Some time ago it was reported on this blog that ABN AMRO will close the accounts of people living outside the EU. I have asked ABN AMRO for clarification on this. To that I received the following reply:
“I have received your complaint regarding the closure of accounts of persons residing outside the EU.
I understand that you are unpleasantly surprised by this measure and that this is an annoying message for you.
It is true that ABN AMRO has decided to say goodbye to customers residing in a large number of countries outside Europe (and some countries within Europe). This has nothing to do with personal situations of our individual customers. So also not with whether they are employed or retired. There is no discrimination.
Whether customers can keep their account depends entirely on their country of residence. Again, this has nothing to do with whether you are retired or not. This strategy is based on the fact that increasing legislation and regulations make it increasingly risky and costly for ABN AMRO to provide our services in the countries we are leaving. ABN AMRO is a bank with a moderate risk profile, and in order to maintain that profile, it is no longer possible for us to provide our services worldwide. ABN AMRO takes its social responsibility seriously and a moderate risk profile is part of this. We must therefore still ask you to close your accounts with ABN AMRO and we cannot make any exceptions to this.
Not all banks have the same policy in this area. Customers are not obliged to place their banking affairs in their country of residence and are free to choose a bank within or outside this country. There are banks in the Netherlands where you could place your banking affairs, where customers living outside Europe can become customers. But you are free to choose a bank in any country, you are not limited to Thailand and / or the Netherlands in this. You may also be eligible for a credit card at a bank outside these two countries.
It is true that we make an exception for expats. In other words, for people who are temporarily staying in a country outside Europe for work and/or study, but who will return to a European country within 3 years. Their employer signs a special statement for this. Not all workers are therefore exempt from this policy.
You will be personally notified by us by letter and/or bank email. This describes the motivation behind this strategy of ABN AMRO and also what this means for your personal situation. Of course you can always contact us personally for more information, help and/or advice. Or we can contact you personally by telephone at your request. We can then help you arrange practical matters that you encounter.
I can imagine that the answer will disappoint you. Nevertheless, I trust to have informed you clearly and sufficiently. If you have any questions or comments, we would like to hear from you.
Kind Regards/ Sincerely,
****** |Advisor International Clients Retail | ABN Amro Bank | International Client Retail
Visit address The Base 3rd floor | E. van de Beekstraat 2 | 1118 CL Schiphol, NL |
Postal address E.van de Beekstraat 1-53 | 1118 CL Schiphol, NL | PAC AZ 1510
Phone +31 (0) 20 628 18 28″
Recent reports on this blog that things will not go that fast turn out to be unfounded. I wish anyone affected by this a successful search for something else.
Submitted by Klaas
Does she even realize what incomprehensible language she is spouting? ABN AMRO's strategy is based on the fact that increasing legislation and regulations...more risky...and more expensive...moderate risk profile and so on.
What does this have to do with accounts held by Dutch people outside Europe at a Dutch bank? Can I assume that the computers are in the Netherlands and not in Afghanistan or India?
Which increasing laws and regulations is Suzanne talking about? According to her letter, this does not apply to all Dutch banks. And what on earth is the risk of a Dutch bank account into which, for example, AOW and/or pension are paid monthly?
I can't draw any soup from the letter at all. In fact, I get the impression that the addressee is being sent to hell with a blah blah story. The question then is what the real reason is if ABN AMRO proceeds to this 'strategy'?
Hans, no matter how annoying, but suzan and the amrobank don't talk nonsense. There is increasing regulation for people who live in non-eu countries. Simply has to do with money flow control and obligations to exchange and pass on data to government departments.
The same thing happens to you if you, as an American (US), want to open an account with a Thai bank. The registration form for a bank account in Thailand asks whether you are a US resident. If that is you, the bank will simply have a lot of extra work on you! Very annoying, but if you are a bank manager you also make these kinds of considerations. In addition, a bank will not be of much use to you as a customer. No insurance, no financing, etc., etc. So those are just commercial considerations. Annoying, but you really have little to say about that.
The bank also has this data exchange with residents outside the Netherlands, but within the EU. So a kularargument after all.
Legally they can't do that at all, if you meet all the obligations. Have already checked with a lawyer. Nor is it an EU measure.
I bank with the abn and they can count on me to challenge them if they want to close my bank account. You can just buy a house etc, and then no longer have a bank account.
Dijselbloem stated this in 2015 and given that abn is still largely owned by the state, government pressure will be exerted.
Of course better if the letter comes to than jointly object to abn against the cancellation of bank accounts.
It does not have to be a problem at all if you keep a postal address in the Netherlands for ABNAMRO.
I do internet banking through my ABN account in Holland, even though I have lived here for years..
Just put it on the address of a family member in the Netherlands ..
The account is also canceled by ABN Amro at a postal address in the Netherlands.
I have already indicated that I have sent an official letter to ABN. Still waiting for response. Must come within 3 months. But I think we're getting the short end of the stick.
Nevertheless, I think we should speak up. Although it is unclear whether it will yield any results.
Already indicated that you can only open an account in your own name in Laos if you have a work permit. If you are retired, you normally do not have it. You can then only open an account in the name of a Laotian and be an authorized representative for that account. But formally the money is in another man's name.
It was stated on the forum that you can open an account with Triodos Bank. Well forget it. My registration for an account that was already promised has still been refused. And not because I made a mistake when registering, but only because I live outside the EU.
Tip for Laos: at STB banking you can open an account without a work permit if a Lao person signs (every) piece of paper that that person knows you and that you are in good faith.
All they told me was a maximum of $5k per day.
The bill was in USD.
The bank fees for incoming money were pretty pricey 40$ 30$
I have heard this story so many times on Thailandblog, but I have still not heard through my bank email that they intend to do so. It even seems unlikely to me that a bank can cancel an account on its own initiative, there are always 2 parties. And if the Abnamro that does, what is the problem with moving banks en masse ????
The question is, of course, whether other banks are interested in customers from Thailand.
And if so, for how long.
I also recently received a letter from De ABN stating that I must transfer my credit balances and my securities to another bank within 6 months. ABN does offer me to pay the interest on the credits (nice, isn't it), as well as to reimburse any bank costs.
You can open an account at the SNS bank, but then you have to visit the office. I will request ABN to reimburse the costs for a return ticket to NL as well as the accommodation costs.
The conditions of ABN state that both parties can dissolve the agreement (see below)
Article 35: Termination of the relationship
Both the client and the bank can record the relationship between them in writing
cancel in whole or in part. If the bank the relationship
cancels it, it will indicate the reason for the cancellation upon request
the client along. After termination of the relationship, the between
the client and the bank existing individual agreements
settled as soon as possible with due observance of the
applicable deadlines. Remain during settlement
these general banking terms and conditions and the individual
agreements applicable specific conditions of
application.
From a global player in the banking field to a cozy village bench. The predecessors of (former civil servant) Dijkhuizen will get stomach cramps. What a loss for ABNAmro.
Then look for a real bank.
I have passed on my change of address and the fact that I live in Thailand is not a problem for the Rabobank because my income can only be paid into a Dutch bank account, according to my health insurer I can simply remain insured because wage tax, etc. is withheld!
It strikes me that ABN requests the customer to close the account… I will not be surprised that they do not do this themselves because they are legally quite weak. Just wait and see who has the longest breath I would say.....
This is getting interesting. So how is it done with customers who have a credit card with payment in installments when the bank account is closed? If a bank does this to me, they can count on me going to court, for sure. Being kicked out of a Dutch Central Bank as a Dutchman, just because there is not enough to grab (believe me, that is the real reason) is not going to happen.
Weird story that a bank could just cancel the relationship. Another weird answer from the bank indeed. The fact that they themselves state that the cancellation 'has nothing to do with the customer's personal situation' makes it immediately open to challenge on the basis of a duty of care. In addition, they do not provide services 'in countries outside Europe' at all ('it is no longer possible for us to provide services all over the world'). They provide a service in NL that happens to be used by Dutch people who live outside Europe. That's something completely different.
http://www.wieringa-advocaten.nl/nl/weblog/2011/09/30/beeindiging-van-de-bankrelatie
https://blog.legaldutch.nl/zorgplicht-banken-zakelijke-klanten/
I would like to join the people who want to start a procedure or lawsuit against ABN AMRO. The real motive is cost savings and profit motive, i.e. profit. Not the regulations, then all banks would have to do this and there are no banks in other EU countries that currently do this.
I have been in contact with various banks since mid-December, but in the end the problem always appears to be: a new account can only be obtained if the person concerned reports personally to the office in the Netherlands. Idea to make ABN-AMRO responsible for the costs of a return flight to Thailand. A bank account with the name of a family member poses a problem with taxes, because the Netherlands adds this to the income of the family member in question and therefore has an additional burden.
My question to a lawyer is: can ABN-AMRO be forced to find another bank without having to appear personally at the counter in the Netherlands, for example by guaranteeing another bank that the person is reliable, possibly supplemented by a family member in the Netherlands. Looking forward to response.