July Blog Ambassador Kees Rade (10)
De Dutch ambassador in thailand, Keith Rade, writes a monthly blog for the Dutch community, in which he outlines what he has been doing in the past month.
Dear compatriots,
On the eve of my departure to the sweltering Netherlands (from the rain in the drizzle…) a short summer blog, as announced in my previous blog. Short, because you can tell from the amount of emails, visitors and meetings that the holiday season has arrived. But that does not mean that nothing is happening at all, on the contrary.
First of all, of course, the developments in the political field in Thailand. At the moment we are in the middle of a process that is somewhat reminiscent of our Prinsjesdag, a positive development. Now that PM Prayut's new team has been announced, with the word "new" being relative, attention is turning to the statement that this government will submit to parliament, and to the debate that will be held about it. With all the comments that can be made about the election process and the treatment that Future Forward has received, for example, it is good to see that the opposition will have more than 13 hours of speaking time to comment on the government statement. A new and refreshing image for Thailand. There are many arguments for calling the Thai democratic glass half empty or half full, and it is precisely for this reason that the EU has decided on a “balanced re-engagement”. We do business, we negotiate bilaterally, but we do not close our eyes to the shortcomings of the democratic process. This attitude is not always understood by our Thai counterparts, who often refer to Vietnam, a country with considerably less democratic space than Thailand, but with which the EU has just signed a far-reaching free trade agreement. We are also hearing similar voices from Cambodia, where the EU is considering withdrawing trade benefits due to the banning of the main opposition party. The answer from Brussels (and The Hague): it is not so much about the situation at a given moment, but more about the development, about whether the democratic process is moving in a positive or negative direction.
Furthermore, I had two special visits in recent weeks, both related to a controversial episode in the history of Southeast Asia. First of all, we received a large delegation from representatives of the BBC and Netflix at the beginning of July. They wanted to visit our compound to get an idea of the circumstances under which a young Dutch diplomat had worked at the embassy in 1975. This diplomat, Herman Knippenberg, had played an important role in the arrest of Charles Sobraj, one of the most notorious mass murderers in modern history. Sobraj is suspected of murdering at least 12, and possibly as many as 24, young Western tourists traveling through Southeast Asia. He has been imprisoned in several countries, has also escaped a few times, and is currently imprisoned in Nepal.
The life story of this Sobraj is so intriguing that the BBC and Netflix have decided to make a documentary series about it. They have been collecting material and interviewing key actors since 2014. They are not considering filming in our compound at the moment, but thought it was useful to get a taste of the atmosphere.
From them I learned that Herman Knippenberg himself, who now lives in New Zealand, was also in Bangkok at that time. Of course I immediately invited him, and on July 23 we spoke extensively about this special period. It was very interesting to learn first hand how his intense detective work and tenacity made it possible to connect Sobraj to a number of murders, not always with the encouragement of his superiors and little support from the Thai police either. cooperation, to put it mildly. I am very curious about the documentary itself!
Finally, another subject that concerns many, and to which the NVT Bangkok has drawn our attention: the infamous TM.30 form. A few weeks ago, my French colleague reported during an EU meeting that he had heard noises from the French community in Thailand that the obligation to register foreign guests had recently been actively monitored. None of the other colleagues had heard similar noises. Since then, however, we have also received signals from various quarters that the situation is in any case opaque. Registering guests online is also not very easy, if only because a lot of information is not available in English. A worrying situation, which we will first raise at EU level and then take up with our counterparts at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. We will keep you informed!
Incidentally, we plan to travel to a number of places in Thailand in the second half of the year to meet the Dutch community there again. Then we can also listen to your experiences with the TM.30 form and provide consular services. If there are special events around the Dutch community in Phuket, Hua Hin, Pattaya or Chiang Mai, if possible in an N/A context, we would like to hear about this so that we can take this into account in the planning.
Regards,
Keith Rade
Nice and clear story, thank you.
Thailand will never be governed in a democratic manner as in the Netherlands. Doesn't have to be, because it doesn't always work that well either. This what happened now is already very good. So if the EU also express its appreciation. Before the stash grab it was a mess with daily deaths. This has been rejected by the population with this election
I think it is positive that the EU Member States are jointly taking up the TM30 notification obligation. Don't forget to also bring the TM28.
The TM 30 Event is becoming an outright disaster at some immigration offices. As soon as you have not been “at home” for a while and have been reported elsewhere (on arrival at the airport or a hotel or guesthouse), you are expected to submit a TM 24 within 30 hours. Landlords often refuse and the burden and therefore also the fine is placed with the tenant (farang). More and more offices are now suddenly applying this old rule and extending the stay is even refused at some offices because they "have not complied with the rules". In Bangkok, extra counters have even been opened to handle the TM 30 and to collect the fines (B 800 per time). It is becoming ridiculous that guests / tourists / pensioners / long stayers have been declared a 'controlled group'.
Address reporting upon arrival on the TM 6 and also the 90-day reports and, where appropriate, the annual extension of the stay are apparently not sufficient to 'check' the farang. So I added a TM 30 to keep an eye on the dangerous farang, at least that's the feeling I get from it. Slightly exaggerated I know, but it's starting to look quite similar in some regions and at some immigration offices. Others may, and hopefully, have different experiences, but the whole TM 30 thing is just about at the top of the most talked about issues on various forums right now.
It would be to the ambassadors' credit to carefully address this state of affairs. Thailand is already losing a lot of tourists at the moment because of the unfavorable exchange rate, and for many the TM 30 event and the financial procedure for extending long stays is reason enough to look elsewhere. Personally, I am considering taking a different look at my journey / stay to and in Thailand. To have to go to immigration all the time because you've been away for a while (at home or abroad) I don't feel anything for that anymore. The online reports often don't work, and reports by mail are often refused or don't always go well, so you have to go halfway across the city and then get back in line. I hate to be treated like this, I don't really feel welcome anymore.
Have you ever studied the rules that a Thai must meet to be allowed to stay in our country for 3 months, let alone longer. If you know that, I think the words don't feel welcome take on a completely different dimension.
Thank you for your message, looking forward to the results.
Don't think that wayward Thailand will care if the EU states take this up together.
A country can determine its own laws, and this TM30 nonsense is intended to apprehend or discourage criminals hiding in Thailand and overstayers from coming to Thailand, that the majority of 99.999% of the ordinary people here victim of is not allowed to spoil the fun.
In the Netherlands, too, some parties say that we have to surrender privacy to create security, but the chance that you as a reader on this blog will ever become the victim of a terrorist act is smaller than winning the main prize in the state lottery, then there are there are other issues that deserve attention, such as cancer, the greatest threat that exists today.
In Thailand and many other countries (including the Netherlands) it is simply about gathering knowledge and putting it into the computer, because knowledge is power, and that is how we are all screwed over.
Many governments are not happy with the arrival of the internet, because what they have been able to keep hidden for decades is now all coming into the public eye…..that annoying bastard….new and stricter rules just have to be devised!!!
I have never felt threatened by foreign criminals in Thailand, because I don't know any criminals, I don't have any problems with overstayers, I happen to know one of them, great guy who doesn't bother anyone.
I feel a lot safer now.
Greetings khunKarel
Why does the ambassador go to the well-known hotspots again and not to Isaan or the other side towards Rayong, etc. or is this not recommended by the NVT.
It is remarkable that, apart from the French, none of the EU colleagues had heard anything about the TM30 issue, while this has been the most discussed topic in various social media for months. Shows how far embassies are from their fellow citizens.
So kudos to Kees Rade for wanting to discuss this.
The reason for the tribute eludes me.
Chris,
The fact that our ambassador wants to draw attention to this issue, while his colleagues had not even heard of it, I find it special in itself.
I myself have a PR and nothing to do with immigration as long as I stay in Thailand, but the constant reporting obligations is certainly a thorn in the side of many. And the fact that the various immigration offices also give their own interpretation to the rules does not make it any easier for the foreigner who has to arrange his stay himself.
I am often very critical, especially when it comes to my former employer. That does not alter the fact that I can also express positive criticism, where it is due.
If I read the posting correctly, the French ambassador brought the TM30 into trouble in the meeting; and none of the other colleagues, not even the Dutch ambassador, knew anything about this.
quote:
“None of the other colleagues had heard similar noises. Since then, however, we have also received signals from various sides that the situation is in any case opaque.”
I don't have a problem with notifications. What I do have difficulty with is having to do the same thing several times, in other words, people could already know where I am if they linked certain systems and the virtual lack of technological notifications (computer, mobile phone, apps). Many stores, Facebook etc know exactly where I am based on my phone number. And Prayut has that number too (about 100 times over the last 10 years). What makes me angry is expats being fined for not providing forms for the home or condo owner to fill out. Only in a limited number of cases is the expat the owner of the house or condo.
Chris,
Petervz is – in his own words – a former embassy employee. I therefore assume that he knows how the hares run in those circles. So I take his last sentence as inspired by the idea that you catch more flies with honey.
What surprised me in this blog was that the ambassador indicates that it is quite quiet times at the embassy.
Why then is the first possible date for an appointment at the embassy now at least 5 weeks in the future instead of the prescribed 2 weeks? It was even 7 weeks in mid-June! Try it yourself:
https://www.vfsvisaonline.com/Netherlands-Global-Online-Appointment_Zone1/AppScheduling/AppSchedulingInterviewDate.aspx
In my opinion, this indicates a structural understaffing of the embassy. Perhaps the ambassador can raise this with his employer, arguing that this means that the 2 weeks rule they have drawn up themselves is being violated by a factor of 3(!).
Regarding the TM30 message:
What we as foreigners (short and long stayers) could do is flood the local immigration office with TM30 notifications by going to the immigration office every 2-3 days and saying you have come back from a 25 hour trip to another province . The fact that your stay in another province has not been reported is due to the accommodation provider there.
Sorry, the link should be:
https://www.vfsvisaonline.com/Netherlands-Global-Online-Appointment_Zone1/AppScheduling/AppWelcome.aspx?P=Tg%2FSYPsRqwADJwz8N7fAvPi9V%2BRk9FnxfVU9W%2BoA82Q%3D
Dear TheoB,
I remember petervz from the time he worked at the embassy. But with him I find it remarkable that the TM30 vicissitudes are not observed at the embassy. People are apparently asleep or have little regard for the interests of 'ordinary' expats in this country. I've noticed the latter before.
At the beginning of July I wanted to make an appointment at the embassy for a Schengen visa for my wife. The first possible date was August 31, two weeks before we planned to go. If it is already cucumber time at the embassy, this is a sign that people no longer like to serve the Dutch with the Schengen visa and everyone should go to VFS Global.
I work here and I have other things to do than deal with a TM30 form that also has to be completed not by me but by the owner of my condo.
The fact that the embassy is thinly staffed and does not scale up during foreseeable peak periods has often come up on TB. For example, the embassy should enable people to visit the embassy within 2 weeks for a visa, and should take into account peak and off-peak seasons. That doesn't seem to happen... full = full. This means that the embassy is in violation of the Visa Code. But few will dispute that.
And so from 2020, when the new Visa Code comes into effect, they no longer have to help you at the embassy within 2 weeks. The embassy is only available for special categories of visa holders. Ordinary applicants are then obliged to go to VFS. The service costs that VFS charges may be paid by the applicant.
It seems strange to me to have to pay for a (then) mandatory service. It would make sense for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to pay the service costs. But how does such a third party with a profit motive work cheaper than the Ministry of Foreign Affairs? The Ministry of Foreign Affairs cannot make a contribution without passing the burden on the citizens. And because The Hague is closing the money tap, the extra costs end up with the people. Save by putting the bill elsewhere.
Dear Rob,
It also encourages 'corruption' in a country like Thailand. I assume that the embassy concludes a contract with VFS Global about the amount of costs that can be charged to the Dutchman. But what if VFS Global asks 25 or 35% more next year? People now have a monopoly position and the embassy is - it seems to me - unable or not planning to handle all Schengen visas itself again.
Too bad the immigration office is 2 hours away in my case (= 500 baht). I can try at the local police station but I suspect that will never make it into the system.