Blog Ambassador Kees Rade (14)
The Dutch Ambassador to Thailand, Kees Rade.
De Dutch ambassador in thailand, Keith Rade, writes a monthly blog for the Dutch community, in which he outlines what he has been doing in the past month.
Dear compatriots,
First of all, of course, to all of you, on behalf of the entire staff of the embassy, the very best wishes for a prosperous and above all healthy 2020! The smoke from the fireworks has blown away, traffic in Bangkok is starting to get busy again, time to start the new year.
The theme of human rights emerged in various forms during the last month of last year.
On 10 December, UN International Human Rights Day, we had a meeting at the residence with a number of like-minded embassies, the main UN human rights organizations and some NGOs to discuss the subject of enforced disappearances. In recent years, there have been some high-profile cases in the region of opponents of the incumbent government, sometimes kidnapped in broad daylight and never heard from again. A famous case is that of the Laotian activist Sombath Somphone, who was kidnapped in Vientiane in 2012 and has never been found. For some time now, it has also been a regular occurrence that political refugees who had fled to a neighboring country are forcibly returned to the country from which they had fled, ignoring the applicable procedures. Sometimes an even more drastic fate befalls them. In order to have a better understanding of the international legal aspects of such cases, it was useful for the ambassadors present to hear from the UN side which international obligations the countries in the region have to comply with.
That same evening, together with the director of the new River Museum on the eighth floor of IconSiam, we performed the opening of the World Press Photo exhibition. For the Netherlands, this exhibition is always a great way to illustrate the importance of freedom of expression worldwide, in this case through visual material. As usual, this exhibition once again had some heartbreaking photos of the many dramas that humanity is facing worldwide, or worse, that humanity is inflicting on itself. From natural disasters to wars, from violence against migrants to climate victims, it splashed off the wall again in many shapes and colors. Fortunately, very nice themes were also recorded, such as the flamingo Bob, who flew into a hotel window in Curaçao, was cared for in a shelter and has since become the symbol of that center. A beautiful rosy story. You can view the exhibition until this Sunday, highly recommended!
A day later, at their request, the EU ambassadors had a meeting with the members of the parliamentary committee on legal affairs, human rights and justice. This meeting took place in a very lively parliament building, it was remarkable to see how many people crowded the corridors of the almost completed building. The purpose of this conversation was to share some important topics of the EU human rights agenda with the members of the committee, such as the aforementioned enforced disappearances, human rights in the private sector, LGBTI rights and the death penalty. It was also intended to show that the EU would like to work with these elected parliamentarians, as a symbol of a (more or less) return to democracy in Thailand.
It was once again a pleasure to talk to all kinds of compatriots about what concerns them during a lively BBB (bitterballen drink) in Phuket, as always well organized by our Honorary Consul Seven Smulders. High on the agenda is clearly the obligation that Thailand has recently imposed on a certain group of foreigners to take out health insurance with a Thai insurer. A difficult task, especially for compatriots of an advanced age. This has been discussed in the consular EU consultation. It has been agreed that this will be discussed with the Thai immigration services. In the absence of a satisfactory solution, possible next steps will be discussed by the EU ambassadors.
As one of my last activities of this year, I had the honor to witness the “Royal Barge” ceremony on December 12th. The final part of HM King Rama X's coronation ceremony consisted of a cruise of 52 boats manned by more than 2000 rowers down part of the Chao Praya. A special experience, full of splendor and splendour, a beautiful crowning of a historic coronation process!
Regards,
Keith Rade
Democracy returned? The ambassador immediately starts the new year with a good, painful joke. 555 It is good that the embassies continue to insist on human rights and investigations into the disappearances, assaults and other abuses. Go on with that, good. I would also like to wish you all the best and good results for this year.
Speaking of jokes: last week there was an episode of In Europe: Putin's doll. With the central question 'What will it do to a democracy if you can no longer laugh at those in power?' . I immediately thought of Thailand, where jokes and satire about certain high people are also asking for trouble.
https://www.npostart.nl/in-europa-de-geschiedenis-op-heterdaad-betrapt/29-12-2019/VPWON_1272536
Read carefully what it says: “(more or less) returned democracy in Thailand.”
In diplomatic language, this is a serious criticism of the armed peace enforced by the greencoats, with and without civilian suits.
I find the insight that Mr Ambassador gives into his working world always worth reading. He practices the art of the achievable. In my opinion, he does that more than decently.
Did Mr Rade get nothing at all from the comments last month, which made it clear that many thought that he tells a lot of irrelevant things and leaves many relevant things unexposed. Sufficient examples have been given and the opinions do not lie. There was widespread agreement with the outspoken criticism.
Would thailandblog like to bring these comments and their appreciation to his attention and ask him for a response.
.
I can tell you, according to many, that they will not have a nice and good 20202, as they are forced to return to their homeland again! And had to abandon everything, given the terribly high Thai Bath' These people are now lonely in the Euro countries! At an old age, where some have nothing left! The future is and remains uncertain for the residents who come from the Euro countries! People are always coming up with new laws and rules? and it seems as if we are being bullied out of here by emigration” So your optimism is in the wrong place! You are a representative of the Dutch state and should assist your subjects in difficult times! But there's nothing to read about that?
A very concerned Thailand resident”
In all fairness despite your anger.
Surely the conditions for obtaining residence must be determined by the relevant government?
My wife and child are also not allowed to live in NL immediately if I get kicked out here, but everything in the big picture.
Rules are rules to which that wonderful democracy has also contributed.
In any case, be glad that you are not now in a gray, gray and cold country also known as the narco-state of the EU. Letter bombs, threats to angry food producers, violence against aid workers, 77 million euros of polluting mess that does not make life more enjoyable for people, animals and the air, 15 million euros in damage due to a night of "partying". It could be even crazier as the news reports, but apparently things are still going fantastic there.
The grass is always greener on the other side, but look at it positively. Well, the Euro is going to be difficult now, so I suggest that they finally take care of spending in that area so that there is inflation. EU citizens themselves do not understand that they are victims of not spending money. There should be a campaign for that.
@Pieter, the former is correct, the latter is incorrect.
Attention is being paid to it, there is something to read about it, in the diplomatic circuit it all works just a bit differently.
Jackie,
In a few years, given the damn high Thai Bath and the rising price increases, living here in Thailand has become more expensive than in the Netherlands. Even the population complains a lot, and sees their income evaporate, given the restaurants and hotels etc etc remain empty. The elderly must take out health insurance, with the knowledge that no company will accept them! at an old age' This is common knowledge, and the annual premiums have therefore become a cash cow. I know hardly anyone in my immediate environment who has health insurance, let alone can afford it.' The Ambassador would have done well to spend a few words on this! They are also aware that many had to abandon everything because they no longer have financial resources! And are forced to leave Thailand 'sometimes with a family or children and all their possessions, which they have built up here, after their emigration to enjoy their old age'. Many expats have gotten into trouble because of that to keep the damned Bath artificially high, so that the elite can become very rich for a while! Not understanding that the trade chooses another country where they still get value for their money! And we know... gone... always gone!! So the sale of rice, oil, and other Thai products has become unsellable. Even Japanese multinationals choose another destination because of the expensive Thai Bath and never return! So Thailand can prepare for bad times in the near future! We have seen that many holidaymakers choose another country and leave the land of smiles behind because the neighboring countries are much cheaper! The same goes for the traders who do not want to pay the top price for Thai goods. The Ambassador would have liked to mention this difficult subject in his New Year's sermon. That there are also many victims who have no good prospects at all!! And that the future will look dark, as far as the elderly old people who still live here are concerned and are victims of wrong decisions from higher up.
Dear Ambassador,
In your blog of January 3, 2020 you say: “It was once again a pleasure to talk to all kinds of compatriots about what concerns them during a lively BBB (bitterballen drink) in Phuket, as always well organized by our Honorary Consul Seven Smulders.
High on the agenda is clearly the obligation that Thailand has recently imposed on a certain group of foreigners to take out health insurance with a Thai insurer. A difficult task, especially for compatriots of an advanced age. This has been discussed in the consular EU consultation. It has been agreed that this will be discussed with the Thai immigration services. In the absence of a satisfactory solution, possible next steps will be discussed by the EU ambassadors.
I would very much like to see you keep us informed about the further course of this matter via Thailandblog, incidentally, I would not expect otherwise.
Last month I indicated in a response to Thailandblog that this is certainly not an attempt to interfere with internal Thai affairs, on the contrary. After all, this is an issue that is caused by Thailand and in which foreigners in Thailand become victims, so it is certainly a subject for you as Ambassador. It is great to hear that you and your colleagues have taken this up and that attention has been paid to it. It is at least as important that in the absence of a satisfactory solution, possible next steps will be discussed by the EU ambassadors.
If you want to know what this is all about, I am prepared to come to your Embassy and, if necessary, explain the content of the problem and also propose various solutions for solving the problems for Thailand in this issue without it being necessary to inflict great damage and suffering on the said group of foreigners.
A few arguments that serious and painful damage is being done here by Thailand:
People have emigrated to Thailand because they made that choice for all kinds of reasons, one of which is that they counted on the opportunities offered in Thailand, such as being able to enjoy a carefree, peaceful old age, but it is important that there are no new rules during the match is introduced by the all-powerful referees without a transition period being given and without respecting existing situations, something that has happened before. The latter has not happened, and it is causing people great problems. They live here permanently, have a home and hearth here, and you are almost literally thrown out of the country.
What's the case? As you say, this concerns a certain group of foreigners, which means that discrimination is already being wrongly done. This group once applied for an OA visa as a Visa at a Thai Embassy in their country of residence or the country where they were registered as a resident. That Visa was special, you had to have, among other things, an extra doctor's statement that you were healthy and also did not have certain diseases. You also had to submit a statement that you had no criminal history and so more conditions. In practice, this Visa gave you a Residence Permit for 1 year, which was easy to extend by almost 1 year. It was called the Golden Visa as this Visa gave you the most Starting Space.
Now it has been brutally introduced on October 31, 2019 that anyone who ever entered Thailand with a Visa OA must be able to show a statement of having health insurance with a number of fixed permitted Thai insurance companies. The premiums are extraordinarily high and the sums insured are low. With this new requirement, Thailand aims to prevent unpaid bills from being left behind by sick caregivers caused by foreigners, one speaks of 600 million Bath.
Given the quality of these insurances, having these policies will not solve the problem, it would be better to ask every tourist or Thailand entering and / or departing a simple contribution of 20 Bath; more than 30 million tourists, problem solved, or simply, no more extension of a period of stay or treatment of illness if someone wants to leave an unpaid bill. There are people who do not have insurance, that is quite possible, they apparently have enough reserves to pay for the health care costs themselves. Thailand could also make Thai health insurance available to the foreigner, but not with 30 baht per act, but at a reasonable premium. There is more to think of, each starting point requires separate conditions. For example, Thailand could require every entry to take out limited travel insurance upon entry.
The fact that Thailand only makes this new requirement for people who have an OA Visa and extend it on the basis of retirement makes one think, why is that? OA Visa based on Marriage do not need to present a policy! That this new requirement is imposed on new applications at Thai Embassies abroad, Thailand is allowed to do that, new cases fall under new rules, but beware, with respect for the old agreements, so whoever has an OA Visa before October 31, 2019 If you cannot ask for a health care policy, this problem will solve itself over the years.
At the time, due to hassle with health insurance policies in Spain, State Secretary Hogervorst decided to keep a category of Dutch people outside the compulsory health insurance policy, a very debatable regulation, but members of our Parliament have no desire to go into that. Completely wrong of course, after all I paid my premium for the compulsory health insurance policy just like everyone else. Using health care was not an issue, the age was still young, relatively low health care costs, still not now, luck, but why not maintain the collective of such a policy, that would be very reasonable, but well, Thailand has decided to require an additional policy with a Thai insurer, see above; extremely unwise if you want to continue to generate income.
Yesterday's Thailand blog contains a lot of reactions from people who leave Thailand, too bad, I see every foreigner who lives permanently in Thailand as a 24/7 tourist, who spends many times more than a tourist, namely on home, garden, kitchen, food, drinks, car, tax and whatnot.
Then Thailand also decided in 2019 to extend the amounts to be held in a bank account and to keep part permanently in the bank account.
2-3 months before the application for an extension 800.000 Bath in a bank account, 3 months after the extension obtained, that 800.000 must remain in the bank account and then it may be 6 months 400.000 Bath until again 3 months before the day of renewal. The settlement was 800.000 Bath minimum 3 months in the bank account prior to the time of renewal application. For a large number of people, this is a short-term increase in the blocked amount, which now also includes a permanent part.
I would like to ask every Thailand reader to add your many arguments, do not deviate from the main point, no personal complaints, but personal consequences if you feel that need, I am curious whether Thailandblog will post this plea.
Best wishes to everyone for the year 2020.
There are a number of weaknesses in your argument.
You are in fact asking for a special arrangement for Dutch expats in Thailand, because the Dutch embassy has no input about expats from other countries.
And then you expect that the Thai government is very keen to set up a special Dutch expat arrangement, which then does not apply to other countries.
The health insurance scheme in the Netherlands is subject to all kinds of conditions, which the insurers also have a say in.
They probably don't feel like drawing up a special policy for one and a half expats abroad – any foreign country, because then you're not just talking about Thailand.
Handling it probably costs a fortune, because that policy must also be there for that one Dutchman in Timbuktograd.
You must then treat all Dutch people equally.
And each policy must be adapted to the laws of the country in question and short-circuited with the government of that country.
In the Netherlands, all kinds of strict conditions apply to such a policy.
If you want to go to the hospital, you must have a referral letter from a general practitioner.
The reality in Thailand is that everyone with insurance runs to the most expensive private hospital, because it costs nothing and you don't have to spend hours in a waiting room.
That probably costs the insurers a fortune and they will undoubtedly want to charge for it.
So you can forget about a policy of just over 100 euros per month.
Furthermore, it will undoubtedly become a basic policy without any extras.
But possibly it would become a policy with no more than access to a state hospital.
That would make it cheaper, but possibly still a lot more expensive due to the administrative costs, than the policy in the Netherlands.
As for respecting existing situations:
That is not a right anywhere.
According to this reasoning, a government could never increase the tax for an expat:
When I came to live here, I paid 10% and now I have to pay 15%, which is not allowed.
People who are unable to afford those 3 months extra 400.000 Baht will probably never be saved.
They will undoubtedly run into problems due to price increases in the future.
I will not go into the OA, because there is a lot of confusion about it, to which I will not add my bit.
@Ruud
Ruud, I will respond to your response, I will not go into all sorts of details that are not relevant here.
*There are a number of weaknesses in your argument.
Response: Perhaps you can helpfully supplement as requested.
* You are in fact requesting a special arrangement for Dutch expats in Thailand, because the Dutch embassy has no input about expats from other countries.
And then you expect that the Thai government is very keen to set up a special Dutch expat arrangement, which then does not apply to other countries.
Response: No, the Thai Immigration authorities are spoken to by several Ambassadors and then again with each other.
* The health insurance scheme in the Netherlands is subject to all kinds of conditions, which the insurers also have a say in.
They probably don't feel like drawing up a special policy for one and a half expats abroad – any foreign country, because then you're not just talking about Thailand.
Handling it probably costs a fortune, because that policy must also be there for that one Dutchman in Timbuktograd.
You must then treat all Dutch people equally.
And each policy must be adapted to the laws of the country in question and short-circuited with the government of that country.
Response: There are a few more Dutch people living abroad than one and a half expats, the basic policy is the same for everyone and is not taken out per country of residence.
*In the Netherlands, all kinds of strict conditions apply to such a policy.
If you want to go to the hospital, you must have a referral letter from a general practitioner.
The reality in Thailand is that everyone with insurance runs to the most expensive private hospital, because it costs nothing and you don't have to spend hours in a waiting room.
That probably costs the insurers a fortune and they will undoubtedly want to charge for it.
So you can forget about a policy of just over 100 euros per month.
Furthermore, it will undoubtedly become a basic policy without any extras.
Response: The costs are paid from the basic policy up to the level of the costs in the Netherlands, there is no question of higher costs due to care received abroad.
*But possibly it would become a policy with no more than access to a state hospital.
That would make it cheaper, but possibly still a lot more expensive due to the administrative costs, than the policy in the Netherlands.
Response: Access to a state hospital could be a huge improvement.
*As for respecting existing situations:
That is not a right anywhere.
According to this reasoning, a government could never increase the tax for an expat:
When I came to live here, I paid 10% and now I have to pay 15%, which is not allowed.
Response: When considering emigrating to Thailand, it was taken into account that Thailand aroused the expectation to respect existing situations with regard to conditions in the area of Visa, for example, is there still a group of people who meet the requirement with an income of 20.000 Baht, where that is now 40.000.
*People who are unable to afford those 3 months extra 400.000 Baht will probably never be saved.
They will undoubtedly run into problems due to price increases in the future.
Response: That is more than 12.000 euros, for someone with only Aow a sometimes insurmountable amount in such a short period of time. With sufficient inflation correction, this should not necessarily lead to problems, but currency exchange rate problems, which is also the case now.
*I will not go into the OA, because there is a lot of confusion about it, to which I will not add my bit.
Response: Too bad, is there still confusion? Maybe now is the time to put it on the table, then the Ambassador can also try to get clarity about it and involve it in the discussions.
Short comment, but I'm not going to comment again, and probably won't be allowed to.
Response: Perhaps you can helpfully supplement as requested.
It seems to me that pointing out weaknesses is a useful addition.
Response: No, the Thai Immigration authorities are spoken to by several Ambassadors and then again with each other.
1 ambassador, or a number of ambassadors will not make much difference for Thailand.
Thailand cannot implement an immigration policy, where all kinds of different rules exist for all kinds of countries.
There are now also exceptions, but they are limited in number.
Response: There are a few more Dutch people living abroad than one and a half expats, the basic policy is the same for everyone and is not taken out per country of residence.
I was talking about countries where hardly any, if any, Dutch people live.
You have to be able to offer a policy for that, and that applies to every insurer.
If the basic policy is the same for everyone, does that mean that you will pay for the expats who stay in the very expensive American hospitals?
Furthermore, it will have to be specified which care is reimbursed in which country, not every type of care is available in every country.
The provision of care is already problematic in the Netherlands.
Response: The costs are paid from the basic policy up to the level of the costs in the Netherlands, there is no question of higher costs due to care received abroad.
The higher costs arise because the GP's paw guard function does not exist and it is easier to run to a private hospital.
The question is, of course, whether the private hospitals are prepared to accept the money that the Dutch insurer is willing to pay.
If they think that's too little, and you can't make up for it yourself, chances are they'll send you to a state hospital.
And of course there are higher costs, the administration of the expats will already cost a fortune.
Hopefully you don't expect the people in the Netherlands to contribute to this, do you?
Response: Access to a state hospital could be a huge improvement.
That depends on the price tag of the basic policy, which would probably be much higher than you think/hope.
Response: When considering emigrating to Thailand, it was taken into account that Thailand aroused the expectation to respect existing situations with regard to conditions in the area of Visa, for example, is there still a group of people who meet the requirement with an income of 20.000 Baht, where that is now 40.000.
I think there are few expats for whom this has been a point of consideration.
At least I didn't know this when I emigrated.
I have only looked at my own situation and have assumed that costs do not stay the same forever.
And what if Thailand significantly increases the costs of the annual renewal, because that is probably allowed?
Response: That is more than 12.000 euros, for someone with only Aow a sometimes insurmountable amount in such a short period of time. With sufficient inflation correction, this should not necessarily lead to problems, but currency exchange rate problems, which is also the case now.
That's exactly what I claim.
AOW alone is not a basis for emigration.
A Dutch inflation correction also goes wrong, because prices in Thailand are rising faster than in the Netherlands.
And you don't care much about currency exchange rates.
If Thailand seriously tried to manipulate it, it would be immediately punished by the speculators.
They have already experienced that once in Thailand.
Response: Too bad, is there still confusion? Maybe now is the time to put it on the table, then the Ambassador can also try to get clarity about it and involve it in the discussions.
As long as there are still conflicting opinions on the forums, there is apparently confusion.
At my next 90-day registration, I will ask which visa my extension is based on and whether I need to do anything.
Dear Sjaakie, read your contribution with interest. There will undoubtedly be points that should be able to be done differently, but no matter how positively you mean it, there will always be those undoubtedly very highly educated and wealthy Dutch people here in Thailand who will knock you down. They are and will remain Dutch for once.
@Dear Willem, keep that anyway. My response is primarily intended for the Ambassador in the hope that it will be of use to him, I would like to see others supplement where useful. expecting the mower doesn't matter.
I understand the 800.000 baht scheme in Thailand. If you want to live in Thailand at state pension age and you have not even been able to arrange 800.000 baht in your long life that you can put in an account, then you have not done something quite right. Thailand sees that you have nothing to spend, so what good is it for you. I see a lot of old men hanging out in the Tesco Lotus. I don't understand what the fun is in living in Thailand like that, and in terms of spending, ask yourself “what does Thailand mean to you financially”.
Maybe it's a little short on the curve Louis.
Unmarried you must have 800.000 baht and married half. An unmarried Thai with 20.000 baht can live reasonably well, but with 40.000 baht for a state pensioner it is not enough.
There is a certain unfairness in that. For the unmarried foreigner to make it difficult and for the married to a Thai a kind of reward with lighter demands.
The insurance resembles a handshake with the insurers and is then again partly deductible from the tax.
As a government, I can also imagine that you do not want to bear the medical costs for all non-working foreigners aged 65+.
Old, sick, weak or nauseous then go to Thailand because life is still affordable there or carefree could be the result.