Dutch state pensioners in Thailand
At the beginning of this month, the Social Insurance Bank (SVB) announced in its 2018 annual report that 290.909 of their customers currently live abroad. That is approximately 8% of the total number of people receiving an AOW pension from the SVB.
Where do these “foreigners” live?
The majority of AOW recipients abroad live in our neighboring countries, Belgium and Germany. Other countries where many people entitled to state pension live are Spain, Turkey and the United States.
Top 15 state pension countries
The list of the Top 15 countries where Dutch state pensioners live is as follows:
- Belgium: 65.594
- Germany: 47.211
- Spain: 44.905
- Turkey: 23.232
- United States: 16.134
- Canada: 14.237th
- France: 13.993
- Australia: 12.817
- Morocco: 12.748
- Great Britain: 11.945
- Italy: 7.185
- Switzerland: 5.509
- Portugal: 5.374
- Curacao: 5.038
- New Zealand: 4.627
State pensioners in Thailand and surrounding countries
Perhaps like you, I was interested to know how many state pensioners live in Thailand. To obtain information about this, I contacted the SVB. Soon the answer came and I can add to the list of countries. Lisa Simons of the SVB gave me the data not only from Thailand, but also from neighboring countries. She messaged me:
“There are 1607 people entitled to state pension in Thailand, 63 in Vietnam, 15 in Cambodia and 209 in Malaysia. Few people who are entitled to a pension live in Burma and Laos. In any case, these numbers are so small that I cannot share them for privacy reasons.”
So, we know that again. I can't tell you where Thailand is in the ranking after the top 15 countries, but it won't be very high.
Number work
I did some math. If the number of AOW beneficiaries abroad is almost 300.000 and moreover amounts to 8% of the total number of AOW beneficiaries, then that total is approx. 3.600.000, or more than 20% of the Dutch population of 17 million is entitled to AOW.
If I now apply the same calculation to those 1607 state pensioners in Thailand, you could conclude that the Dutch population in Thailand is over 8.000. Of course not right, or is it? Well, just assume, because data for a better calculation does not exist!
Good to read this and thanks for this list. There are, of course, also a number of pre-retirement people and expats and other emigrants who reside in Thailand. But the fact that there are so few AOW beneficiaries in Thailand is not surprising given the current exchange rates. It is no longer possible to live on the old-age pension alone, because immigration is unrelenting. You have to bring in almost 65.000 euros for 2000 baht per month. It is apparently the case that all state pensioners are checked in Thailand for unlawful cohabitation, because there is still some money to be made from that, I think. Or is this not too bad and can this control form actually be called disproportionate. The tax money of the less fortunate certainly matters and those checks can be justified for that, the invitees will say. No, for peace of mind, some are better off staying in Europe. Also warm countries and beaches and you can also maintain health costs and other tax measures.
I will undoubtedly be beaten down by some decency rascals, but when I see that in total some 36.000 Turks and Moroccans receive AOW, many of whom have paid very little contributions because their salary was low, and receive the full pound or benefit over approx. 30 years, why then does SVB care about chasing those few old Dutch people in Thailand to see whether or not they have a partner (who usually earn less than EUR 200 a month, if they already have a job have) with Gestapo practices and intimidation. Or should we be put away in a nursing home, where I don't want to be found dead, at huge costs and a shower and clean underpants or diaper once a week?
I stayed 1 x a few days after an operation in an old hotel that was hired by WVZ or whatever it may be called and I fled. Took a taxi and paid for a hotel room myself where the staff were not smoking heavy tobacco and were interested in their "customer" as opposed to the "loving sisters" of the government. My clothes still smelled like smoke after a week.
How many non-corrupt inspectors are sent to those countries each year to count toothbrushes?
And don't come back with that pathetic story that they helped build our country. The Netherlands has become rich because of the natural gas that was sold by an economist from Buitenveldert at a fixed price of 1,5 ct/m3 for an unlimited period of time in a contract with Italy. If we had real economists, like old Winsemius, we would have had such a big buffer, just like Norway, that we wouldn't have to worry about this nagging and send men and women all over the world to spy on us.
Quote:
"I will undoubtedly be beaten down by some decency rascals, but when I see that in total some 36.000 Turks and Moroccans receive state pension, many of whom have paid very little contributions because their salary was low, and receive the full pound or benefit over approx. 30 years…..',
1 the vast majority do not receive the full price, but relative to the number of years they lived in the Netherlands. So most of them 50-60%. I get 80%.
2 Turks and Moroccans who now live and work in the Netherlands pay premiums for all state pensioners at the moment. Be grateful.
3 the law applies to everyone. I'm not going to put you down, but it's a pity that you bring Turks and Moroccans into this subject. Why not Belgians and Germans who lived in the Netherlands for many years?
a) then all fossil fuels were much cheaper. Oil did not rise above US$ 1974 per barrel until AFTER the Yom Kippour war, 10.
b) The Dutch government was then convinced that within 20-30 years all energy would be supplied by nuclear reactors, so that natural gas had to be sold as soon as possible before it would become virtually worthless. see https://www.fluxenergie.nl/pvda-joop-uyl-hield-nationalisatie-gronings-gas/?gdpr=accept
If only we had then… there was now a much smaller CO2 problem, the Sheiks and Ayatollahs were as poor as desert hares and Putin + Maduro had nothing to say.
Dear Dick41, you are making a major fallacy regarding paying premiums to lower-earning fellow human beings.
There are both Dutch and foreigners, who have been useful to the community with their work for years with a small amount of merit.
Cohabitation, however unreasonable it may sound, is not dependent on the partner's income, either in the Netherlands or anywhere else in the world, but on the fact that it is cohabitation.
In short, the AOW is a social insurance, which, apart from people who are unable to do so for health reasons, is also paid to people who have refused to work for half or all of their lives.
Only the country of residence, the Netherlands, entitles the employee to 2% of the state pension that must ultimately be collected from the working community each year.
Hence it is not surprising to those who think a little further that the S:VB tries to control this community expenditure everywhere.
If this were maintained otherwise, the hardworking in the Netherlands would eventually have to pay even more and play for a kind of social insurance for the world.
Before you jump out of your skin even further: Those who have returned to their home countries in Turkey and Morocco will of course NOT receive a full state pension – they will enjoy the pension of 2% per year that they have built up in their sweat in the Netherlands.
This means that if they have worked in the Netherlands for 25 years, they will receive only 50% of the AOW, often reduced by 20% because the wife is not yet 66.
You are the only phatoen rascal here.
Dear Dick
Your question is why people are so concerned about the aow Dutch people abroad and not about all the aow Turks and Moroccans in the Netherlands, because people in this Rutte government have more charm for our "new Dutch people" than for the Dutch who are always hard have worked to make this country great and prosperous.
Which Dutchman has always worked hard to make his country large and prosperous? I think that almost everyone has worked very hard to provide enough income for themselves and their families. No one went to work thinking of strengthening his homeland…
There have probably been a few people who saw the connection and ensured that the Netherlands had something to do with certain economic and political decisions, but that too is mainly for profit and not for patriotism.
Do you think you have done that, I wonder why you live in Thailand and spend most of your money there and not in the Netherlands to keep the country great?
You hit the nail right on the head, and then that fraud with your own property in the country of origin, which should be reported and did not happen, that check is too cumbersome and too difficult, they claim, but they can check 10.000 km away. Dare to say that no one has any right with whom the expat or farang lives with on benefits or the like, but apparently they are concerned about that in Holland, but not about the fraudsters.
Replying to Dick41 sorry
OR deposit a THB 800k as guarantee
Incidentally, I find the argument of “health costs” much more valid. € 100 billion for 17,2 million Dutch people (figures 2018) = € 5814 per head per year, from baby to dying elderly..
As a first approximation, your estimate is useful.
I can certainly make two additions.
1 Minors do occur in the Dutch population, but few among the Dutch in Thailand.
2 There are many Dutch people who stay in Thailand for more than six months, but who remain registered in the Netherlands for certain reasons.
As far as Canada, US, Australia and New Zealand are concerned, I can thus provide an explanation for the relatively large number of state pensioners. In the 50s and 60s there was a large exodus of Dutch people in search of a better future in these countries. Since the state pension accrual started in 1956, it seems to me that many live there with only a few years of accrual and this is now being paid out. So the overview is about numbers but there is nothing about the height; even 1 year in the Netherlands entitles you to an AOW benefit.
I am actually convinced that the population of Dutch people in Thailand is not as divided by age as the population of Dutch people in the home country. There are undoubtedly relatively more pensioners here who live here permanently, and then I leave out the 'snowbirds'.
That 8000 is therefore on the richly high side, I think. I keep it at 5.000-6.000. The number of Dutch children receiving Dutch lessons here in Bangkok can be counted on the fingers of two hands……….
Seems to me that most Dutch people live outside of Bangkok. And I myself am in my fifties in Thailand with 2 young children who also have Dutch nationality and live outside Bangkok, look then you already have a better picture. Completely unnecessary for them as far as Dutch lessons are concerned, because English and Thai first. And then preferably Japanese and Chinese as far as I'm concerned. These are the languages that you can use internationally and also in Thailand.
Is there still such a thing as a relationship with the Netherlands if you have never lived there and do not speak the language?
Had a student in my class a few years ago who was Thai but couldn't converse well in Thai with his fellow students because he had lived all his life in the USA. He could not write or read Thai. He started Thai lessons at the age of 20.
Why then the Dutch nationality? What is Dutch about YOU (not about your father)?
And: I don't know if most Dutch people live outside of Bangkok? Intuitively, I would say that most retirees live outside Bangkok and the younger Dutch (who work or study) often live in the cities, especially Bangkok. But have never seen figures, but base that on reaction of Dutch people on the internet and the population of members of Dutch expat associations. In the photos you see almost exclusively the elderly in Hua Hin and Pattaya, in Bangkok families with children and young people. For what it's worth.
Not all state pensioners are checked. Only those registered as single. There are also people who are married and live here and therefore do not need to be checked.
is not true, I am married and I am also checked by the SVB, twice already
you are mistaken in any case, married people must prove that they are still alive by legalizing a life certificate. So also a form of control.
I thought it was obvious that I was responding to Jacques comment about unlawful cohabitation. It seems to me unproductive to check married people whether they wrongly receive a single person's benefit. It goes without saying that every AOW pensioner who is alive must have his statement legalised. But that's a whole different kind of control. You must report yourself to your SSO office. And I think this is a very logical check that serves to prevent fraud and is therefore not something to fall off your chair.
My Dutch father passed away 3 years ago.
I live in Thailand with my Thai mother
and we still receive my father's state pension.
How's that going?
My mother works at the SSO!
This makes it very easy to fill in such a form .
The Netherlands is one of the richest countries in the world.
Then they can raise the few cents for us .
Toto@People who find it exaggerated that the SVB carries out checks here and there can, as far as your story speaks the truth, thank your mother's criminal institution, and your highly disapproving opinion that the Dutch state is so rich that they be able to continue paying incorrectly.
Between the lines I read a pride in your response, where a deep shame would have been more appropriate.
Well, really something to be proud of. In any case, you immediately make it clear to everyone why checks are necessary.
We now have to wait for the SVB to be informed of abuse by an SSO employee or maybe people will read along with this. The next step will be that everyone will therefore have to go to the embassy in the future thanks to a corrupt SSO employee.
You can also get a certificate of life from a Notary public for 3000 baht.
Then you don't have to go to the Embassy.
Whether every notary is honest and not corrupt is another story.
@Toto
If this is indeed the case then your response is not smart.
Whether it concerns fraud in the Netherlands or Thailand does not matter much if they can filter out your mother. Both the SVB and the SSO are disadvantaged by such an action and that does not make both authorities happy.
But be happy, your mother and you are not the only ones in Thailand with such a naive mentality.
I grabbed my reading glasses and indeed, the message from that Toto is not from April 1….
I don't believe it one iota either. The life certificate must be signed by the person himself and ONE writing expert at the SVB is enough to find out about the fraud. And then someone comes to see Toto and his mom and his mom can go to jail for fraud and pay everything back and enjoy the disgrace of the community…..
So let's get down to business...
Well Erik , do you think that a writing expert looks at all those forms ?
How much SSO do you have in Thailand and how many women work there?
You don't start much with the name Toto,
when he has broken a pseudonym and not his real call sign .
I also copied my mother's signature for school before
and no one noticed!
This story just shows that SVB checks are very useful
in a country like Thailand where corruption is rampant .
You can also bribe an inspector.
On the story of Toto is true – that all Toto knows!
Married and cohabiting Dutch people in my area were checked by the SVB last year.
My German friends fell off their chairs when I told them about this phenomenon
Five years as a single person with state pension
lived in pattaya on 3 different
addresses have never been out of control
heard or seen.
Well every year at sso it by svb
sent proof of life
legalize and through the internet again
return that's it
In this blog at the end of 2016, an employee of the embassy in Bangkok stated that the number of registered Dutch citizens in Thailand is between 20 and 25 thousand people. And those are not the tourists.
With such a small number of AOW pensioners, this means a large number of people under the AOW age who have a pension or are on their own, plus those seconded to government and industry, plus people with a work or study permit, and their NL partner and/or children.
Here it is: https://www.thailandblog.nl/van-de-redactie/volgens-ambassade-25000-nederlanders-thailand/
There are about 25.000……….
Perhaps the number is exaggerated by the embassy in order to be able to claim more personnel capacity from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in The Hague?
The ambassador has a monthly chat here so why not ask?
Well,
With the flood of 2011, the embassy asked every Dutch person to register online who is in Thailand, so that people can be traced more quickly.
Many have long since left, but have not opted out. Well then you have many, many Dutch people in Thailand.
Firstly, I don't understand the calculation of 8000 Dutch people. And why will I explain to you. There would then be 5 x 23.232 Dutch people living in Turkey. I do not think so. I think you have to judge per country what kind of Dutch people live there. In Curacao it is almost only pensioners who live there. And what do you think of 25.000 Dutch people in Thailand. Too many? I've removed it from this site for convenience.
https://www.thailandblog.nl/van-de-redactie/volgens-ambassade-25000-nederlanders-thailand/
Among 1607 AOW pensioners in Thailand, there are also about a hundred with Thai nationality, because they have simply worked in the Netherlands.
The total number of the 15 countries is 290.549 and if you add the 3 other countries, you get 292.234. Then there are a few people in Laos and Burma who cannot be mentioned due to privacy ??? Numbers have nothing to do with privacy, because if that were the case, no numbers would be allowed here at all.
How do I get this, just use calculator so number in article is already wrong.
What is the reason for this, incorrectly reported by SVB? Type error?
If you have read the reports about the tax authorities and the UWV lately, you will of course understand that a lot goes wrong with the government, so why not also with these figures.
Perhaps you should check with SVB about the exact numbers?
@Tom Bang: the numbers you mention therefore relate to 15 + 3 countries.
Do you have any idea how many countries there are in the world and can you imagine that people entitled to state pension also live in all those other countries?