TB Immigration Infobrief 009/19 – Report Immigration Chumphon – Year extension with combination method.
Chumphon Immigration Report by Lung Addie
We are writing Feb 13, 2019. It concerns a year extension by using the combination method (income + bank amount) and this just before the new regulations take effect on March 1, 2019 . The final allocation will take place in March 2019. So partly old regulations, partly new regulations.
Situation: – unmarried Dutch national (basic visa Non O with extension retirement)
– using visa support letter + bank statement
Lung Addie accompanied the applicant to the Chumphon Immigration Office as a reporter, known to the office and also because of the potential for trouble. Lung Addie was not there to solve these problems, but to help with possible translations and especially to report on the progress.
The normally expected documents were presented: passport, visa support letter, bank statement dated 1 day old, bank book with the amount needed to supplement the income shortfall, bank book with daily transactions for living in Thailand, rental contract for address confirmation. So just about everything needed for the year extension.
Expected problems:
– as the bank amount was calculated fairly narrowly, a lower rate, as originally calculated, could lead to the combination of income + bank amount falling just below the requested amount of 800.000 Baht on an annual basis. However, a “middle rate” was used by immigration, not the highest, not the lowest. There was no problem.
– the account of the bank amount was accidentally decreased. This happened within three months before the application and the sum had therefore fallen below the required amount. This might cause problems. (Still the old regulations because it is not yet March 1.)
The unfortunate operation:
The applicant has two accounts with two different banks. He only uses an account for immigration and he normally does not arrive there. He uses the second account, with another bank, to receive his income and for daily use. Now, by accident, he used that “immigration account” with a withdrawal of 30.000THB. He immediately saw the mistake. Since he could not immediately transfer the 30.000THB back to that “immigration account”, he first transferred the 1THB to account two and then immediately transferred it to account 4. All this took barely XNUMX minutes.
Reaction Immigration upon presentation of evidence:
Since he uses the combination method, he had to provide not only a bank statement of the day, but also proof, month by month, that the amount had been outstanding for 3 months. (not really abnormal)
It did appear here that 30.000THB had been taken in a certain month, which meant that he was briefly below the required amount, but also that he had immediately repaid it. A written proof from the bank had to be added, just the transaction in the bank book was not enough.
Also, with the support letter, a bank proof had to be provided that during the last 3 months a pension (or AOW) was indeed transferred from the Netherlands to the bank in Thailand.
A plan also had to be made about how to find the applicant's place of residence.
Payment: 1900THB
So, in fact, nothing extraordinary or insurmountable has been requested. Everything was done in a very friendly and very helpful atmosphere. It was even said where the nearest branches of the banks, where supplementary documents could be collected, could be found. Immigration even called the bank office to tell them what documents they needed + provided a sample letter. Especially in view of that unfortunate transaction. So no complaints about all this.
End result:
Everything was accepted, even the unfortunate withdrawal of money, and a 1 month “in consideration” stamp placed in the passport.
If we can't call this a really perfect treatment then I don't know what will. Positive things MUST also be mentioned.
Report : Lung Addie.
Subject : Immigration Chumphon
Reaction RonnyLatYa
– As for that unfortunate decrease. Most immigration offices won't make a problem of it. Mistakes can happen and if the money was quickly returned to the same account, people will normally not say much about it. Maybe just a warning. If it remains absent from the account for a longer period of time, you can expect problems in every office. But of course it all depends on how the relevant immigration officer feels about it. In this report it is clear that the immigration officer has dealt with it very understandingly. Good.
– Apparently, in addition to the visa support letter, Chumphon also has to prove that the amount is effectively transferred monthly. That is not according to the official regulations if a visa support letter is used. The visa support letter is just there to replace those deposits and prove that you have a certain income.
But I know some immigration offices ask for both (proof of income and an actual deposit). These are local rules that everyone should be personally aware of.
Like Lung Addie, I also believe that positive stories should also be reported.
I hope for a small update of the report when he goes to collect his final annual extension. Did immigration come to visit him to determine his actual residence, were any additional questions asked, what proof did he have to present when collecting his annual extension, new guidelines for the future, etc.
Thank you in advance for this report.
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And you apparently think this is a simple story? I think this is a very complex story. A story that will get many people in other offices into serious trouble. I have very strong doubts that immigration will call a bank branch?? I am 100% sure this will never happen in most immigration offices.
How many days have you been working on that?
And it is also the first time I hear that there must be proof that your pension is transferred to the Thai account? I heard proof of income would suffice?
I will ask for my new OA visa back in Belgium next time. Seems to me to be simpler.
Dear Fred,
I assume you are not permanently resident in Thailand. If you would stay permanently in Thailand and you have the option of having your Visa extended on the spot, I think you will not pay a return ticket, fly to Belgium for a while, before having your Visa OA renewed. If, of course, you don't have to look at 700 euros to fly there and back from Thailand to Belgium, that's very good for you, but many pensioners are not all lucky enough to receive a large pension from the Belgian state and are therefore satisfied that they can extend their Visa in Thailand. Making a little effort to collect all the evidence makes a BIG difference for many retirees compared to buying a return ticket of +- 700 euros, for a Visa to extend.!
Herman, the 'visa extension' as you call it - but where you mean the 'retirement extension' or the 'marriage attention', you can only get it in Thailand, so buying a return ticket to your original home country for that purpose doesn't seem to me wise………..
I suspect he means that it is easier and cheaper to get a one-year extension of his current period of stay than to fly to Belgium for a new Non-immigrant OA Multiple entry visa. He must indeed fly to Belgium for the latter visa.
From March 1, your pension must be transferred to your Thai bank account every month. I just don't feel like it. That transfer also costs money and you have to settle for the exchange rate of the day.
Furthermore, I don't feel like putting 800.000 Baht in an account where you are no longer allowed to touch.
So in my case an extension is no longer possible in Thailand
You say it wrong. It is possible, but you don't want it. The visa support letter still applies to Dutch and Belgian citizens. So no problem in that regard.
Where does that information come from, that from March 1, you must transfer your pension monthly to a Thai bank account? In any case, not from the information we get from Ronny LatYa, which is always very reliable. This arrangement and additional option only applies to the few countries whose embassies no longer issue an income statement, and the Netherlands and Belgium are not included. For the Netherlands, the 'visa support letter' and for Belgium even the affidavit is still accepted. There have been no reports anywhere that this would no longer apply to these people, not even after March 1.
The fact that someone does not feel like paying his pension into a Thai account every month or parking 800.000THB in a Thai account is his full right. But these are not the only conditions or options for obtaining an annual extension. There is still the option to meet the conditions for a one-year extension using the support letter (Dutch) or the affidavit (BE) OR even a combination of the two, income + bank receipt.
Where does that information come from? This may be concluded on the basis of the following in your report: 'In addition, with the letter of support, a bank proof had to be provided that during the last 3 months a pension (or AOW) was indeed transferred from the Netherlands to the bank in Thailand'.
Nonsense, you can use the visa support letter just like before.
Only 1 thing has changed for Belgians and Dutch people: in addition to visa support letter (if residence based on income) you can now also use monthly transfer (if your immigration office accepts this).
Also here in Buriram it is generally not a problem. In addition to the income support letter (nice scrable word), proof is requested that money is actually transferred from the Netherlands.
Also with the “in consideration” stamp, no problem is to be expected if everything is in order. I was asked some questions, including how long have you lived in Thailand, etc. However, everything is very correct. A photo was also taken of us with an immigration officer in front of our house.
Immigration also works smoothly and correctly with the normal extension.
This immigration office is very wrong with asking for proof that the income stated on the visa support letter was actually transferred to a Thai bank. This touches the essence of that income statement, in fact it completely renders that letter inoperative.
It's very simple, who's boss decides what happens. Whether you like it or not. Other than that I personally have no problem with it.
Dear Fred,
I did not call this a 'simple story'. Since it was not 'simple', it was worth reporting it to the readers of the blog.
The situation here at Chumphon Immigration cannot be compared to most other offices. Here are, figure of the immigration itself, 15 (yes FIFTEEN) foreigners with a year extension. When I enter I am immediately addressed by my first name. And yes, they are very helpful here. The whole thing took:
- concerned person picked up at home by Lung addie at 10.30
-arrival Immigration 10.45
-bank branch for additional proof barely 5km away and they knew, because of the sample copy and the phone call, what we came for
-because of the lunch break we went to eat something ourselves.
-13.15 back at immigration
-14.00 we were already on our way home with the stamp 'in consideration' and we went for a cool pint
So it didn't take days.
PS. that proof of transfer was only from the last 3 months.
Simpler in Belgium??? Is quite possible.
Proof of bank transfer of the last 3 months? What that means is still a mystery to me. By the way, I have never heard it said that for an income statement one must prove that that income is deposited into a Thai bank account? Let's be honest this is anything but a positive story. And strange but true, but I have never heard a phone ring anywhere in Thailand. Not in a bank branch nor in an immigration office.
My first year extension I had 800.000 in the bank for a few months, after getting the bank letter that the money had indeed been there for two months, I secured the money for 11 months. But that was not accepted because it was a new bill. It was of course only an administrative act, the money has not left the bank.
Fortunately I had another account that had already had enough for a few months, so I returned the next day with a new bank letter from my other account.
I just applied for new visa Feb 20th soi 5 Jomtien.
I had all the necessary papers with me, yes, an extra copy of a page of the passport had to be made, but they did that quickly themselves.
I also had a letter from the bank stating 800 k with a copy of the bank book. I had to sign a copy of the booklet and I received the letter from the bank back, not necessary. Someone before me didn't just have a copy of the bank book with balance, only he had to update the book.
However, I still have to sign 2 other papers, rules for visas and when you lose the right to a visa, as well as everything about overstay. They filled out the papers themselves and all I had to do was sign them. Asked for a copy, she gave me a questioning look, but got it after I paid.
Picked up passport the next day with new visa in it again. Can go 1 year ahead.
That's the first time I hear that for a ret. ext. is an under consideration stamp / period, I have already stamped my passport 6 times the day after, before even in the afternoon the same day
Is this also a novelty , ditto for that plan where living ?
I do know that that is how it is treated for married Thai lady, but now also for ret. ext. pension ?
I am dependent on Jomtien soi 5, I have never been asked, not even a TM30 as today with 90 day reporting, nor with my annual renewals before, (I don't even have a Tm 30 paper slip in my passport, but it has been the same for 8 years address, never done up to 30, have had my address for many years)
Dear David,
as we have known or should have known for a long time, it is 'same same but different' everywhere in Thailand. That is also the reason why Ronny wants to collect information from as many different Immi offices as possible. A stamp 'in consideration' is also only valid for 2 years here in Chumphon for 'unmarried people'. That was introduced when the old boss retired and a new boss came, different bosses, different laws. Yes, you have to go back to Immigration after a month… and then ???
There are still places in Thailand where people have never heard a telephone ring. There they still work with a tom-tam I suppose or else the one who wrote it is deaf… everything is possible in Thailand (TIT). Here in the South they have already discovered the telephone and just about everyone is walking around with the most modern Ipads, Smartphones… there is even Fiber internet…. apparently not yet in some places….
In any case, we should not lose sight of the fact that we are currently still in a transitional period and so it is not yet entirely clear to some immigration offices and staff how to apply the new rules, so they play it safe and sometimes ask for more than provided for in the legislation. Although I am very well known here at immigration, I will certainly not argue if they ask for a document that I know is not actually provided for in the legislation. Who am I to do that? I don't make the laws and rules here and don't forget the important sentence in immigration law: the immigration officer can always, if he wishes or deems it necessary, request additional documents…. So …. where do you stand ??? Usually, either across the street, there is a copy center somewhere where you can go… is that so bad?
And yes, I have been using a Fixed Deposit Account for years, on which no transaction has been made for years, except for the interest that is added, even one on a term of 2 years. No problem, they do ask me for a copy of my Saving Account to know what I live on. They get that and the amount there sometimes comes every 3-4 months, they don't care, they just want to see that I have income to live on and not work here. Is that in legislation? I don't know and don't ask them. and that way you have the least or no problems.
Perhaps all the people there in the South have a private smartphone, but I would be surprised if you also have their number. At immigration jomtien and that is not the smallest there is no fixed telephone.
Jomtien soi 5 made in September 2018 with everyone who came for ret. ext. first a TM30 message
and got a TM30 slip in the passport.
As a result, I had to have an extra copy of my address/passport made outside.
Then on to the extension.
Mahasarakham refuses the bank statement if it is 1 day old, it must be collected from the bank on the day of application.
Extension done at the end of January in Jomtien based on income.
Letter of Income Austrian Consulate.
Copy rental contract
Copy passport pages & TM6.
No TM30
Control officer + sign 2 documents, done in approx. 5 minutes and back outside with ticket to collect passport the next day + photo.
I think my 15th Extension, always went smoothly.
Hope for the same next year.
Voila, no TM30, just like me. I do note that Lambik has had extensions at Jomtien soi 15 for a long time (5), it may be due to the fact that you have been in the system for a long time, and possibly at the same address ,or some of us look more trustworthy…LOL ,
It will perhaps be a different experience in March due to renewal of 5-year driving licenses with address certificate application, but never asked before, nor necessary for opening a second bank account.
Lung Laddy and Fred, I think it is quite rude to question Lung Addy's and my story, we are not liars and just want to emphasize that the Immigration Office in Chumphon is very helpful and we find that very positive.