailand that racism was invented (against any other population group). An Isan father next to us does not necessarily want his daughter marries a Negro.

    Yes Buddhist, Christian and Islam live peacefully next to each other but often want nothing to do with each other.
    A falang still gets the feeling that he is so welcome because of his ATM card.

    Superiority thinking? Never experienced a Thai (including best friends, acquaintances and family) who does not think they are better than another. Also read the piece in the Bangkok post quoted in the blog from a Thai herself.

    Criticism of a Thai, self-criticism of a Thai is something non-existent. So why do we suffer from a sense of superiority? . A Thai is always right and will always feel better than the other. Try to argue with a Thai based on arguments.

    What I also regret is that the blog constantly suggests that all opinions and experiences of commenters are based on prejudices.

    In my opinion, all those personal experiences, especially of people who live here and experience it firsthand, are not a prejudice, but they give a realistic picture of Thai society, which is certainly not always positive.
    After a few years here I understand much better how a Turk feels in the Netherlands.

    Yes go to Thailand with a positive attitude!! But abuses are abuses, whether in NL or TH, and you don't brush them off under the guise of cultural differences. Best to be called by name.
    Why should cultural differences be a positive thing? Much of the misery that prevails here stems precisely from that culture.

    Thailand means for many a sense of freedom, but also a lot of misery around you. Look what's behind that smile.
    Fortunately, my Thailand experience is still positive for me. But that doesn't mean you have to walk around here with blinkers.

    And no we are not better, more intelligent (at most better educated). But on the point of more dutiful I strongly doubt. Appointment, work ethic, sense of responsibility (except towards family) are not really strong points here.

    Kudos to editors and Peter for the good work and keeping this forum open. But I like the feeling that many of the stories are written from the Netherlands and a very ruddy Thailand feeling. Just like the parts from the Isaan in which the impression is given that nobody has a shower and everyone is poor.
    Come and see how fast things go in the slightly larger and more centrally located villages.
    Here too it is 2010, Makro, Lotus, Homepro and Globalhouse are nearby, 75% of the families have a new or not new car, wide screen, 2 mopeds. The other 25% are indeed very poor and have nothing and alcohol and gambling as their only pastime.

    There are still 3 questions left from you, so plenty of material

  6. Ferdinand says up

    Jealous ?

    2nd point was whether WE weren't jealous because the Thai is so capable of Sanuk.
    Have you ever thought about the true character traits of the average Thai?
    This again after many years of living here, good contacts with Thais, Thai acquaintances and family, good relationship etc etc.
    My experience is that I have never seen such jealous people as Thais in my entire life. To friends and strangers. Envy all over. Gossip and envy are the national sport, which destroy many relationships, friendships and family relationships here.
    And Thai more free in thinking and acting? Rarely seen such a prejudiced people. Freer? think about the eternal pressure of family, superstition and 1000 rules. All do's and don'ts (special booklets are recommended to every tourist, which are all outdated by the way) You cannot enter Thailand without a manual. How is your work going here, because of all the hierarchical relationships. Little freedom.
    Sounds very negative, but certainly the combination of Thai thinking and acting seems contradictory. Sanuk ? yes if that (mai pen rai ?) means celebrating, eating, drinking, not thinking, not taking responsibility.
    That is not freedom, but exploiting your own and other people's freedom. Gets in the way of your future.

    Is this a prejudice again? Don't just think it based on experience and then it's not prejudice.

    And of course, it does not apply to every Thai. Don't generalize I know.
    But behind a lot of smiles there is something very different from sanuk.
    Envy, jealousy, scheming and often trying to kill each other is not foreign to Thai culture. More than elsewhere ??
    Sanuk in Thailand is something on the outside, on the inside there is often bitterness and envy. Everyone is your best friend, your sister see you tomorrow.
    An advantage is that you as a falang are left alone if you leave them alone. As said "low profile" and you can lead a pleasant life. even if you have to learn to be immune to that jealousy and gossip.

    • jackie says up

      laugh dude!

      if I read your comments like this, I think you belong to the wealthy Thai citizens or not?

      how so jealousy, only in the poor? according to me, the rich are even worse than the poor, the poor, as I knew them, they share things with each other, they were more or less still in solidarity. are you saying that the affluent thai are enlightened? do they have no emotions anymore? are they so enlightened that they have overcome the evil within themselves that they know no jealousy?

      when you have conquered the evil in yourself then you are only enlightened and free, but that is almost impossible

      don't make me laugh man, think a bit before you write something down, is my advice

      bye

      • franky says up

        Dear Tinnakohn,
        I totally agree, even the villagers accept me just by talking to them, not by waving บาท. The negative reactions I read here are self-provoked. I have nothing but admiration for the Thai and respect. My Thai family respects me and I respect them, they are always concerned and never bother you, they feel when something is wrong. I've been robbed before, but through my own carelessness. Many may come and live among the Thai, and they will feel oh so small.

        • jackie says up

          good for you franky if you have it that way if you just treat people as equals and don't do less and stuff then you'll be fine it doesn't matter if they are poor or rich or from whatever region in thailand .

          well, dear tinnakon, good of you! I'm just writing something here but okay I'm poor too.

          from what sources do you have it that the people of the isaan are low or uneducated? sources please.

          I am curious if you really inherited Dutch norms and values ​​if you were born in Thailand and grew up here. I've often seen enough of those cubs that came with the mother or those half-bloods, I think they've been tagged 1 by 1. I could be wrong but I don't think I'm blind, I do have baptisms in my head. little comes from those youngsters. they make a mess, if you are in thai circles then you understand what i mean, i hope. and I also hope that you are an exception, so not one of those youngsters that I have seen.

          regards.

          • Please don't get too personal or I'll intervene.

          • A little less offensive is also allowed, Jakkie. Otherwise, take a look at the rules regarding comments.

    • Ferdinand says up

      Jealousy only in lower social class ?? Actually too simple to answer. Just like in NL, the more one has, the more one is, especially in Thailand means wanting to have it again (with violence if necessary) and especially giving in to people who don't have it.
      Worst, if anywhere, "fallen up types".
      Get the feeling that Tinnakohn" has lost contact with "his" own Thailand for a while. And we'd better not give that high either. Social class, study, Dutch (or whatever nat) norms or values ​​may make you more prosperous but not a better person. Rich and poor often make the same mistakes, only one is more clever than the other.
      And stupid because someone watches SBS/RTL? Have you ever seen Thai TV? about and of the “better” environments ?

      • Jealousy is of all times and among all classes. True what you say.

  7. Ferdinand says up

    3rd point
    Thai lazy or practical ? Does one contradict it more closely?
    Seeing a Thai working in the Isaan if it is not immediately necessary. ? Pay salary preferably per day or at most per week. If too much at once, he will not come for the next few days.

    Doesn't corruption also have to do with laziness? Rather work for nothing than work for it.
    Pay advances on work? Don't, you'll never see them again.
    Occasionally fell on my face? Yes ! Not bitter, but learned and wiser.

    In a private house, the floor is generally neat and clean, after all, that's where you sit and eat. Do not put your hand above eye level (the disadvantage is that you are taller if you are falang) eg on the refrigerator. It sticks.
    The daily waste is layered under the house on stilts instead of the container that is collected here every 2 days. Practical or lazy?

    I don't scatter money around as a falang, it's also the only way to be seen as an equal and get some respect instead of a pitying look.

    Again, don't generalize here. there are also many Thais who work 14 hours a day.
    But for "rather lazy than tired" there will definitely be a Thai translation.
    There is often enough work here. But it is often impossible to find employees. Skilled or unskilled

    Let's get straight to the last topic Thai women businesslike and skilled in marketing.? Selling love, attention and sex? Yes, of course, but is this not an extension of lazy and easygoing?

    Almost every woman I know here thinks it's quite natural that she or a family member or even her own daughter sells herself or at least has no problem with it.
    Still much easier and less tiring than working for a modest wage in a shop. Losing face is no longer an issue here. It's established and you're seen as stupid if you don't do it.

    Each village has 4 karaokes and a “bungalow park” on each approach road. One village pops into another and every representative young woman earns something on the side.

    As a falang you only have to indicate that you are up for it and in the coming months you will be overwhelmed with offers”. It beats, sweeps and sucks for the right amount of baths.

    Lack of education is indeed a cause. But have you ever tried to teach a Thai something. The old guard even tries very actively to stop the young people if they want to learn something above the age of 14. Considered nonsense. girl is going to get married anyway or better become mia noi and boy better go to work in Bangkok.
    No stories, but close-up experiences.

    Selling love, attention and sex, I have nothing against it, (I'm not a saint, as a consumer also nice and easy, no consequences, nice and non-binding) but elsewhere it's just called prostitution and no marketing.

    I know it can be very hard work, but it also has something to do with laziness. Especially because the reason is not always that eternal poverty, but often the desire for luxury. And… much of the money is spent on booze and gaming. Also such an ineradicable folk custom. Alcohol is a huge problem in Thailand. Difficult country for a non alcoholic like me.

    As a conclusion then more that I hold Thai women in high esteem. In the right circumstances and with a bit of luck you will find the sweetest life partner. If she is also not jealous (already a bit more difficult in Thailand), has no greedy family and a little school, then you can't believe your luck.
    If you're unlucky, you end up with a life-threatening, jealous and sour money wolf. But yes, you also run that chance in NL and divorces are more expensive there.

    Thailand remains the land of possibilities for the adventurer, provided that you keep your eyes open and manage your money wisely. Otherwise it's a quick one way return.

    • I'll respond to all your bits Ferdinand

      Another well-argued story Ferdinand. The fact that you live a low profile in order not to stand out too much is separate from superiority thinking. You can do both.

      That with those 'pink' glasses is not too bad. I often get reactions (also by email) that we (I) are too critical towards Thai. Those are times when you need to reset the computer in your head. I try to form an image from different angles. Howling with the wolves in the forest is not that difficult.

      The opinion that the Dutch have about foreigners is often fed from the idea of ​​superiority. Often unconsciously too, so I'm not talking about far right people.

      I do think that you use the 'Western' yardstick to make your judgment. You use Dutch standards to judge the Thais. That is what Calvinist thinking is all about. Our standards and values ​​are dictated to us by the church. The influence the church has on our society is still very great. You are actually saying that a Thai should live like a good Dutchman, then he would be a good Thai. But that's the other way around. I also wonder if we should determine what is good or bad.

      What strikes me most are two things. People go to Thailand as a tourist and they think the Thai lifestyle is fantastic:
      – nice and indifferent, they always laugh (Mai Pen Rai)
      – no suffocating rules
      – free sex, not all that cramped
      – cheap, in Thailand your guilder is worth a thaler
      – nice weather, always warm

      Once in love with Thailand or a Thai, one goes back as an expat/pensionado and you hear:
      – what a terribly indifferent people (Mai Pen Rai), no sense of duty
      – there are no rules, they don't adhere to anything and you can't make agreements with Thais
      – those Thais fuck like rabbits with everyone
      – everything is becoming more expensive here and the euro is less valuable
      – it's sweltering here, you're sweating like crazy

      It just depends on how you look at it, the glass is half full or half empty. We Dutch like it all. The good of NL and the advantages of Thailand. That's just not possible.

      But thanks again for your extensive contribution, it does make me think again.

      • Robert says up

        Dear Peter, now I really have to intervene, utter nonsense what you put here. Ferdinand's story has absolutely nothing to do with Dutch Christian Calvinist standards. I work in many countries in Asia and the problems with the Thai are not only noticed by the Dutch on this blog. Ask the Singaporeans, ask the Hong Kong Chinese, ask the Malaysians - they all point to similar problems with the Thais. I will disregard the subjective Cambodians, but shit, if the Filipinos are complaining about you, something is really going on. Nevertheless, Thailand is a great country and you just have to adapt here. But come on - there are a lot of things wrong at all levels in Thailand. That is not a Dutch or Western opinion – that is a fact.

      • Robert says up

        By the way, you hit the nail on the head with the last part – everything is fun in the beginning and after a while it turns 180 degrees with certain people. This of course has to do with habituation and how often one is exposed to certain behaviour. Expats will be annoyed by things that are fun and charming to a tourist. You can live with 'mai pen rai' for 3 weeks on holiday - if you depend on Thai for certain things and it is 'mai pen rai' year after year, that gives a different perspective on things. Personally, I find it a challenge to work here and still get my thing done. But please don't deny that there are problems in Thailand, this is measurable. You can't easily abdicate to 'you think this, I think that'.

    • franky says up

      Disgusting what I read here, I myself live in Thailand. Not in a tourist village, just in the middle of the people. You always have chaff among the wheat, but as I read it all here. Normally I never respond, but now I can't resist, probably because I'm a Belgian and there are cultural differences with the Netherlands.

      • Steve says up

        I always have a hard time understanding Belgians, so again now. What is disgusting? You don't write that. How do you think it is then? You don't write that. What cultural differences are there with the Netherlands? You don't write that.

        Please something more to the point, please southern neighbor.

    • Steve says up

      You always have little to add Roon….

  8. Johnny says up

    Ferdinand,

    If you look through Western eyes you are of course right about many things. If you would look through Thai eyes, but you don't have such a point and you see the fun or the practicality of it.

    For me the question arose "I have to do something with this", because I want to live here and not be annoyed every day by things that are different than in the Netherlands.

    • Robert says up

      I don't feel that Ferdinand is annoyed by this, he just answers Peter's statements. His reactions give a very real and recognizable image, without playing on the man or in this case on the land.

      He also does not indicate whether it is good or bad, or better or worse than in NL. He's just describing, and if you live here these are things you'll have to acknowledge too. Many articles on this blog are fun to read, he says so, but indeed a lot of material is written from a Western visitor's perspective. That's not a bad thing, as long as it's not seen as absolute truth.

      Nevertheless, Thailand is a great country for a rich farang.

      • Johnny says up

        I described it as being annoyed, whether he was actually annoyed I don't know. I can only write from my own experiences. So I know that my inexperience led to some sort of annoyance and that I realized I had to do something about this. So if you try to live and think like a Thai everything looks a lot different. I always try to think something like “what would it be like if I was born and raised here? “. Then I would experience a lot of things as being normal, things that are absolutely not normal for Westerners.

        Despite my "Thai" look, I have to say I can't agree with many things here. That could have been a bit better. Whether that will actually happen? Well…..

      • Ferdinand says up

        No, it really doesn't bother me. At least not constantly and no more than in another country or the Netherlands.

        I don't live like a Thai, not like a Dutchman, not like an American. I live as ME and react to what I perceive as good or bad. Regardless of country or culture. Free from any belief or dogma.

        Certain basic values ​​are the same everywhere. Sincerity, honesty, responsibility and I hope love, and a few more of those things. I like to feel like a citizen of the world.
        Many things are not right in Thailand, just like in NL or other countries, but as stated, the overall feeling is good, just like me here. But that doesn't mean I have to jubilate all day about everything I see.

        • jackie says up

          hey,

          Certain basic values ​​are the same everywhere. Sincerity, honesty…..

          very good ferdinand, keep it up,

          respect!

          cheers!

        • Hansy says up

          You can try to live the way you live, one thing you can never deny, and that is your background.

          vb
          I grew up as a Christian, for 22 years Christian values ​​have been stamped into me.
          Then I left the church.
          That is really not just closing the door behind you and all biblical values ​​and standards are behind you.

  9. In the conversations I have had with expats you often hear that the image of the Thai is based on a certain class. Or the lower class, or the middle class, or the upper class. What we know of the Thai is often based on the lower class (the largest group of course). But things are different in the middle class.

    I even hear stories of Thai women supporting a farang husband. So that preconception of squeezing doesn't always hold true. It will also have to do with which Thai you are dealing with.

    • Johnny says up

      Idd Peter, I am such a farang who came to Thai with 12,50 euros in my pocket. Over 3 months here "partied". I also received a beautiful gold medal, the size of a saucer. I thought it had to do with our nocturnal evening hours, but it turned out to be a Pomoei. 😉

      Trust me, the middle class looks down on the lower class. Not to mention the upper class, the super rich. (I won't write what the Thai says) (just go to a large store, ask something difficult in English and after half an hour have a conversation with the manager)

      I would like to say something about education. Thai people don't really talk to each other, they are almost never straightforward. Dad does not interfere at all with parenting and many things are NEVER said or taught. Most of it is still picked up from the daily soaps… and sorry… they are so terribly wrong. So it's quite normal for Thai that this all goes like this. (Did you know that the Thai think that the farang has sex with everyone and everyone???) Moreover, they almost always see the farang in Thailand dragging bargirls. Love and loving are experienced and explained in a completely different way, so you really have to explain and reason EVERYTHING. The relationship with the parents is usually distant. Did you know that it has been estimated that 24% of the population suffers from ADD? Or ADHD? Or some form of it? Oh no? My uncle always says: they are like children, you have to forgive and guide them.

    • Steve says up

      You really hit the nail on the head here! All the stories you can read here or on other sites, they are based on lower class experiences. That gives a pretty distorted picture.
      Please stop generalizing. Are all Frisians, Zeelanders, Brabanders, Limbos the same? No!!

      Wake up people. Your scope is too limited to judge.

      • Oh Steve, people are allowed to judge, but try to be open to other arguments as well.

    • Robert says up

      Peter, certain things in Thailand can be found in all classes. I have more to do with hiso than loso in my profession, and I didn't want to withhold your accompanying article. Not the Nation is very sharp in denouncing certain things in Thai society in a sarcastic way. Enjoy reading!

      http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=379

      • Yes, funny to read. So can I…

    • Ferdinand says up

      Yes I can confirm. Up close.

      Due to circumstances he has barely 3.000 baht to spend, she gets by on less than 7.000 p.m. from her shop.

      They manage together and take care of neither a child for 6 years. Without her, he wouldn't have a visa at all.
      They live in her house. All he has is an old car and an even older moped, but the best is probably her love and care.
      Unfortunately, I know more examples to the contrary, but thought this one was also a nice one to share.

  10. Johnny says up

    Oh… I forgot something.

    Thai people don't make such a point of sex, it doesn't weigh that much. So if a Thai lady dives into the suitcase with you after a night out, it does not mean that she loves you or has a relationship with you. She thinks you're a nice guy and if you really want some ding dong, oh well... who cares. But farang are quick to connect something to that. WRONG WRONG WRONG. For a Thai woman, completely different things are important, such as that she takes you to her parental home, ie you are a suitor.

    Is there also a blog?

    • Steve says up

      What do you mean by Beglieblog??

    • The link in our society between sex-love-romance means that a farang has different expectations from a relationship with a Thai woman than the other way around. Another sharp conclusion from Johnny. In fact, I am convinced that 90% of the problems with Thai women stem from that.

      Still advisable to have the booklet Thai Fever to read. Works enlightening. It actually contains everything.

    • Ferdinand says up

      Easy sex is also one of the reasons why "we" came to Thailand. Have no problem with it. Enjoy it, the Thai do too.

      • Steve says up

        That's a prejudice ferdinand, sorry ;-). But I do think you're right.

        • manolo says up

          Yes STeve where you occur, we now know that. Please keep it tidy, all children inside.

  11. guyido good lord says up

    yes guys , no female reactions so far, it's something !
    I actually don't think Thailand is that different from the rest of the world.
    I have not lived in the Netherlands since 1987 and class companies can be found everywhere, I was in California, New York, quite a bit of class, lived in Italy, poof what a class society, France the same but not so clear…and yes now Thailand.
    I think that every individual creates his own world, contacts that I have here are both upper and middle class, and of course the lower and that mixes up pretty easily.
    The difference is that the tops have an orange color and the low ones are red.
    isn't that the case everywhere?

    maybe it's a difference that I'm not in a Buddhist environment, I don't know, but in my in-laws the gentlemen don't drink, I'm the only one who drinks a decent glass of beer with my in-law...
    I am also the one who puffs a cigar, no one else.
    my family here has helped me a lot, with all kinds of Thai ceremonies, visa laser, driver's license, house book, rental contracts, car purchase.
    my brother-in-law even guarantees me financially because of course I have no banking history in Thail;and.
    and is that special?
    I do not think so.
    I also received so much cooperation in my profession as a painter, from transport to hanging, pubicity and photography that has never happened at this level in the fantastic west…and certainly not in France where I have lived for the last 14 years.
    The French are prone to selfishness, I can't say that about Thais.
    in short, everything will be wrong in Thailand, and yes if you are used to Europe or the USA it is a bit complicated with the visa, but how are Thais treated by Schengen or the USA?
    horrible.
    they almost do not enter fortress Europe, you have to move heaven and earth with proof, bank accounts, property papers and god knows what more. And yes, when your girlfriend or boyfriend finally passes passport control, where you are also asked to prove that there are 37 € per day in resources, then the person must go to the police within 3 days to report, otherwise this counts as a crime.
    Isn't it wonderful that knowing Europe?
    give me Thailand , with air conditioning .

    so we complain? oh…

    • Steve says up

      guyido a reaction from my heart. People who have seen more of the world or have lived in other countries will recognize this. Everywhere you find something and everywhere you leave something.

      A few months ago I read a story about a young Dutch man who was looking for peace and quiet and traveled through Thailand for a few months with only his backpack and a hundred euros. He could eat and sleep with him for free. That is also Thailand.

    • Hi Guido, an excellent nuance and a clear story. Unfortunately never even a response from a woman. A Thai woman would be great. We only talk over the Thai and not with the Thai. What always strikes me is that expats who master the Thai language also have a much more nuanced picture of Thailand and Thai society. The culture, class and language differences make it extra difficult to understand each other properly.

      • guyido good lord says up

        I'll poke Nina Peter, but that will be a story in thinglish ......

  12. Johnny says up

    Everyone should know for themselves what they think or do. For me every Thai is equal and you decide whether or not you want to have contact with them. Freedom happiness I say so. EVERY choice make yourself.

    Moreover, I sincerely hope that everyone on this blog has become a little wiser and that this may contribute to an even happier life. And everyone is different, what one cursed is worshiped by the other.

    Thailand (plus the people in it) is a completely different life and cannot be compared to the Netherlands at all.

    Success!

    • As far as I'm concerned, this concludes the discussion. It is good to come up with arguments and try to convince others. But everyone has their own ideas, experiences and motives. Your own background, origin, goals and ambitions often determine how you look at others. That is different per person. You then get into the same discussion as when I have to convince someone that peanut butter is tasty. Yes, for some it is and for others it is disgusting. You never come out.

  13. Gerrit says up

    Sometimes I think I live in a different Thailand than the Dutch people who express their opinion here.
    With the Thais with whom I am friends (or in my circle of acquaintances) have a very normal family life
    Of course it is true that many Thai men drink way too much, just like many in the Netherlands. Drinking a lot is of all times and everywhere. But here too, the same applies: especially in the villages.
    In the villages boys already drink a lot and also use drugs (jabai)
    I spent my early childhood in a village in Overijssel and many people were already taking it there.
    Just like here in Thailand.
    The trend in Thailand, as in the Netherlands, is that the youth who go to higher schools / university consist of many more girls than boys. The pupils from the villages often spend more than an hour on the bus to visit the school (and back again, of course).
    You also see a lot of women in all sorts of important positions. I feel much more than in the Netherlands.

    And the sex.
    A lot of women don't put up with it if their husband cheats and or gamble away all their money. They often go on alone.
    Many girls and women in well-known places such as Pattaya etc also have such experiences. They try to earn as much as possible to give their children a good education.
    I do respect that.

    I notice that the many posts in Thailand blog make me think much more about all sorts of situations and problems in Thailand.

    I experience it as very positive.

    GJ

    • Good to hear Gerrit. All opinions together plus our own experiences help to form a good picture. Let's hope that the image also matches reality 😉

  14. Henry says up

    Ferdinand: well worded those 4 points you save me a lot of writing and yes Khun Peter I also think that the questions cannot be answered with a resounding yes and the puzzle pieces will not fall into place and that is not meant to be sarcastic or hateful.

    • Hi Henry, I don't take it as such either. I have no illusions that we can simply answer these kinds of questions with 'yes' or 'no'. It's never black or white, mostly gray. Sometimes I make my story a bit stimulating or I post a statement to evoke reactions. I also learn from your opinions and reactions. Between all those reactions, sometimes with a lot of emotion, I am looking for the nuance or how I can adjust my own image.

  15. Ferdinand says up

    Yes you are right discussion has been going on long enough and everything has been said. Nice that it appeals to everyone.
    My closing reaction: I think it's a pity that the subject is always discussed from a Dutch / Western or Thai point of view. The "strange" thing is that I haven't felt Dutch for years, but just a citizen of the world. Been to many countries. I am not comparing one country to another. But what's wrong is wrong in every country. This cannot always be made up for with the remark “cultural difference”.
    Furthermore, I enjoy following all the discussions in this blog and I live with even more pleasure, but sometimes also with some surprise, in Thailand.
    We wish you lots of fun and discoveries in Thailand.

  16. ThailandGanger says up

    I actually have to laugh at all these comments. It just confirms what we've all been thinking about for a long time

    1. how Westerners think about the Thai
    2. how the thai think about the westerners
    3. how Westerners think about Westerners who have entered into a Thai relationship.
    4. what thai think about thai who have a relationship with a westerner.

    I recognize many of the things mentioned because I experience them that way. Unfortunately, a rotten apple ruins the whole basket unless you remove it prematurely. As Churchill said, “The bad news has already gone around the world while the good news has yet to put on its shoes”. And that's exactly what's going on there. The bad experiences linger and go round at a furious pace, the good news (if it is there at all) may be seen but somehow doesn't stick. How did that happen? Isn't that the jealousy of the recipient of the message or are we humans just such that we remember the bad better?

    it is a pity that many things such as those described here are indeed and can be confirmed by many. Maybe because it's just true? Isn't it time people started looking at themselves (Thai and Westerners, everyone)? As long as there is poverty, these things will continue to go on, because poverty encourages people to do strange things.

    The biggest disappointment I've experienced is a family member grabbing something he knows he shouldn't have and taking it under his clothes hoping I don't see it. When I look at that from the point of view of poverty, I say: I understand that. If you look at that from a familial bond: I don't get it.

    But as Peter says… the first time everything is hosanna… every next time that changes and you see things as they really are and you get, as Hans Bos has described before: an annoyance top 10? But that is often based on our Western expectations and working methods, I have discovered. The question is, can you and do you want to and should you perhaps renounce that?

    Anyone have an idea? Not me.

    • Hansy says up

      "The biggest disappointment I've had is when a family member takes something he knows he shouldn't have and puts it under his clothes in the hopes I don't see it."

      My brother was also robbed by his own Thai in-laws.
      Given what I've read about Thai, I can't explain that other than that they just don't give a shit about foreigners.

  17. guyido good lord says up

    yes , dear thailandgoer , every individual has his own reality .
    that reality will change when you end up in another place on earth, not as a tourist but as a resident.
    Expectation patterns rarely come true, representations of something are always different than your brain fills it in.
    the simplest thing is not to have any expectations, I admit that is difficult because an expectation somewhere incites you to action….
    negative emotions are definitely more intense than positive ones, I lived in beautiful places, and amazingly enough that was short-lived positive, it became normal wonderfully quickly.
    so is my experience with negative events, they also normalize fearfully quickly.
    that is the power of consciousness.adaptation .
    there is no Thai equal to the other and also in the west there is not a second individual like myself.
    everything remains a personal experience.
    what I find pleasant in Thailand is that people you meet are quickly open to ideas, whether it is your own gwin or not, I don't care, you are there to put the brakes on yourself, aren't you...
    for me that is the biggest difference with France, for example, where nobody interferes with you.
    thailand will still face an uncertain time, and that will also affect the relations between thai, but that is actually nothing new, in good old europe it was the IRA and ETA that did not operate properly, so let's also don't be the wise kid in class.
    and I think that the annoyance top 100, especially concerns yourself, annoyance does not change much, only your own mood sinks through the ground ...

    Hello

    • I join!

    • ThailandGanger says up

      I cannot share your opinion of France. It mainly depends on how you position yourself in that country. But that also applies to Thailand. As the French always say: C'est le ton qui fait la musique and that certainly applies to Thailand.

      I share your opinion that if you keep getting annoyed you better do something else because your mood drops to zero and nothing changes anyway.

      But just for the record: it concerned and does not concern my annoyance top 10 (which suddenly turns into a top 100) nor did I suggest that I am constantly annoyed in Thailand. There was a question mark.

  18. Ferdinand says up

    My background ? father and mother from different (albeit European) countries. Never had anything to do with any religion. Like to think for yourself and don't want to be suffocated by any religion or culture. Man is basically free. As long as you can think soberly and treat people kindly and diligently, you and your environment will be fine.

    Actually, I hate culture, any religion or belief that sets rules and restrictions. Every sane thinking person knows what is good or bad.

    The advantage of Thailand, a country full of culture, rules, everything that is wrong: you can live wonderfully freely if you respect everyone, they will let you do the same. At least as a falang. Among themselves, the Thais cause more problems, are very similar to the Dutch.

    • Hansy says up

      [quote]Every sane thinking person knows what is good or bad.[quote]

      This is part of my culture and taught to me by mom and dad.

      Is it in your genes for sure?

      • Ferdinand says up

        You're right. That's why I hate culture so much if it means following habits. We can also use our brains ourselves. I'll leave it at that, everything has really been said now.
        The rainy season is almost over, I'm going to enjoy the land, sun, food and women here. Nothing good but I like it fine.

        • Thank you all for your contribution, all has been said. The comment option is turned off.


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