For quite some time I toyed with the idea of ​​writing a story about sex in Thailand. Always a popular topic, also on this blog. Not strange, because nothing human is foreign to the expat. But not a story about Pattaya, the go-go bars, ladyboys, tomboys, the entertainment districts in Bangkok, the gay saunas or the karaoke bars in the countryside. No. A story about thinking about sex and marriage in Thai society, and the changes therein.

There must always be a reason for me to delve into a certain subject. In this case, the basic reason is my amazement at what I see and hear in my own environment. Let me give a few examples:

  1. my (divorced) neighbor has three sex (love?) relationships and also a few casual contacts. Those loose contacts in my condo building have led to many quarrels and a few divorces. The three men are all married;
  2. Thai men who threaten their wife or gig with violence if she wants to leave him while he is "cheating" in our terminology;
  3. Thai women who constantly move out of fear of their ex-husband and take a new telephone number;
  4. a top Thai politician who – as a member of the advisory board – scans the overview photos of new female students at a private university to assess which young lady(s) he would like to have as a new sex toy, of course at a very attractive price periodic payment with a one-off luxury car;
  5. famous, sexy Thai actresses (married and unmarried) who spend exorbitant amounts of money per day (and night) 'hanging out with' men from the international jet-set;
  6. wealthy Thai men in a bar offering increasing amounts to a Thai lady for sex services until she finally succumbs to the money;
  7. sex and relationships (mia-noi, gig) between partners from a limited network of politics, military, business world, not primarily for the sake of sexual pleasure but much more for the forging of mutual, closer and emotional ties and for information exchange (a soft form of espionage). In the upper classes in Thailand, there are children who live with parents, one of whom is not the biological parent. And the other parent knows that. And that child will also hear that later: I would like to call them socially legitimized bastards.

With Thai eyes

I think you can easily add to this list of examples yourself from your own Thai environment or if you read the Thai press daily. And that comes out because it is illegal (sex with minors, trafficking in women, linking it to drug trafficking or corruption) or if someone flips out as happened two years ago with a 30-year-old male bachelor Thai movie star. A photo of him appeared on Facebook with a bare leg of the lady he had spent the night with. At first he denied it in all tones but after a few days he came on TV with his mother crying (really) and told it was true.

He'd had sex and wasn't married, so he'd been naughty. The fact that as a wealthy bachelor he might do that weekly (perhaps leave that out, I think), is irrelevant. Now it was public. And this is really just the tip of the iceberg. I can already hear you thinking: all disgusting, double standard (aka hypocrite) and decadent. But then you judge too quickly and too much from a Western perspective.

A perspective that starts from the thinking of the Thais says the following. When it comes to sex, masculine, macho-like behavior is more important, more valued, more accepted than feminine behavior. As long as the guy takes good care of his mia-noi and his gig, he's more or less forgiven for having them. I get the impression in the cases I personally experience that it is worse for the 'cheated' wife that her husband gives another woman money (and she does not know exactly how much and how much she therefore misses every month) than that he has sex with her has. Men are hunters, after all.

Concubines

I know, this is changing under the influence of the Western world, but also in the Western world the married man who has a girlfriend or mistress is not always approached negatively. Examples include the undisclosed mistresses of French presidents Mitterand, Chirac and most recently Hollande. Chirac even wanted to share a suite in a luxury hotel with his mistress, the movie star Claudia Cardinale, when he was on a state visit to Thailand, but that was going too far for the Thai government or perhaps international protocol.

But also royal highnesses (past and present) are not real role models when it comes to monogamous marriage relationships: Prince Bernhard, King Juan Carlos, Prince Albert (Monaco), King Albert (Belgium), Prince Charles, Lady Di. What else applies to all royal highnesses (Middle East, Asia, Africa) who are Muslim because as a Muslim they can/may be married to more than 1 wife.

Polygamy

Being able to be married to more than 1 woman was still valid in Thailand until 1935, when polygamy was banned by law. This means that some older Thais (from the higher social classes) may still remember that their father legally had more than 1 wife. And Thai kings also had more wives in the past and consequently a large number of children. For example, King Mongkut married when he was 47 and at the end of his life (in 1868) had 32 wives and 82 children. And we are not talking about the Middle Ages here, but about the 19th century, about 150 years ago.

Children of King Mongkut

It is therefore not surprising that an English diplomat in Bangkok at the time lamented that 'the king was not well able to rule because he was exhausted by women, stress and drugs'. The enactment by the Thai king of the law that banned polygamy took quite some effort. On the one hand, the king had to be convinced that polygamy was barbaric, uncivilized and an expression of the lack of control over sexual urges. Several kings were sensitive to this criticism because they wanted to be taken for granted in the West. However, the elite did not want this. She even found the discussion about polygamy critical of the course of events at court. You could say a form of lèse-majesté.

The critical remarks therefore did not come from the Thai elite, but from outsiders, in particular Western diplomats and missionaries. The Western, romantic ideal of love played a not insignificant role. Thailand, Western diplomats claimed, would not be considered a civilized world until polygamy was outlawed. A form of forcing Western values ​​and norms on the Thais, isn't it?

Finally

I have not written this posting to encourage you (as an expat or future expat) to commit what we in the West have come to call adultery. You just have to do and keep doing what you feel most comfortable with (with or without a partner or partners). Well, to show you the relative nature of the romantic marriage ideal (between two partners with the exclusion of sex with others: the current Western model, which, however, shows considerable cracks; I don't have to tell you that). This ideal is neither the ideal nor the norm of the majority of the world's population and, in my firm conviction, will not become one. Just look around in countries like India, Japan, South Africa and Thailand. There is more under the sun and in the bedroom than sex with the same partner. Some in this world are thinking about officially marrying their sex doll or their robot man or woman, I recently read. So don't be surprised (for the future) about anything. And if you are monogamous and want to remain: realize that you belong to a minority on this planet.

Source: Leslie Ann Jeffrey (2007): Sex and Borders: gender, national identity and prostitution policy in Thailand.

16 Responses to ““Is adultery natural? Of course, of course….” (Fons Jansen, Conference 'The Electricians')”

  1. Tino Kuis says up

    Quote:
    'The critical remarks therefore did not come from the Thai elite, but from outsiders, in particular Western diplomats and missionaries'
    Some nuances.

    There were also many critical remarks about polygamy from the side of the Thais in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. I mentioned that here:
    https://www.thailandblog.nl/geschiedenis/veelwijverij-was-thailand-gewoon-hof-en-bourgeoisie/

    What you describe is mainly a situation in the 'higher' circles and much less with the rest of the population. You can read here that there has always been a considerable separation in Thailand between the elite and the 'common' people in cultural aspects regarding sex and marriage:
    https://www.thailandblog.nl/geschiedenis/man-vrouw-verhoudingen-zuidoost-azie/

    It's a bit like Japan. Ian Buruma describes in his book 'The Mirror of the Sun Goddess', 1984, the marriage customs of the Japanese. Marriage was based on status, money and power. Good sex and intimacy were sought outside the door. But then on p. 51 this curious phrase:
    'This was different for the farming population, which was by far in the majority. They often married for love.'

    Sometimes I'm afraid you, Chris, are too high up. Thai men are world champions in cheating, but few can afford a real 'gig', let alone one with an expensive car.

    • vdm says up

      My Thai wife regularly has to mediate with family. And usually it works out. We don't have that culture in Belgium

    • chris says up

      The men who have gigs who live in my condo building (maximum rent per room 4.500 Baht) are: police officer, car mechanic (2*), self-employed person (sells computers), pilot and market vendor. Well, not really the upper social class. This concerns amounts of 20 to 40 thousand Baht per month.

      • BA says up

        Gig and Mia Noi aren't quite the same either (as you no doubt know)

        The gig is more about casual sex, which does not always involve a fee. There are women in Thailand aged 30+ who are single, have a job and, apart from working, sit alone in their room, hardly get around to anything. If an attractive man comes along, treats them kindly, takes them out for dinner, etc., they often take it for granted that the man in question is married because they like to have fun themselves.

        With the Mia Noi there is more of a real relationship in which the man also (partially) maintains the Mia Noi. Condo rents, etc. Often these are women who are really after a mia noi relationship, not so much for casual sex. They find it easy that a man takes care of their life and if he also performs in bed, then that is only a plus. If he doesn't, they often have a gig themselves.

  2. Joseph says up

    This chaste, good and monogamous young man has learned a lot again. Think that many sinners do not enter the 'Kingdom of Heaven' but are sent directly to hell. The question remains for me what is a 'gig'?

    • rori says up

      a very nice thing.
      a desert.
      a doll
      a side line
      An…..

    • Rob V says up

      กิ๊ก [gik] – partner for casual sex; fuck buddy
      Source: http://thai-language.com/id/141986

  3. RuudRdm says up

    As far as I have experienced and experienced, there is absolutely no other marriage or love morality in Thailand than, for example, in the Netherlands. An acquaintance of ours lived with a friend, had a daughter with her, they separated because he had a child with another woman, and he continued to provide alimony to his first girlfriend and child. Of course, such a situation also occurs in Thailand, but then the emphasis would be on the alleged infidelity, adultery and immorality. Imaging, that's what it's called.

    The husband of an acquaintance of my wife called it quits after years of marriage and thought for a while that she should have a girlfriend. This girlfriend turned out to be of the same stature and age as his wife, so many people did not understand what he was looking for in her. But this aside: his daughter discovered that father was peeing next to the pot, her mother and father's mother-in-law signaled, and the three of them had father's ears thoroughly washed. This example is also from the Netherlands.

    If you are properly introduced to the Thai moeres, you will see that In Thailand things take place much more openly, the motives are much clearer, and relationship problems are much less kept indoors. While you would think shame hides. The Thai psyche is formed significantly differently, making it seem as if the cloak of love covers quite a bit. But why is it that quite a few (fatal) incidents make the news in Thailand that are based on jealousy?

    Mind you: a morality is always a reflection of views through the ages, and it is not feasible to test Eastern morality against that of the West. That arrogance is always there. Finally, I believe what Tino Kuis says: The majority of Thai people enter into relationships based on love choices.

  4. blackmail says up

    Those well-known group sex/meetings of mostly higher classes also aim to be able to commit blackmail later, if necessary. You call it espionage.
    That in itself marriage is concluded because of ranks / classes, so money and the "real" sex life gets its place outside, is actually more normal if you look at it on a global scale than that unreal romantic view that is emerging here. With farmers, etc., it was more common merchandise: the woman had to be able to cooperate well, just like the ox or the bull.

  5. ruud says up

    Adultery is not unnatural, just not always socially accepted.
    You also don't tell a lion that it is unnatural that he has several lionesses in his harem.
    So it has little to do with natural or unnatural.

    If a deadly disease were to emerge, affecting only men, killing a large segment of the population, relationships with multiple women could well become the "natural" standard.

    • Fontok says up

      Yes, you can talk like that! Don't agree. A lion is an animal. We are humans and can think rationally. And that deadly disease that only affects men is really not coming.

      • Stefan says up

        Right, we humans, distinguish ourselves from animals. But come from animals. Some of our behavior can be explained "animal". Although there are many who try to justify their immoral behavior with this.

        The nuance of “can” rational thinking is very correct. We “can” but many don't.
        Someone who buys a car usually knows very well which brand is reliable and durable. But the “senses” usually buy another brand, with expensive options, with a powerful engine, etc.

        Let us conclude that man is still evolving.

      • French Nico says up

        Man is no more than a civilized (mammal) animal.
        The lack of laws again makes man an uncivilized animal, a barbarian.

        And the Leo? A lion fights to the death for a lioness and, after its victory, kills all the lioness's offspring. The lioness then allows herself to be impregnated by her new partner. Nature or no nature?

  6. Rob V says up

    I had to laugh at the sentences about Chirac and his mistress, but that this was not according to protocol. I immediately thought of a well-known Thai who flew to Japan with his mistress but that the Japanese did not go along with it, then there was something about blocking a runway in protest…

    As for adultery, the Thai I speak to (mostly female, around 30 like me, middle class) won't tolerate it. It is therefore difficult for me to imagine that with the ordinary Thai who have outgrown the experimental phase as young people (teenagers, early twenties) and come into a stable relationship, adultery is really committed in large numbers by maintaining gigs, mia nois (conjunctions) , samee nois (second men) etc.

    If you both get your money's worth mentally and physically in a relationship, there's little reason to pee outside the pot. That has quite a few consequences when it comes out: the relationship will probably break down, you or your partner will run away and that is not really a pleasant scenario…

    However, I can imagine that in the upper classes or among youthful Thai, this is all more common for the reasons you mention: influence, experimentation, no longer being able to resist the temptation of big money, etc.

  7. Ronny Cha Am says up

    What few people talk about and know about, and it is so important, is that every human being and animal has an instinct here on earth to reproduce itself. In men, this becomes even more apparent in old age because the human brain knows that its production capacities are diminishing as it ages.
    It is therefore, dear men, perfectly normal that there is a significant increase in interest in several women in order to realize the instinctual reproduction. That is also the reason that many expats come to live “here” in Thailand, because the offer of women to respond to natural urges is much easier and cheaper.
    This knowledge should be explained to the Thai ladies from an early age, that it must be socially acceptable that the husband sometimes skates crookedly. There would be fewer divorces and fewer single young women who now bear the brunt of their jealous behavior.

    In the “civilized world” values ​​have been forced upon us by religious units about how we should live and behave…these are just unnatural.

    • Tino Kuis says up

      I also have a message for women.

      Dear Women,

      Your husbands are undoubtedly very nice men, but not very suitable for procreation. Their seed is very old. Find some other young, strong, powerful, intelligent, and handsome men to father offspring with. Tell your husband that this is biologically and evolutionarily correct, but that you still love him very much. Good luck!

      A real man.

      PS You can also look for a sperm donor!


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