Grapperhaus talks to journalist in Bangkok
Ferd Grapperhaus (Nancy Beijersbergen / Shutterstock.com)
“Yes, I am Minister Ferd Grapperhaus of Justice and Security and I am responsible, among other things, for criminals to be locked up. What am I doing here in Bangkok? Well, I was sent here by the House of Representatives to try to get someone who has been sentenced to 103 years in prison, but fortunately only has to serve 20 years, to get out of a cell to continue serving his sentence in the Netherlands. The House of Representatives would prefer that that person travel back to the Netherlands with me.
I have just had a discussion on this subject with the acting Prime Minister here. I was nicely received with a cup of tea, we chatted a bit about how the flight was, whether I had been able to get some sleep and so on, but then I wanted to talk about the purpose of my visit. When I mentioned the name Van Laarhoven, the man looked at me with an expression of what is that man talking about? Van Laarhoven? Prisoner in Thailand? 20 years? There are tens of thousands in Thai prisons, several thousand of them foreigners, does that man think I know all the criminal cases?
When I explained that we would like the man to serve his sentence in the Netherlands, I saw the prime minister think (never, never!), but Thais remain friendly and he said that Thailand understands the Dutch wish. Actually, it was already clear to me after ten minutes that my visit would not yield any results, but we were able to stretch the conversation to three quarters of an hour.
I'm telling you this "off the record", because I can't get to the House of Representatives with this message. You know what, write an article for your newspaper with something like this:
“Minister Grapperhaus is very optimistic after the conversation with the Thai Prime Minister. He was very encouraged by the positive attitude of the Thai authorities. Grapperhaus does point out that a solution in the case "must be in accordance with the rule of law principles of both countries." This means that transferring Van Laarhoven from prison in Thailand to the Netherlands may not contravene Thai law. The minister said Thai Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha is benevolent and understands the background of his visit. But he also warned to be careful: it is not yet certain that Van Laarhoven can really return to the Netherlands.”
So, you got that, I did my best! Good, because I have to go now. Thomas has promised me, now that I'm in Thailand, to show the fun side of Bangkok. First something to eat in a restaurant with typical Thai dishes and then a drink in Soi Cowboy or was it Patpong?
Arrival KL875 at 09.50:876, escorted to Prayut residence, meeting with ministers and escorted back to Suvarnabhumi to catch return flight KL12.05 at XNUMX:XNUMX. It should all just be possible and back home before the weekend…. No time for pleasures….
That's a very tight time frame, so he certainly wouldn't have to stand in line to give fingerprints.
And then Rori (further down) is also wrong that he thought he saw Grapperhaus enter Candyland 🙂
Then he probably wasn't in KLM's cattle class, because you probably won't survive two of those long flights in a row.
It must have been a very short conversation.
2 hours and 15 minutes to get off the plane, get to Prayut, have a conversation and get back on the plane in time for departure.
Ministers are allowed to use the government aircraft, just now that he is in Thailand at the insistence of the House of Representatives. A new device has been available since this month and costs 90 million euros.
Don't think he flies with KLM because it's holiday season in Europe so this will be full. In addition, he is not traveling alone, I estimate, but has an assistant and maybe 2 or 3 people from the judiciary with him, as well as the chief public prosecutor and 1 to 3 members of the Thai embassy to support this official visit. These are my suspicions, but everyone will understand that an official delegation does not go on a scheduled flight that is full in a holiday month with tourists in shorts and flip flops
See the link about the new device:
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2019/07/06/regeringsvliegtuig-is-vooral-een-werkpaard-met-alleen-oranje-wingtips-a3966333#photo
It may well be that they go with the government aircraft, but otherwise they still travel 1st class with KLM
and they don't have to sit among tourists in shorts.
Incidentally, those 1-3 employees of the Thai embassy are already in Bangkok and therefore do not have to
Not to fly with 🙂
Thai Embassy … the one in The Hague.
The government aircraft is there for government missions like this one.
Ha Ha, how wonderfully synical, but I think it is indeed quite correct.
What struck me is that the best man was completely lost when meeting with Prayut. A short nod of the head towards Prayut, which was supposed to look like a blow and not see that Prayut tries to shake his hand, it must be jet lag.
I'm afraid this is mission impossible, but now they can show that they are trying to fix the mistake (framing someone).
Patpong or Soi cowboy? Yes, that would be nice and then take a photo and send it to the Telegraaf. 🙂 🙂
I have already responded several times that this really could have easily been discussed by the embassy. Well, and the Prime Minister is of course not aware of all criminal cases.
And yes, the appeal must be completed first.
Since this has not been arranged, there is no reason to apply for a wots.
And to what extent does the Prime Minister take this seriously?
For Christmas in the Netherlands? A utopia
Why only for that one mister Laarhoven? Are there otherwise no Dutch nationals who also have to reside in similar circumstances?
No, this is a very exceptional case in which the Dutch State is entirely to blame for the fact that Mr Laarhoven and his Thai wife were arrested and imprisoned in Thailand. Enough has been written about what happened here. In this case it is therefore logical that the Dutch State takes action to correct this blunder. This is completely separate from the fact that the only attempt here is to get a Dutch person who is imprisoned in Thailand to the Netherlands, because there are indeed more of them.
Best regards. Bz
Yes, there are, but they are not there through the fault of a Dutch overzealous public prosecutor.
Yes there are others, including for child abuse, do you want to bring them to the Netherlands???
Let them languish in Thai prison seems best or not???
But are they all as stinking rich as that "Mister" Laarhoven? I do not think so.
One sentence makes me think. “It was actually clear after 10 minutes that my visit would not yield anything, but we were able to extend the conversation for another 35 minutes.” So the remaining XNUMX minutes of small talk......
Just a totally fake message this piece.
Prayut's reaction that he did not know at all which prisoner Grapperhuis is really talking about, I assume that the entire mission was poorly prepared, or not prepared at all.
If you set up such a mission, which also from the Ned. taxpayer must be paid, you still assume that a correspondence has taken place before that time.
The fact that Prayut looked with a face when he heard the name Van Laarhoven, what on earth is this man talking about, leaves serious doubts about a professional preparation for this trip.
cynicism of the writer. Nicely written.
Nice but not far from the last.
By the way, I thought I saw someone with a bald head enter candyland in the company of a nice ladyboy
You don't just walk into Prayuth and of course this conversation was well prepared; at this level one knows one's files. But there is a potential loss of face on both sides and so there is the well-known reserve to the outside world.
The ruling in cassation appears to be next Tuesday and we will never hear if/how G's visit has accelerated that ruling. If that ruling means the end of the procedures, the WOTS procedure can be initiated for 'him' and, if necessary, a petition for clemency for 'her'. A WOTS case can take months, but with the right influential people behind it, it can go much faster. Their health may be the deciding factor.
I keep it that the couple is in NL for Christmas. The completion of the Machiel K case also gained momentum when the House intervened.
My god if this is the truth or probably could have been…,
you lose all faith in civil servants, ministers, prime ministers and the state!
And indeed a trip paid for from the wallet of the Dutch citizen.
But is this story really true?
Nice column.
More of those kinds of thought spins 555
Perhaps they could have sent Hans van Baalen.
He once also came back from Thailand with no business.
That sucked.
The second chamber has now used the joker for van Laarhoven. And this joker now has a holiday at the expense of the Dutch population. That's how they spend tax money.
That's exactly what I thought when I heard he was going to Bangkok. To get this man to the Netherlands. This minister must have felt like a trip to Thailand from our tax money. We save for the ticket and accommodation. That's how it goes here .
Yes, Marijke, an 11-hour flight to Thailand and a 12-hour flight back to the Netherlands after a few hours, will certainly have been a 'trip' that the minister was very much looking forward to. Hopefully the minister still had some air miles to hand in so that 'we' didn't have to save too much for his ticket. For the rest, I agree with RuudB's response below.
'Holiday at the expense of the Dutch population'? Maybe you can explain that?
Here, however, it is presented in a completely different light.
https://www.ad.nl/politiek/grapperhaus-thailand-bereid-te-werken-aan-oplossing-in-zaak-van-laarhoven~a0b2e54a/?referrer=https://www.google.be/
A response to the sentence “This means that transferring Van Laarhoven from prison in Thailand to the Netherlands MUST NOT GO AGAINST THAI LAW”. Which right?? In Thailand, nothing, absolutely nothing, is right. Everything here is crooked, flexible and elastic, as long as the right and, above all, sufficient lubricants are used.
Nice piece and it's a way to look at this. I have a different view and I find it rather disrespectful and especially the part that everyone in the world thinks "soi cowboy" is Valhalla. I think Grapperhaus has a little more class than the average sex tourist and doesn't care about that.
And that bald man must have been covered in tattoos, so it won't be Grapperhaus.
I hope for Van Laarhoven that his visit has had some influence, so that he can eventually be extradited and serve his 20-year sentence in the Netherlands. His room and board can also be paid from our tax money.
The piece may have been written cynically from a Dutch point of view. but for thai there is no loss of face and no interference in OUR affairs and in our country.
The story is clearly written with how sensitive it can be for a Thai. OOPs a farang is coming to tell us how to do it.
I myself have worked for a Belgian and previously for a Dutch multinational and I know how sensitive matters are. I always took a Thai colleague with me who had worked in Europe for about 5 years and who could translate our thoughts into the Thai feeling.
@ I think Grapperhaus has a little more class than the average sex tourist and doesn't care about that. And that bald man must have been covered in tattoos, so it won't be Grapperhaus
So you find this blog disrespectful, then you probably have little human knowledge or life experience in this area, you would be amazed if you knew how many people with 'class' do or want the same as that maligned sex tourist,
The only thing that might hold them back is the fact that they are too well known, or that it could be detrimental to their career.
You yourself now discriminate against people with tattoos, while a very large group of people have tattoos, you now even see cops on the street with tattoos. perhaps former colleagues of yours, and Prince Bernhard also had one.
What is it with our fellow countrymen that they only react with grimness to the fate of Van L. And now again with cynicism, even sarcasm. Mind you, I'm talking about comments in general. Let's hope that if one of the commenters also unexpectedly ends up in a Thai prison on incomplete grounds, more compassion will be his share.
What is actually going on? Many reactions to a previous article about the visit of the Minister of JenV to TH were mainly based on the truth. Because what really matters is that a request for legal assistance was sent to Thailand at the time, because NL wanted information about how Van L. lives in TH. Wrong formulations were used. For example, the term 'suspect' should not have been included in that request. The intention of the legal assistance request was therefore to obtain Dutch evidence. Not to sacrifice Van L. in advance. But it happened nevertheless. Consciously?
The result in the end is a sentence of 103 years initially, reduced to 75 years on appeal, with the stipulation to be released only after 20 years. Any respecting rule of law would be embarrassed. Please note: for the facts that NL was looking for, Van L. would have been imprisoned for barely a year in his own country. If Van L. had been so smart and moved to Sweden or Canada, he would have been extradited long ago and finished with Justice in 2017. Van L. had to go to TH if necessary and he knew that.
Let us once again establish that the Public Prosecution Service in Breda did not intend to play a trick on Van L.! However? In short: NL had something to make up for. And that's what Grapperhaus did. Point.
The fact that there is such a strong response to Grapperhaus' visit to TH has everything to do with the pettiness of many commenters. They think it is unjustified that Van L. is being defended. If you look closely at the responses, you can read a lot of envy between the lines. Many respondents believe they are being disadvantaged by the NL Government.
They are shortchanged, but a real minister is ready for Van L. An argument that makes no sense, because: the predominant feeling of being a “Calimero” is because of one's own frustration. The Van L. case due to serious procedural errors. It is what it is, and that's it. Again: period!
Oh well, a few baht behind the scenes works wonders
And if Van Laarhoven does come to the Netherlands, you can wait for him, rightly so, to sue the Dutch state. I think this is far from over.
Sue for what? The investigation (by OM) is still ongoing. Van Laarhoven can never prove that he has earned so much money legally with his coffee shop. That will be the 1st question from the judge; “Mr van Laarhoven, let's see your accounts”. And believe me, that will raise more questions than answers.
Mr. van Laarhoven himself went to Thailand (has fled…) and that the request for legal assistance from the Dutch Public Prosecution Service was “careless”. However, negligence is legally different from unlawful and in order to be eligible for compensation, this will still be necessary.
No, Van Laarhoven is going to play it out through the media for a while, playing pathetic at Jinek or Pauw with (eg) Mr. Knoops by his side, but we're really not going to see him getting money.
Let that figure sit for 20 years and no more sweet trips from ministers. It also no longer costs the Dutch taxpayer any money.
I also think 5 years in prison is more than enough for what L. is being accused of.
Especially in a Thai prison.
But then also tapping off at least 20.000.000 evaded tax euros.
Then the travel costs of Graphuis are also earned back, 🙂
Anyway….if you are so squealed by your own government then you will be left with a trauma!
Those lost years and then again under these circumstances you will never get over them, I think..