A Thai lady in Europe
Mention a number of reasons to go to Thailand and no doubt it will come culture in the queue ahead. Now you could classify the a go-go's and discos in Walking Street and the countless massage places under culture, but I am referring more to Thai history and Buddhist culture.
We view the many temples with sitting, reclining, golden, very high, very small, etc. Buddhas with our Western eyes, we admire the magnificent murals of Rama history in the Grand Palace, but how many of us understand the deeper meaning of all of this?
Dutch history
And vice versa? Of course you cannot explain to a Thai why we have a Catholic and a Protestant church in the Netherlands and that the Protestant church can also be divided into many groups. Just try to say something sensible about our 80-year war with Spain, the Relief of Leiden, the Victory of Alkmaar, it's all in vain. A Thai will listen to you with surprise and incomprehension if you explain our social system somewhat. Even talk about the Second World War and why we have / had something against Germans and a Thai looks at you with uncomprehending eyes.
London
I had known this for a long time, because once – in the seventies – I went to London with a Thai businessman. Made a tourist trip to the Tower between the companies, because that seemed interesting to him. I told him a bit about the history beforehand and when we got there he was unwilling to go in at all. With so many beheadings there must be countless ghosts around and a Thai hates that.
Visits to the Netherlands
Been to the Netherlands twice with my Thai wife. The first time obviously produces a culture shock, because how different the Netherlands is compared to Thailand. The beautiful road network, the neat traffic, the green grass, the beautiful houses yield many ah's and oh's. In my hometown of Alkmaar, the beautiful shopping streets were admired, although she looked with horror at the incredibly high prices for women's clothing, for example. She thought the Cheese Market was funny, but she can't get a piece of cheese down her throat. No, much more important was that there were 2 Thai restaurants in Alkmaar where she could speak Thai again and enjoy a Thai meal.
Amsterdam
A nice day (or two) to Amsterdam then. Strolling through the Kalverstraat, grabbing a terrace, a beer in a brown Jordanian pub, the flower market, a visit to the Heineken brewery, she really enjoyed it. No, not a visit to the Van Gogh Museum or the Rijksmuseum, because just talking about the Night Watch or Van Gogh, who cut off his ear, quickly leads to a yawn of boredom. Fortunately, she was also able to go to many Thai restaurants in Amsterdam to feel at home again.
Brussels
One of her ideas was to see the Eiffel Tower in Paris, so off you go. Spent a day in Brussels on the way there, because it also has a lot to offer for tourists. A delicious glass of Belgian beer on the Grote Markt and of course we have to see Manneken Pis. Now I had never seen that myself, although I have often been to Brussels, so it took some searching. When we found it, my wife burst into uncontrollable laughter. Will the whole world come to Brussels to see that statue of about 90 cm high? I took a picture of her with Manneken Pis, which is in our room. We can still laugh about it now and then, especially when we see the enlarged image at Patrick's in his Belgian restaurant in the Arcade on Second Road.
Paris
The Eiffel Tower is imposing, a walk on the Champs Elysee - with much higher prices for women's clothing - is nice, but apart from the traffic chaos at the Arc de Triomphe and the high prices in shops, restaurants and drinks on a terrace. We have not been to the Louvre and I have not told anything about Louis the Fourteenth or the French Revolution, for example, because she would look at me like a cow watching a train go by.
Barcelona
Just like in Paris, there are no Thai restaurants in Barcelona either. After a tour of the city with a short visit to the Gaudi Park (absolutely lost time) and a walk on the Ramblas, you want something to eat. So not Thai, then a Spanish paella, because that is also rice, isn't it? Whether it was her fault or the quality of the food, I don't know, but halfway through she hurried to the toilet to vomit up that red, sticky rice and prawns again. Going to sleep quickly after a glass of beer and the next day back to the Netherlands in a hurry, back to a Thai bite.
Volendam
The most beautiful day in the Netherlands was a visit to Volendam. Not so much Volendam itself, although of course a photo was taken in traditional costume and eel eaten, but the way back to Alkmaar. Instead of the normal major roads, I drove back along farm roads and villages. We stopped at a pasture with 100 cows, grazing in a green meadow. Really, we sat there in the grass for hours enjoying the beautiful and fat cows, of which many pictures were taken. At one point my wife sighed: Oh, if only my cows from Isan could spend a few days here on holiday!
Note: Previously posted in December 2010
There are of course also many Dutch people who know nothing about – and/or are not interested in – the Eighty Years' War, Leiden's Relief, the Victory of Alkmaar, Vincent van Gogh, the Rijksmuseum or the French Revolution, just to name a few historical facts and cultural highlights. In other words, let's not look down on those Thais who don't have that interest either.
Really fun .
I think I also have a little Thai blood .
W. Dry
In the beginning the culture shock seems to make it, but eventually most Thai women give up because of the cold, the food and especially because of the dullness, and return again.
Funny you say this Jack. Can you support that with facts, is it about the whole of Europe or just the Netherlands? Our experience is the opposite: most Thai women only want to go back to Thailand for vacation, it's too hot, the food is too bad, it's too boring and that eternal corruption is no longer acceptable if you're used to better in Europe.
Anyway, that's just our personal experience with about 20 Thai women who left for Europe.
Often don't think not wanting is confused with not being able to.
My personal experience is that they would like to go back, but often cannot for one reason or another. Usually it is about money (for the family) or that the man does not earn enough or has children that he does not want to leave behind.
My wife, son and daughter do not want to live in the Netherlands at all. Not interested at all in while, when they were little, I had them measure the Dutch nationality, you know Embassy and the whole thing. Ah well, I think the quality of life is better here anyway.
Nice story, but in Barcelona and especially Paris there are plenty of Thai restaurants… and delicious too….
Times change and the Thai conquer the world, almost without a fight.
Tripadvisor now lists 53 Thai restaurants in Barcelona and 367 in Paris.
In an earlier comment, Gringo admitted not really looking for it. And we can partly attribute it to the creative freedom of the author, where a nice piece takes precedence over the facts.
For example, you recently wrote something along the lines of that it is better not to tell the Thai about stories behind Christmas. Also a reaction that I assumed we shouldn't take 100% seriously (but did because I could respond nicely 555).
Gringo probably also knows that you can easily tell Thai guests about the various movements within Christianity, just as there are within Buddhism, among others. And that there are also plenty of Thais who are indeed interested in the history and stories here in Europe. But not everyone and not always. Many Europeans come to Thailand on holiday primarily to get a nice tan or enjoy the nightlife. They are not always looking forward to a cultural excursion with history. Time, place and person matter.
Yes they are death doers. For example, I like to dive into history myself, but not every day, even when I am in Thailans I have days when I prefer to just enjoy eating, drinking and relaxing. Otherwise it won't be much different. I know enough Thai people who are interested in European culture, history, etc, but not every day. I have made several trips with my own sweetheart. Wandering through cities, visiting museums, enjoying Dutch nature and occasionally elsewhere in Europe. Enjoying a meal and a beer together in Spain (Barcelona and Palma). Then I could also write that there was no Thai food to be found, although the truth would be that we did not look for it and did not need it.
Gringo, just a nice little story, although I hope the truth was a little less pale than you lead us to believe here.
It was not meant to be malicious, and yes, if someone else nuances his statements or poetic liberties, I can miss them.
Think of it as a cautious opposition to those who always condemn the use of the internet/mobile phone. It also has its advantages.
Furthermore, I don't think I ever claimed that you couldn't tell Thai people about other cultures and religion or that they wouldn't be interested in that, but I was just trying to point out that the language barrier is a damn hard hurdle to take seriously to get to that point. to have a conversation.
I myself am interested in the 'Thai Zwarte Piet', known in Thai from literature written by a king, I think, but when I ask about this here in Thailand exactly, the language problem is enormous, and even on the internet, where I can only find information in English, I don't get much wiser, because everyone writes something different, has extracted their own story from Thai with difficulty and if I have to interpret it without solid background knowledge, I become insecure, so I wait better times off.
So if you want to take a dip again, help me with that เงาะป่า
Better than catching each other flies, that's true.
@Frans, the story was written in 2010 and is about a journey that took place in 2005.
Can you perhaps indicate how many Thai restaurants there were in Paris at the time in the neighborhoods where many tourists come and can you also indicate how many Thai restaurants there were in Barcelona at the time in a radius of about 1000 meters around the Ramblas?
No idea, I think very little. That's why I say 'times are changing'. I in no way doubt your powers of observation at the time (not yet) and just wanted to point out that some things are changing drastically.
This is what you say, Gringo:
'And vice versa? Of course you cannot explain to a Thai why we have a Catholic and a Protestant church in the Netherlands and that the Protestant church can also be divided into many groups. Just try to say something sensible about our 80-year war with Spain, the Relief of Leiden, the Victory of Alkmaar, it's all in vain. A Thai will listen to you with surprise and incomprehension if you explain our social system somewhat. Even talk about the Second World War and why we have/had something against the Germans and a Thai will look at you with uncomprehending eyes.'
It's nice to tar all Thais over the same brush. So easy. My experiences are different. I visited the Netherlands with Thais a number of times and you could really explain a lot to them. And they were curious. They understood the 80-year war perfectly if you pointed out Siam's wars with Burma. So it is not the Thais' fault, but only and exclusively up to you.
Tino your reaction to Gringo is understandable but I think it has a lot to do with the level of the
Thai being judged. Everyone will agree that the level of education and development in Thailand leaves a lot to be desired. The individual cannot be blamed for this, but without getting lost in examples, this is unfortunately a fact.
I therefore strongly disagree with the last sentence where it is stated - in a more or less reproachful sense - that the author of the article is being blamed and not the Thai.
Dear Fred,
Gringo writes good stories. It is about the individual experiences he and his wife had in the Netherlands. I have no problem with that.
But then I find that there is nothing 'Thai' about it. All Thais are different, okay? And I dare say that many Dutch tourists, expats and retirees know just as little about Thailand's history and culture as many Thais know about Dutch (Western, European) history and culture.
It all has less to do with education than with interest, curiosity and the common desire for a better mutual understanding. That takes time and energy.
Sometimes I don't want to understand and I wonder, isn't someone here who went back to the Netherlands for the reason that his children don't get a good education here (or can get it but don't want to pay for it).
But yes it must be Typie's Dutch again who give a twist everywhere to get that right.
Tino,
You can express your opinion that is a good right only what annoys me is that you often attack a writer if you disagree, if there are people who contradict you you will come up with comments many will agree with me but that there are certainly just many or more who disagree with you probably does not occur to you.
Well, if you find the 'right' Thai, you can *keep* explaining it, then you don't need a group…
(And, yes, that was a joke.)
My experiences lie between the two extremes, where I personally have more with Tino's world of experience.
@Tino: why can't you just see this story – as RobV writes in a comment – as a nice story? Why do you have to pick out a specific point to give another nice sneer? How sad!
But now concretely: it is certainly not my intention to tar all Thais with the same brush, I know the differences. But still, a large part and I dare say the vast majority of the Thai population knows nothing about history in Europe and certainly not about the Netherlands. The Thais I know are generally less educated. So I don't move in those good circles, like you, where well-educated Thais would certainly be interested in Dutch history. You told them and they understood, they said. Tino, you know the Thais better than anyone else, but have you ever heard a Thai (sorry I generalize again) say: “I don't understand that”?
Is that strange? No, not at all, because Cornelis rightly says in his response that many Dutch people know nothing about history either. They just don't have any interest and there's nothing wrong with that.
Tino, you missed the point of the story. I spent two wonderful holidays in the Netherlands and some other European countries with my Thai wife. I didn't really do her any favors by visiting Brussels, Paris and Barcelona, she enjoyed those grazing cows in a Dutch landscape. I could have added that we made a fantastic trip to Ameland, cycling through the dunes and over the dikes, getting a breath of fresh air on the wide beaches of this beautiful Dutch island. She enjoyed that and how!
My apologies, Gringo, if you feel offended. I wrote above that you write good stories that I learn a lot from and that are fun to read.
But I have a tender spot in my heart when it comes to generalizations about 'Thai'. I can't stand that and maybe I react too strongly and too often.
Have I ever heard a Thai say 'I don't understand that'? Regular but not that frequent. This is usually because I don't explain it properly or my Thai is insufficient. I'll tell it again in a different way.
“Have you ever heard a Thai person (sorry I'm generalizing again) say: 'I don't understand that'?'
Yes, every week one of my students says he/she doesn't understand what I'm trying to explain. And then I explain it again.
very nice story and what an effort this man has done for his wife haha.
for me it was a trip to Brussels at about 30 km and that was it!
my ex didn't like old buildings and much preferred new stuff with lots of ornaments. if you only think about the Thai temples haha
a couple of Thais who came to university, both from very good families, he an architect and she, much smarter than him in science or something.
when they left for Thailand I wanted to pay them a farewell dinner in a good restaurant and they absolutely insisted on having the frog legs, something I certainly didn't expect!
So you see that also the wealthier Thai like eating such unusual animals, unlike the higher classes with us!
My wife and I have been to the Netherlands once for 1 weeks. From Alkmaar
, where my son and daughter live, with a rental car from b&b to b&b. She had quickly seen the Thai food in Alkmaar. After 1 x she was done with that. That was not real Thai food. She liked the Dutch food and thought the pancake at Duinvermaak was better than the Thai food. Continued through the whole country along all the sights. It was just bulb time so that was bingo.
Unfortunately, Mr. Gringo has little understanding of Buddhism and certainly not that there are as many movements in Buddhism as in our Christian culture (Protestantism).
Nevertheless, I wish him happy holidays
As well as all readers of this forum!
Darius
My Thai wife looked up at the greenery when she arrived in July. And she is sad when she sees the trees without leaves. “Are those trees dead?” She enjoys our nature in the summer. She has also learned that the sun is a virtue for our body. In Thailand the sun is something to get into the shade as quickly as possible.
She is surprised and disappointed about our food that nothing is "spicy". In Thailand she did suffer from the heat. Now at the start of her first winter she sometimes feels cold. But she tolerates the cold better than I expected.
She enjoys a day in Bruges or Ghent. And is surprised that almost everything is much more expensive than in Thailand. She was also surprised that the dentist handles everything himself. In Thailand a dentist has a horde of assistants. The cleanliness of the street amazed her enormously. She misses Thai (spicy) and cheap food. She compensates for that by cooking Thai almost every day. And I enjoy her cooking.
She is surprised that there are few customers in the bank and that there are few staff. She doesn't notice that we are served quickly and correctly.
Bit of a one sided story. With regard to the Netherlands, my wife is very interested in our country and culture. Goes even further because she sometimes works as a tour guide / organizer for groups of Thai who want to visit Europe or the Netherlands.
She even conveys this with great verve to her friends and acquaintances. also in Thailand.
We have a number of fixed tours through different parts of the Netherlands and parts of Europe.
In October-November from Rome a group of 30 Thai monks accompanies through Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Czech Republic and Germany to end in Dusseldorf. An 18 day tour.
Is already fixed to guide a group of 38 people from Dusseldorf through northern Germany, through the north and east of the Netherlands via the Polders (bulb fields) via Frielsand de dike and North Holland, South Holland, Zeeland, via Flanders to end in Brussels.
What also applies is how do you tell your story? What is the Netherlands for land, What is Germany, tell something about history in a funny way.
In Barger Compascuum, for example, you can see that people lived and lived in sod huts until the 60s.
Go to the country of Heiligerlee, but first to have been to Munster and Germany. Tie GOOD shopping into your journey. Visit Thai temples in Europe, Explain why the Afsluitdijk was built. Go up at the monument and overlook the dike and the mudflats.
Show people that there is more than Amsterdam, Volendam, etc., but have a good story to tell.
Explain it briefly and clearly and connect it to Thai history.
To say that an average Thai is not interested in Dutch food etc is also incorrect.
We ALSO eat all kinds of stew in Thailand just because it's easy and fast. My in-laws are always happy to eat too.
So?????
No Thai restaurant in Paris ????? We were in Paris last summer and saw several Thai restaurants. Even had dinner alone with our Thai travel companion.
@Nicky, see my response to FransAmsterdam on Dec 25 at 17.02:XNUMX PM
Also tell the Thai about the Christmas spirit, doing good for each other, contemplating and acting on the basis of peace and benevolence.
And then let them read the polemical reactions to this hardly incendiary story by Gringo, written on Christmas Day.