In conversation with three democracy fighters
On a sunny October morning, Tino Kuis and Rob V traveled to Amsterdam for a special meeting. We had the opportunity to speak with three people who are committed to democracy, freedom of expression and human rights of Thai citizens.
We met the trio at the central station, where the Thai Somyot and Junya arrived from Cologne. Amsterdam was the last stop in a series of major European cities where these two were allowed to stage their fight for a better Thailand. The Dutch Marijke joined them at several of these locations.
Tino had brought a present for Somyot, a special copy of the magazine of which Somyot was editor-in-chief. Somyot spent years in prison and had not seen his magazine 'Voice of Taksin' nor its successor 'Red Power' since then. In the edition that Somyot received as a gift, his own imprisonment is described. We could see from the joy in his eyes that this did him good. Somyot is a warm man, although he noticed that the years behind bars have left a big scar on him. Junya told us that Somyot, after all that has been done to him, does not shed a tear for anything. Yet Somyot is still full of positive energy and hope inside, the same goes for Juya and Marijke. A calling from the heart for a better world, they have a battle to fight and don't mince words, dare to say what is wrong with Thailand out of love for this country. 
Fighting for a nation where ordinary citizens can have a decent life under a just, fair, democratic rule of law.
Who are these activists?
Somyot Pruksakasemsuk (สมยศ พฤกษาเกษมสุข) was born in Bangkok in 1961, he is a Thai activist who works for labor rights and human rights. For example, he participated in the Clean Cloths Campaign, an international alliance that is committed to better labor rights in the clothing and shoe industry. Although not a great admirer of Thaksin Shinawatra, he co-founded the red magazine 'Voice of Taksin' with a few others. Taksin is also the name of King Taksin, a king who is highly regarded among the ordinary Thai. The Thai caption did say Thaksin (ทักษิณ), the name of the former prime minister. As editor-in-chief of this magazine, Somyot was arrested in 2011 and charged with lèse majesté. This because as editor he had allowed two articles about a fictional kingdom to be published. According to the court, the character in these pieces could be seen as a reference to King Bhumibol. Somyot refused to plead guilty, which would have meant a halving of his sentence. He was sentenced to 11 years in prison, later reduced to 7 years. He was released in April 2018 and continued his fight for democracy. The author of the two articles has never been convicted.
Junya Yimprasert (Tjanjaa Yimpraseurt), also known as Lek, was born in 1966 in a village 100 kilometers outside of Bangkok. Junya is also a campaigner for labor rights - especially women's rights - and works for the most vulnerable people in Thailand and beyond. After the bloody suppression of the demonstrations in 2010, she wrote a highly critical article about King Bhumibol. As a result, she was forced to flee her country. She was granted political asylum in Finland and from there she continues to work for Thai workers and democracy.
Finally, we spoke with Marijke Wit. Marijke is a nurse, a member of Amnesty International and she is also committed to human rights and democracy. She has protested at the Thai consulate in Amsterdam and London and also written letters to the Thai king and the Dutch embassy in Bangkok.
We took a seat on a terrace in the heart of Amsterdam and, while enjoying a snack and a drink, asked them questions about their struggle and their visions for a better Thailand.
Dear Somyot, can you tell us about your struggle?
After the September 2006 coup, I joined the movement for democracy and became one of the Red Shirt leaders. In May 2007 I stepped down and founded the 24 June Democracy Group. A group that aims to promote democratic values and to fight all forms of dictatorship. In 2010, I was the editor of Voice of Taksin, a political magazine that gave a voice to the voiceless people of Thai society, the oppressed. We represented workers, farmers and people fighting for freedom and democracy. The requirements were clear: firstly, reasonable wages with which to provide for a living. Secondly, the creation of a real democracy where people have the right to organize themselves, to protest, to develop political activities and to express their ideas. Freedom of expression, that's what my magazine stood for.
What will you do now that you are free?
I keep fighting, I'm not afraid to go back to prison. It was a terrible time but we have to fight for justice, our ideals. I will try to free other political prisoners, to change the laws. That the abuses against Thai citizens come to an end. It is time for the various prime ministers to be held accountable for their actions. A commission of inquiry must be set up to review the actions of all previous governments involved, so that criminal proceedings can be initiated where necessary. Since 1973, there has never been an objective prosecution of those responsible for the blood that spilled through the streets. We can't let those responsible get away with that! If necessary, via the International Criminal Court in The Hague.
Foreign interference with Thailand, is that possible?
We live in an open world, we have to care about each other, we are not alone on this earth. Where does the rice come from here in Amsterdam? The clothing? Do those things come from the Netherlands or do they come from Bangladesh or Thailand, for example? There are quite a few men with a Thai wife, why? Because the borders are disappearing, we are all citizens of the world so we should all care about what is happening in Thailand. And by the way (Somyot starts smiling and changes his tone from serious to sarcastic), you Dutchmen have plundered much of Asia, it's time you apologize and give something back to us...
**
Somyot and Junya continue to fight for democracy, human rights, a decent life for ordinary citizens. Yunja, for example, maps poor working conditions of Thai guest workers, people whose passports are confiscated to be abused as a kind of slave. These abuses do not only occur abroad, but also in Sweden and Finland, for example. Now living in Europe, she uses the freedom of expression and the right to demonstrate to point out their failures to representatives of her Thailand. It goes without saying that this criticism is not always welcome.
**
Yunja, aren't you afraid you'll never be able to return to Thailand?
I am not giving myself over to that doomsday image. In the past, Thai exiles like Pridi did not have the means of communication we know today. Thai exiles overseas have opened the eyes of the Thai public. And the struggle for democracy has been going on for so long, more than 80 years. Pridi never saw his vision for Thailand come true, but we keep going. My return to Thailand is not a priority, the most important thing is to get our message across. The need for democracy, human rights and equality. Thailand needs a revolt, that is clear to me, but how to achieve our ideals without blood flowing again, that is the question.
Are there people you look up to, heroes?
No, I'm against heroes. There are so many people who have contributed to our struggle. So many who are committed in all kinds of ways. There is not a single hero. It is too easy to point to a single hero, something we see in Thai history and folktales. The elite love to single out a single hero and ignore the collective, where the real power lies. No, they fear the power of the collective. So we shouldn't appoint heroes. And that's why I worry about allowing someone like Thanathorn from the Future Forward Party to be seen as a hero. The handsome, smart, young, charismatic man, he fits perfectly into the picture of a hero. Will he allow himself to be used as a game piece? Lacking roots with the common people, will this rich young man compromise? He has already done so by no longer fighting for the abolition of the lèse-majesté law. We will see if he has more courage than Thaksin, if he will really commit to change. But he still has to prove himself otherwise we can't trust him either.
What are your expectations for the upcoming election?
They will take place and the first thing that is needed after the elections is a referendum on revising the constitution, writing a new constitution, dissolving parliament and then elections. Thanathorn is very clear on this and I am with him on this point. It will still take at least 5 years to write a proper constitution and to elect a parliament that really represents the people.
Do you think that parties such as Pheu Thai, the Commoner Party and Future Forward can work together?
I hope so. I think that Pheu Thai and the Commoner Party (Civil Party) can work together, possibly Future Forward (New Future Party), but the Democrat Party (Democratic Party) certainly cannot. But there is also a risk at Pheu Thai, Thaksin is so full of himself and his economic visions. Yingluck also says 'the economy first', but she is wrong. It should be 'people first'. Thailand must become a country where we can trust our politicians. Thaksin has always been corrupt, so we can't fully trust Pheu Thai either.
And can we in the Netherlands mean something to Thailand?
Of course! You can write to your king, parliament and embassy and inform them, protest against the way things are going in Thailand. How people who are critical of the established order disappear or are intimidated. Name and shame, name the horrible things that are happening in Thailand. I sometimes feel the desire to hand out flyers at the airport here in Europe calling on tourists to spread the word of democracy in Thailand. Step outside your comfort zone, don't go to Thailand just to enjoy the sun, sea and women.
But there are those who say that Asian countries cannot handle democracy as Europe knows it, that they need a paternalistic, powerful leader?
No, that's an insult to humanity. I believe that everyone knows very well what freedom is. If you care about freedom, you must realize that other people have that desire too. It's in our human nature. People who say otherwise are racists. The Thai are not monkeys! This excuse that Thailand is not yet ready for democracy is also what the Thai elite use, but it is nothing but an excuse to stay in power. And the idea that if you're not Thai you can't talk about Thailand is absolutely crazy. They also tell me to keep my mouth shut, that I don't love my country. Ridiculous! We must fight back, resist. We live in a globalizing world where we as human beings are collectively responsible for each other's well-being. Not by sharing money or food, but by opening doors so that other people can also think and speak freely.
**
Marijke Wit is one of those Westerners who interferes in the affairs of Thailand. As a member of Amnesty International and with a warm heart for Thailand, it was therefore clear to her that we must voice a dissent, never again to welcome a dictator on European territory.
**
In what ways are you fighting for the democratization of Thailand?
By demonstrating against Prayut during his visit to London, and I also attend conferences on human rights and democracy. I have written letters to the Thai konong, to the Dutch ambassador in Thailand and to the European Union to draw attention to human rights in Thailand. I also write to Amnesty International in Amsterdam and London about the Thai activists. I also demonstrated for the release of Waen, a Thai volunteer nurse who cared for injured protesters during the 2010 street protests. She is a key witness to the military's deadly violence against civilians. She was arrested by the army in 2015 and imprisoned innocently, recently she was happily released.
I talk a lot with Thai people who are committed to change, read a lot about Thai politics and I've seen the movie 'Democracy After Death'. A 2016 Thai movie that sheds light on Thai politics that emerged from the September 2006 and May 2014 coups. I recommend people see that movie, you can find it on YouTube.
So the Thai people are not left with the lack of democracy?
People know that the economy is declining compared to other countries, that health care is also deteriorating. Demonstrations are banned and the constitution has been amended. Many Thai people are tired of politics but standing up for democracy is worth fighting for. Otherwise, the tax money will go to submarines or expensive watches and other gadgets for the senior military instead of investing the money in education, health care, more jobs, better working conditions and higher salaries.
The military will not just hand over their power, not even now that elections are about to take place. But little by little we can achieve these essential goals together.
***
It is evident that there is still a long way to go before Thailand gives its citizens the same rights that we take for granted here in Europe. But thanks to the unbridled efforts of people who have the guts to make their voices heard, that day is certainly approaching. So a tribute to these three warm-hearted people. It was a pleasure to have spoken to them in our free Netherlands.
More information:
- Letter from Somyot from prison: www.thailandblog.nl/BACKGROUND/wet-op-majesteitsschennis-aanvechten/
- Blog about Waen and the hell she went through: www.thailandblog.nl/BACKGROUND/waen-getuige-van-een-misdaad-en-zelf-vervolgd-uit-intimidatie/
I appreciate people with an opinion who dare to stick their neck out despite possible far-reaching consequences. The only problem with politics is that there is never an absolute truth. Thinking in terms of right or wrong is also too easy, although you quickly have that tendency. It is in our nature to stand up for people who are oppressed. However, that is not always the best way. Similarly, the outcome of the Arab Spring is not all positive.
You can also read between the lines that the interviewers have a lot of respect for the people they are interviewing, and then unfortunately there are no really critical questions. This is how the hairs on the back of my neck stood on end when I read this: And by the way (Somyot starts smiling and changes his tone from serious to sarcastic), you Dutchmen have plundered much of Asia, it's time you apologize and give something back to us...
In that case, I would ask Somyot: “Isn't it time that you (Thailand) also apologized for the intensive cooperation with the Japanese in World War II? Don't you know that at least 3.000 Dutch people died on Thai territory when they had to perform forced labor on the Burma railway line?
And finally a question to Tino and Rob V. When are you going to interview someone from the current government, because it is always adversarial in journalism?
Dear Peter,
The opinions of the current government are daily on all Thai media. Journalists who ask the wrong questions are threatened.
Does thailandblog also ask for 'hearing both sides' when publishing statements by the current regime? No? Why not? Do it!
And yes, Thailand should apologize for cooperating with the Japanese and for a few other minor issues like the robbery of the revered 'Emerald Buddha' from Vientiane, Laos.
And you are right: we should have asked more critical questions….
We are not journalists so of course with better interviewing skills we could have been more critical. Who knows next time. But I doubt that we could get into a conversation with one of the gentlemen with stripes on the shoulder, or that it would be a warm conversation…
All appreciation from both Thai freedom fighters, who dare to denounce everyday political practice, despite the repression. Every day we also read through this blog about the many inconveniences that apply in Thailand. The Netherlands always leads the way when it comes to freedom, human rights and democracy, so the call to be critical is justified. The fact that a sarcastic joke is made in this context and that a sneer is given to the Netherlands fits into the context of the story. Has the Netherlands ever apologized to, for example, the Indonesian population for all the exploitation and extortion? The Netherlands still fails to be open and honest, which became clear once again with the recent death of Joop Hueting. Nevertheless: in my secondary school days we still had history lessons and I learned that the then cabinet already reported in 1850 that Java “turned out to be the cork on which the Dutch economy floated”, and that for many years. Let's stay supportive and not teach Thailand a lesson. That attitude no longer fits.
Dear Ruud,
The problem is that governments fear the material consequences of apologies.
Personally, I think that I and my compatriots living now cannot be blamed for what our ancestors did. That does not alter the fact that apologies from us and our government are in order. That does not necessarily mean that we and our government are liable for what our ancestors and their governments did. Our government would do well to apologize to Indonesia, for example, and to offer aid that benefits the well-being of the Indonesians.
What I notice is that Indonesia, both the current residents and their government, have no grudge against the Netherlands. They also want a good relationship with the Netherlands and cooperation. There is no room for accusations over and over again. A mere apology is already a grand gesture and is also perceived as such.
I think making excuses is nonsense. When we talk about that, the first question is how long do we go back? The Romans have wreaked havoc in Europe. The Spaniards slaughtered so many people in our country during the 80 years war. The Germans can make excuses every day and so on.
We live in the present. Back then it was a completely different time, with a different understanding.
The Netherlands does not have to make excuses for me and neither do other countries to the Netherlands. Don't look backward.
It was therefore a sarcastic remark, if you think about it, pretty much the whole world has something to apologize for. If you look far enough back, there is something where some members of a group have done something that is unacceptable and reprehensible by today's standards. It would be a pleasant outing if all world leaders sat down to offer each other heartfelt apologies for what sometimes went wrong hundreds of years ago or even longer. It would soon turn into a 'yes but you people have…' cockfight. Although I have nothing against apologies being offered to victims of any inhumane act that are still alive. More important, however, is to learn from past mistakes, 'never again'.
The best we can do is where there are still people walking around with alleged blood on their hands before a tribunal so that justice can take place, reunification and work towards a better future for us all. All of this is, to put it mildly, more than a challenge… but without ideals we will get nowhere. Above all, let us work together towards a dignified future.
Dear Rob and Peter,
Rob writes:
"The best we can do is to get people to tribunal where there are still people with alleged blood on their hands so that justice can be done."
Even today, people who have blood on their hands live from “our” colonial life. Crimes are often committed in the name of the government. Do you still have to prosecute those people who are on their last legs? That is why it would be to the government's credit to offer an apology. Apologizing is part of reconciliation. I myself have Indonesian relatives who had to flee from their own country because of the consequences of Dutch policy in those colonial years and the struggle for freedom during the transition. For many reasons, I am in favor of apologizing as part of reconciliation.
And Peter, I'm not talking about the 80 years war or any other war from the distant past. And if that "different realization" is reason not to apologize for relatively recent actions by possibly our own grandparents, then I find that reprehensible.
On the other hand, apology comes after repentance. Without repentance, apology means nothing.
Dear Frans, as long as an alleged criminal is still alive, prosecution is in order. Even if in practice that would result in a symbolic conviction if someone is found guilty and has at most a few months or years to live.
As for apologies ditto, if the witnesses are still walking around (or their children) then a heartfelt apology is in order. Even if the debt is not one-sided. For example, the Netherlands has to apologize for various misdeeds during 'police' actions, but Indonesia also has inhabitants who have done inhumane things. apologies would serve them just as well. The fact that some people or authorities have a notorious 'don't apologize never' attitude should of course not be an excuse for the other party to ignore it.
If we switch to fees and so on, the water quickly becomes very cloudy or even a wasp's nest. Actually, the parties can only solve this if it takes place within a reasonable time after the established crimes. I leave that to the international world stage which is the right way.
Dear Rob,
What you write is only partly true. “The Resistance” of the Dutch during the German occupation also committed acts that could be labeled as crimes. But I don't hear about that.
What matters is under whose authority it takes place. If crimes are committed under Dutch authority, it is up to the Dutch authority to apologize for this. This does not exonerate the actual perpetrator, but in the first instance the responsibility lies with the authorities.
The Indonesian freedom fighters cannot be blamed. They stood up against the occupation of their country, just as the Dutch resistance did against the occupation of the Netherlands by the Nazis and also during the 80-year war against the Spaniards, if we go back a little further.
My father was arrested in 40-45 and put to work in Germany, because all Germans had to go to the front. My mother had to figure out how to feed her children. That was also a crime. Who was responsible for that. Right, those people were punished as far as they could be caught. But the responsible was Hitler.
Therefore Rob, Apologies from the Dutch government is completely separate from the trial of individuals.
That is why I think that the Dutch government should apologize to Indonesia. I am convinced that if the Dutch government had done that, we would have had much better relations with Indonesia than we do now.
Just one more comment. Why should the Indonesian government apologize? During the “Police Actions” there was no Indonesian authority to be held responsible for the misdeeds of individuals. They were freedom fighters, just like the resistance in the Netherlands.
Interesting article and much appreciation for this, but do Tino and Rob still feel safe when they travel to Thailand? The junta will certainly not appreciate this form of publicity.
Fear reigns among the common people in Thailand.
That's why everyone here shut up.
And that does not only happen at the government level .
In my immediate vicinity, the dogs of a local senior official have bitten to death some young pigs.
The owner of the pigs has not received any compensation.
A few weeks later a villager was also bitten by one of the dogs to the hospital etc, same story here again.
People are just afraid to take steps against higher characters because of reprisals.
I hope that the youth who are becoming more and more assertive can ensure that this can change .
The latest protest rap song by a Thai group Rap against dictatorship, which has become popular among young people, already shows how young people think.
Among other things, I already see that young people who race around on their souped-up mopeds no longer have any fear of the police.
Jan Beute.
Somewhat few reactions, but I hope that a good number of readers have taken note of the piece and who knows, made them think.
Dear Rob, that there are few reactions, I think it also has to do with a kind of fear.
People want to live here in Thailand in peace, so without creating problems.
Many are already happy when they get their visa extension done for another year every year.
And Big brother is watching you, certainly also applies here in Thailand.
But bloggers like me who live in the countryside between, say, ordinary Thai people know how people think about things here.
Jan Beute.
Dear Jan, I am an optimist but in this case I think that is only part of the explanation. I'm afraid there are also a lot of readers who think 'as long as I have my wet and dry'. I had expected a reaction from the 'we are here guests' camp.
Dear Rob,
I am particularly interested in the political, economic and social relations in Thailand and I try to contribute to a fairer and more democratic Thailand. I read these kinds of articles with great interest.
But… I don't know exactly how paranoid the current rulers are and how much resources they want to spend on this paranoia, so I self-censor. I do not want to risk the possibility of a residence permit by being too outspoken with regard to the current government and head of state. I noticed that the moderator also censors critical comments. I think it's pretty special that this report was posted.