Location Bangkok: the smell of fresh schoolbag leather…
The new school year is already more than two months old and the first mid-term exams are over. Pfff..
Almost all of my students come from anti-Red Shirt nests. They pick up their political affiliations, like all of us, over dinner where their parents discuss the country's malaise.
In my opinion, my students are still too young for nuanced political positions, based on life experience, trial and error.
Twelve years ago, when I taught for the first time in a Thai secondary school, I was shocked by the lack of general education among Thai teenagers. Many believed that Africa was a country – an opinion that would be shared 7 years later by the Republican nominee for US Vice President Sarah Palin – and they firmly believed that New York was the capital of London, a belief that I'm not quite sure Palin held, but I wouldn't be surprised...
Thailand has been inward looking for centuries. Thais know very little about the rest of the world, in which they are actually very much like Americans. This has to do with the fact that Thailand is the only nation in SE Asia that has never been colonized by a Western power. Something the Thais are very proud of. That, in turn, has led to a sometimes eerie nationalism. Everything that takes place outside the country was (until recently) of zero value. Thailand as the center of the universe.
What also struck me was the inability of Thai students to think and analyze independently. When I asked a student 'What do you think of…..', I was met with a helpless stare into nothingness. They had never learned to "find something." Evidence has never been part of the Thai curriculum, which has always emphasized factual knowledge. The good old stamping.
Fifteen years ago, by order of the Thai Ministry of Education, 'critical thinking' and 'child-centered learning' suddenly became buzz words in Thai schools. For decades it should have been sadly watched as Thai parents who could afford it sent their children to the US, Australia and England for an education that their offspring could actually use.
The only question is: How do you implement those things, when the majority of Thai teachers are also a product of that damned 'rote-learning' system, the good old stamping…?
My answer: Gradually retire all current teachers early in an early retirement system and triple the salary for starting Thai teachers (180 euros per month) to attract new, young teachers and reorganize Thai teacher training with the help of knowledge and manpower from Abroad.
Answer from the Ministry of Education: Fuck, how would I know?!
When my boss, an American man from the "hiring and firing" scene at our school, recruited an Israeli couple of South African descent, Yupa, the head of the Foreign Language Department, burst breathlessly into our teacher's lounge yelling "Chester, how can you accept those people, a Jew and an Israeli, (Jael was Jewish, Clarke her boyfriend, Israeli), the Jews and Israelis are at war with each other!!!' Yupa is from 1948 and has therefore had enough time to delve into the issue that has been playing in Israel since that time?
Or not?
But now, nine years later, things have thankfully changed with the Internet. The Internet has made Thai middle-class teenagers much more up-to-date than their middle-aged Thai teachers, creating a situation where my Thai colleagues want nothing more than an early retirement. They would be incessantly corrected by their pupils…
(Source: Cor Verhoef, Het Triumviraat, 24 May 2010)
Nice piece and sometimes recognizable I immediately had to think of my Thai brother-in-law (of my age a 50 plus) when I read your piece.
When I first met him years ago he showed me his fruit plantation and then asked my wife what kind of trees I had in Holland.
She told him I had no trees, so he asked her where I lived!
He really had no idea what was going on in the world outside Thailand, and now I do notice that there has been a lot of change since the advent of the internet, and I think that's a good thing.
There is 1 question that comes to mind when I read your piece, you write that the Internet has ensured that Thai middle class teenagers are much more up to date than their Thai teachers, and therefore want them to retire early.
I think that these teachers need to move more with the times, what does it matter to these teachers to focus more on the internet and thus gain the same knowledge as their students, they will then no longer be so quickly ignored by their students words improved I think.
Of course I can only judge my Thai colleagues who are often well into their fifties and who don't like all that internet stuff, and in most cases they don't like the so-called 'social media' or don't even know what it means. I've had a school principal who thought Facebook was a face cream, just to illustrate.
Perhaps it all has to do with the fact that my Thai colleagues are not naturally curious. They also never read a book. Mind you, I'm only talking about my colleagues who I've known for 9 years and I've never seen anyone with a book. Very little is read in this country.
I must mention that my Thai fellow sufferers are all very nice people. My school is a warm nest. As for my lessons, my students never suspect what will happen next. Do they like.
A few years ago I was with my wife at my brother's birthday party. His brother-in-law sat next to me. It came up so much that we would be in Thailand for Christmas that year. The brother-in-law asked me how Thai families decorate their Christmas tree. I replied that most Thai families are followers of Bhudah and do not have a Christmas tree in their house. He looked at me strangely and surprised, had no idea. Thought the whole world was white.
Cor,
I read your story with a smile. That was all very recognizable.
I live next to the local school and I can follow laying well. And that teaching is no longer of this time.
Indeed, very little is read in Thailand. It didn't surprise me, therefore, that I heard in IT shops and bookshops that they had never heard of an E-reader, let alone that they have one for sale in the store.
If you drive through the Thai countryside between 7 and 8 in the morning you will see processions of children of all ages in their uniforms with a school bag on their backs from all soi's going to school. I still find that a beautiful sight, I find it heartwarming.
Moderator: Your comment should be about Thailand.
Dear Corey,
A nice piece indeed, and so recognizable, especially the pieces about geography and religion
currents that are unknown territory for the Thai, and certainly also the knowledge of
(modern) media, the internet. I read some pieces with surprise, the response of the Thai teacher Yupa, quote, (who has had enough time to delve into the issue,..Jewish,..Israeli) ok!! In this case, in the state of Israel you have different religious movements: 82% are Jewish, 14% are Islamic, including Sunites and Shiites and other religions such as Christians 2.7% and Druze 1.7%, so Yupa's comment (deliberately or unconscious) is therefore not necessarily wrong.
The fact that the Thai know little about the rest of the world is a science that you can also blame the rest of the world with all the beautiful, but also creepy disadvantages. These are presented to us daily by the media, ... because the media has at least always a win-win situation. But you have data and facts and it is important to be able to distinguish between them, and then the internet as a medium is a library.
And we must never forget,…History is written by the victor, and that in all the colors of life.
Gradually make all current teachers redundant early, triple the salary and reorganize teacher training with help from abroad. Such measures are not realistic and feasible in any country, including Thailand. It indicates something of frustration (turning into cynicism) but it does not contribute to the solution of a problem that is – in my humble opinion – much deeper.
For many decades, Thailand has been ruled by authoritarian prime ministers who could also be called dictators. The same was (and is?) the case in a number of neighboring countries. These people had absolutely no need for articulate citizens who can think independently and form their own opinions. One of them even banned English language classes because Thai was enough (to conquer the world).
Thai culture is one of no conflict, of seeking compromise and Buddhism abhors extreme expressions (both left and right). Perhaps one of the reasons why both right-wing extremism and left-wing extremism have never found a broad breeding ground in Thailand, and do not find it now.
Asking for help from abroad means acknowledging that you can no longer solve the problem yourself. Increasing salaries requires (even more) favoritism in the hiring policy of teachers. And the current education managers have no interest in large-scale reorganisations.
I work at a university and am not as optimistic about the effect of the internet as Cor. My students spend hours on facebook every day, posting (in my opinion) nonsensical messages and pictures (especially of what they eat) and copy-pasting texts has reached the size of China. They don't even use 5% of the internet's capabilities to really learn much faster. I don't think they are getting smarter, but dumber.
Dear Chris,
Whether or not a solution is feasible is not the question. I often wonder how the abominable system should be reversed, feasible or not. Judging by what would be feasible, I should write that everything should remain the same. because that has already been achieved and is therefore achievable.
I have also found that my students have indeed become more assertive and empowered over the past ten years and I believe this is due to the Internet and Social Media. For the first time, students give their opinion -anonymously- on matters that they used to not even dare to dream about.
About asking for foreign aid; why do you think you and I are paid big money here? The Thais are not crazy. They really understand that when a problem arises (Thai teachers cannot teach English) it cannot be solved. there is indeed a knock on the door. If that were not the case, you and I wouldn't even be able to work here.
About making your students dumber because of the internet. What do you base that on? What metric did you use for this? My students are also often on FB, but they also often give away their emotions, ideas, thoughts and yes.. opinions. Not bad at all right?
Cor,
That people in Thailand want young people to learn English is a fact, but with a Thai foundation, way of thinking, view and, formulation, the Thai cultural heritage.
That is why a Thai teacher is almost always present in the classroom, and determines in consultation with the school management how and in what way teaching will take place, which in principle poses a problem for the English teacher, due to his/her limitation of the Thai language. and culture,…because let's face it…translating from English to Thai is a rape of the Thai language,…an elephant in the china shop
And regarding your response to namesake Chris
with regard to the kind of use of the internet or fb., with the expression of emotions thoughts, opinions that is quite ... (bad ) naive, whether this happens in Thailand, the West or wherever. What we are talking about in this have young people, from puberty up to and including the age of 25, and can later be judged on their statements or thoughts, done at an age, in which they cannot yet oversee the consequences,,......a good teacher is who which can provide added value
Stupid? Yes:
1. the results of Thai students and pupils on almost all components: language, arithmetic, English in the latest national school examinations and university entrance examinations. Both in absolute and relative terms compared to other AEC countries.
2. research worldwide that shows that students have less relevant ready knowledge but look everything up on the internet (but then forget it).
Example 1: yesterday I had to host an exam 'basic mathematics' for 1st year students of my faculty. (students are approximately 20 years old). The first 10 questions are about percentages. How much is 20% of 500? What percentage is 4 of 80? The students have to look this up with a calculator.
Example 2: The medium-sized companies in Thailand have great opportunities to fill their vacancies. Main reason: the lack of GOOD employees. A friend of mine doesn't even dare to hire university graduates because their knowledge is absolutely not sufficient for the labor market.
@Chris
You are right on all points. In the first place you teach at university level. This means that all students are busy at the end of their education and will soon be released on society. This gives you a unique “helicopter view” coupled with a much better understanding of the “total product” (the student) than a high school English teacher. This is not intended to be offensive, but a statement of fact.
A few weeks ago, the Bangkok Post reported that the Thai authorities are most concerned about the ever-declining quality of graduate doctors at Mahidol University. This is mainly because wealthy parents offer huge sums under the table to ensure that their children are admitted to this university. And it is often difficult for these students to keep up due to a poor previous education, a total lack of motivation and often a correspondingly low IQ. How these students eventually obtain their doctor's degree is a mystery to me, but the fact remains that they are bad doctors and therefore a danger to society.
I read here anti red shirt litters.
So I can assume that the majority of his students come from families with money.
And that again makes a big difference .
I don't get involved in politics here.
I will be concerned Red or Yellow , but this could lead to a civil war .
I also see that tensions are rising among some population groups here .
But see the difference between rich and poor.
Rich parents in Thailand also mean better education, new computers, good and fast access to the internet, etc.
I also know a young lady good IQ , parents very poor .
Doesn't even have a PC yet, but a second-hand mobile phone.
Would like to learn English .
Gentlemen of this Forum also in Thailand there is still a lot to do .
To get rid of this problem, but with all the corruption and crony politics, I am afraid that this will remain a wish for many for the time being.
Mvg Jantje.
I myself have taught in Isaahn for half a year, but despite the internet, most (80%) still cannot understand me, despite the fact that I speak pretty Thai.
Here you are expected to be present for 45 hours to get paid for 30 hours, if I am 1 minute late, that money will be taken directly from my wages at the end of the moon, there is a time clock, with a fingerprint reader, so there is no way being messed with, the thai are always late, but that should be possible, said the director.
They want me to teach English grammar, but if they don't understand you, that's impossible.
I also taught geography, but the maps were not there, just like books, notebooks, etc..
They also wanted me to teach math, but most of them never learned to count, so it made more sense for me to teach them that 1st.
With the knowledge of my fellow teachers, I suggested giving the weaker ones some extra attention in a separate class, but that was not appreciated either.
When I went to meditation class I was the only teacher present, all the others had to BBQ and drink Thai of course.
The lessons are much too short, 50 minutes and then hope that they don't show up too late in the classroom as usual, otherwise you only have 35 minutes to transfer your knowledge.
Some thai teachers just sit on the computer while teaching, and when the students use the computer they play games, it is almost impossible to get them to read something and that's why they don't learn, almost all thai speak bad english, so it gets them too has still been told incorrectly, which is why they do not say my wife, for example, but my wy.
The r is also not pronounced, I happened to be talking about this yesterday with a friend who teaches French..
I know a few thai who speak good english, but they come from wealthy families and have all been taught in the UK for 3 or 4 years.
There is too much talking in class, I have seen it being talkative on this site.
And it's all about nothing.
Most thai just don't want to learn, exceptions aside, the best way to learn something is by repeating it, and especially by writing it down, afterwards see if you still remember everything.
A computer is seen as a “toy” a computer can only be used to look up information so that it can be used in the classroom.
Sometimes a powerpoint presentation in between, if a projector is present.
I still see most thai working with a calculator because they never memorized the 1 to 12 tables like we did.
I get on well with my students because they see that I am really trying to teach them something, and I treat them all the same, I have good colleagues who, as far as I know, have the same goal.
But as long as they don't learn from their mistakes, nothing will change.
mvg, Art
Morning Arthur,
My goodness, isn't it hugely frustrating to stand in front of the class and try to teach the youth something and they just keep talking???
I always wonder what the hell they are talking about.
For example, they work together all day long, day in and day out, and that activity never stops.
Now I know that the Thai repeat everything, but then everything a dozen times, but then again, to be able to talk for a full day without interruption????????????????????
Louise
If they don't stop talking, I'll run my nails over the blackboard and look at them questioningly!!!!
Well, just a small correction. Thailand likes to throw sand in the eyes about not being colonized. Thailand was indeed colonized by Japan during World War II. Since Thailand was “wrong” at that time and in turn offered Japan the freedom to use its ports to invade Malaya (Malaysia) including Singapore, Thailand has been offered some sovereignty as a thank you. Now you also have a direct answer to the question why terrorist attacks always and forever take place in the south of Thailand, where mostly Muslims live. As a “thank you” Thailand received this piece of Malaya from Japan. Well, and these people (where the hatred runs generations deep), just want to go back to the current Malaysia.
It is clear that Thailand likes to forget this piece of history and would rather not hear it.
Other than that I recognize the story. I have been living in Thailand for 20 years and in that time I have taught in Bangkok (high school) for several years and after a while I saw it again because initiatives to make students more articulate are not appreciated. I tried, among other things, to create more interaction between the students and unfortunately, that was not allowed. What I saw (and still see) is that students are becoming more assertive, but then in private with friends and family and of course anonymously via the internet (including Facebook). Thailand is not waiting for articulate students because the system does not want that. Every form of empowerment or openness is still tried to be nipped in the bud. Shame. What is normal for us in a modern education system is still “not done” in Thailand.
I also spoke to parents regularly and many see these shortcomings where the education mainly consists of dictation with little room for good English. Even now. These parents also told me that after this school their children were sent abroad anyway for a higher further education. Whether the children returned to Thailand after their studies was not important to them. It is a pity that you see good students (read: quality) leave Thailand and that “the system” does nothing about it.
That was the reason for me to leave education in Thailand for what it was last year, because it also hindered me enormously.
I have now further focused 100% on running my own travel agency that I have had for 10 years now. Let me take care of myself and my family. Much more important than beating a dead horse.
Rudolf, in my piece it says "Something has to do with the fact that Thailand, as the only nation in SE Asia, has never been colonized by a WESTERN power.".
And that's right. Incidentally, I would rather call the years of the 2nd World War Japanese occupation instead of colonialization.
Also, I don't consider myself an education expert. Those are your words. I just teach and therefore I am a teacher.
Just clearing up a mistake. My above reaction was a reaction to what Gerard wrote and is therefore not intended for Rudolf. Sorry.
I agree with Cor on all points, with the exception of his comment that, perhaps ironically, salaries should be tripled. Many Dutch people interested in Thailand have the impression that teachers are underpaid {Cor probably knows better}. Nothing could be further from the truth. With their salary, teachers are now among the top earners, especially considering their secondary and tertiary employment conditions. I know couples {2 salaries} who come home with 100.000 baht a month. Moreover, low salaries should always be seen in relation to other professions. I do remember an IQ, by the way. test with the result that the thai students scored 10 points lower than in other countries, no doubt this is also the reason for the refusal to read books.
It is a pity that both “education specialists” of Thailandblog always try to outdo each other. Instead of completing each other, resulting in a good and clear picture and insight, the confusion increases. This invites others to join in and spread the confusion. (Incidentally, I often notice that comments afterwards are filled with terrible grammatical errors, a lack of language skills, incorrect sentence constructions, and that generalization is not left unused.)
The discussion on Cor V.'s article resembles that of the end of July last following an article by Chris de B. A repetition of the same, including the results. I'm gonna do the same.
Below is an edit of an earlier response on my part dated 22-7:
“Thai society is characterized by an extremely conservative attitude, a conflict of interests, a conservatism of the political elite, and a number of generally accepted social attitudes such as non-criticalness and lack of independent thinking, which attitudes in many (Southern) )East Asian societies through the ages arose under the influence of Buddhism, among others.
If Thailand wants to join the momentum of the (surrounding) peoples, a new kind of consciousness is essential. An awareness that 'people' all want progress and feel it as such. However, Asian cultures by definition, through the ages and until now, still have a hierarchical worldview, and are convinced that their leaders will (or will) bring about progress. The 'top-down thinking' will have to be converted into a new 'bottom-up image of man'.
All sections of Thai society, young and old, must realize that every individual in a society is a potential resource, that everyone should have equal opportunities to develop, that no talent should be neglected, and that everyone should have his/her contributes to society. In addition to structural changes, this requires much more important changes in mentality. Even more important than the early redundancy of older teachers, raising salaries for starting teachers, and bringing in foreign expertise. That will give rise to resistance, breed even more imbalances, and whether the change will be accepted and widely supported is also the question.
Change will also take place in Thailand as progressive insight matures.
However, the pace will be 'slow down', and the results will never be Western. That is not necessary. Thailand is not the Netherlands, the East is not the West, and the ZOA region is not Europe.
It is clear that Thailand still has a lot of achievements to master.
I only hope that the two education specialists will often refer to us enthusiastically about the cautious first steps towards becoming adults of emancipating young people (of the latter it can be said that they have to get rid of this image!)
With thanks and regards, Rudlof
It remains difficult not to impose your own norms and values on others.
I can well imagine that as a Thai citizen you attach less value to geographical, political and social knowledge outside Thailand.
In general, Thai citizens have a small living environment in which they move.
If I include Maslow's pyramid, it is therefore logical that the will to study is less present. And then I leave aside whether someone actually has the opportunity to study.
Of course striving for progress and development is fine, but I think the living situation in which someone finds themselves is also the basis for this.
In other words, I would also find it more important to earn a living than to know what is happening on the other side of the world.
The big difference between the lower and upper classes in Thai society is a stumbling block and power and finances will certainly play a role in this.
On the other hand, I also see many things in which the Thai are, in my opinion, better developed than, for example, the Dutch. I am thinking here of creativity, musicality and, for example, knowledge about nature.
All in all, I end up with everyone respecting their own norms and values and there is no good or bad. There is only different 😉
Cor: Nicely written article, but still….the title!?
I never see students here in Thailand with a leather satchel, it's all a backpack provided by the school. Handy perhaps for going from home to school and vice versa, but I always wonder if you can store the things so nicely organized in that backpack. When I occasionally look in our son's backpack, it looks like war, Books and notebooks with countless dog ears, crumpled notes, plastic bags with food in them, etc.
I myself had a leather school bag in high school, everyone had that, so I know the smell of a leather school bag. Never fresh, of course, because it was cooler if you had an older bag. The bag also did not go on the luggage carrier of your bicycle, but simply on the front of the handlebars.
I don't know how they do it nowadays in the Netherlands, perhaps often with a backpack or with a leather school bag or diplomat case?