How many Dutch people in Thailand?
When I recently decided to pay some attention to the Dutch elections for a new parliament, I thought it would be interesting to see how the Dutch in Thailand deal with those elections.
However, I had no idea how many Dutch people in Thailand would exercise their right to vote, in fact, I also searched in vain for decent information about the total number of Dutch people living in Thailand – temporarily or otherwise.
During my visit to the polling station at the Dutch Embassy, I was told that approximately 370 Dutch citizens had registered in The Hague in order to participate in the elections. In the posting about the voting results, you could read that in the end 332 valid votes were cast. The difference lies in the fact that the papers are not yet sent to the Embassy or that the ballot paper is filled in incorrectly (invalid). So you could say that the “turnout percentage” of the Dutch people ultimately entitled to vote in Thailand is approximately 90%.
So it only concerns a few hundred Dutch people who have taken the trouble to participate in the vote. Is that a lot or a little? How many Dutch people from Thailand could have participated, in other words how many Dutch people live - for a short or longer stay - in Thailand? Unfortunately I couldn't find an answer to that question. Moreover, someone who knew in advance during Election Day could with holiday to be in Thailand, also register.
Dutch Associations
I've been hearing for years that there would be about 10 to 12.000, but there is no way to prove it. The Dutch Associations in Thailand (Bangkok, Pattaya, Hua Hin and Phuket) take as a rule of thumb that 10% of the Dutch people present are members of one of those departments. The total number of members is currently about 1500, so that 10 to 12.000 could be correct.
Registration Embassy
Dutch nationals residing in Thailand have the option of registering at the Embassy, so that information could be a good guideline. A demographic study in that file could provide interesting data. Forget it! In the first place, the information about those registered is not accessible to anyone and the data from this is only used in case of emergencies and calamities. In addition, anyone who stays in Thailand - for a (short) holiday or longer stay - can register, so whether and how many of the registered live in Thailand is not clear to that file either.
Immigration
Through the Thai Immigration you could determine the number of people with a Dutch passport entering and leaving Thailand. You will understand that this data is also not accessible and not reliable, because it would also lump tourists and expats together.
“Types” of Dutch people
Excuse the word kind, but which groups of Dutch people could you name in Thailand, I will name a few:
- expats (short stayers): Dutch people who are employed in Thailand by the business community, government or international organizations for a certain period of time (often 2 or 3 years).
- expats (long-term residents): Dutch people who have moved to Thailand for a longer period of time, sometimes permanently, to work or enjoy their retirement. You could also call it immigrants.
- tourists: Dutch people who spend their holidays – regularly or not – in Thailand.
Voting behavior
To analyze the voting behavior of those voters in Thailand, we look at these groups separately.
Short-stayers: usually people with a well-paid job, who also have a good relationship with the Netherlands. They will mostly vote VVD, D'66, so the number of voters from this group will be considerable, see the results.
Long-stayers: often the long-stayers have cut their ties with the Netherlands, for whatever reason. The enthusiasm to vote will therefore be considerably less. The PvdA and SP votes will mainly come from this group.
Finally,
My analysis, of course, amounts to nothing at all, they are only conjectures. Any other judgment or opinion may be good. Are those few hundred votes from Thailand then important for the final distribution of seats in the House of Representatives? Not really, but I think that as a Dutch person you should always use your democratic right to vote!
Yes, it is difficult to say how many Dutch people there are here. It is certain that only a fraction cast a vote. Still, it is probably enough votes to get a good reflection of voting behavior. Nevertheless, a striking result in Thailand, but also surprising elections in the Netherlands itself, at least I thought. It seems that in the Netherlands voters have moved from the flanks to two major parties, while in Thailand this is not or much less the case. I think the most striking thing is that D66 is the second party among the Dutch in Thailand.
Even more striking is that the PVV in the Netherlands has been hit hard and that the voting behavior of the Dutch in Thailand with regard to the PVV has remained virtually unchanged.
That in itself is also striking, but the PVV no longer surprises me very much in that respect… Two years ago there was talk of the curtain bonus, this time the reverse. PVV electorate is simply highly unpredictable.
I voted by proxy. That is not registered, as far as I know. At least, not that I, as the voter who empowered my sister, live in Thailand.
@Thaitanicc, the PVV electorate is indeed unpredictable, and therefore very similar to the PVV leader. Chance?
Chance? No, I do not think so. An apple doesn't fall far from the tree. And the PVV is the apple of Mr Wilders' eye. Still, I think its role is not over, because Europe will continue to be an issue in the years to come. And the truth about Europe is that it's good for about 60% of the Dutch, but for 40% it's not such a good thing at all. And he could benefit (electorally) from this, but then he would have to take a more serious approach or come up with well-considered plans…
For your information, I voted here in Thailand, live here and am also registered here. My wife also voted. She has Thai and Dutch nationality.
Well, the Netherlands does keep a fairly accurate record of who enters, but not who leaves (temporarily or otherwise). It is a pity that we do not know exactly who is leaving, where, why and for how long. Perhaps if you start puzzling with CBS figures (immigration/remigration in the Netherlands) and with the Thai immigration service (if you can already ask how many Dutch people stay in Thailand other than tourists with a 30-day visa) you may be able to get a good idea to get.
It is a pity that there is a lack of information, especially because the strangest claims are made about emigration (and sometimes also immigration), for example that emigrants from the Netherlands are mainly highly educated and elderly, both with a lot of capital or savings and, as it were, the Netherlands. "flee". But actually we don't know at all what kind of profile these people have (except what is stated in the GBA -Municipal Basic Administration-). The rule of thumb is that 2/3 of the migrants return to their country of origin after completing their work or studies.
It is also striking that the PVV is now the 3rd party in both Thailand and the Netherlands, so shared with the SP in the Netherlands.
Now I read AGAIN of an obligation, namely, I quote: “that as a Dutch person you must always make use of your democratic right to vote!”
Earlier I read that I MUST be able to speak Thai if I am an expat (and I am). I also MUST (be able to) sing along with the Thai blood-and-bodum anthem. And also the Dutch, by the way. And so I SHOULD much more. But, I think, what I MUST have is regulated in Dutch and Thai laws. That insofar as applicable with regard to what I can choose and have indeed chosen. And furthermore I think that I MUST behave in a reasonable way because there is also such a thing as (following from that reasonableness) a morality. All that other SHOULD is enforcing group behavior and enforcing group thinking. Is limitation and enslavement that I don't have to step into.
The impossibility of obtaining data anywhere about how many Dutch people live permanently in Thailand, or how many Dutch people live abroad, is illustrative of my idea that these Dutch people are not really taken seriously by the government.
Just like the elderly, a sought-after object for all kinds of measures that may be called incorrect, and perhaps even discriminatory, to say the least.
Under the motto, they can't defend themselves anyway.
And that is true, we just allow ourselves to be treated as second-class citizens.
Incidentally, which Nationalities live (semi) permanently in Thailand, it was stated in a list that at one point 6219 Dutch people reside here.
No, unfortunately, I wouldn't remember where I saw this list on the internet.
But I think it was an immigration website
Would have liked to vote. Could also be done by computer, but then you had to register in,
I meant in The Hague. I've been trying for days but it didn't work.
How many Dutch immigrants live here in Thailand should be easy in my opinion
to be found out. The tax authorities asked….in connection with tax exemption a
deregistration from my municipality, complete with country and address.
But they do have the obligation to deregister when they emigrate, right? So, perhaps thinking too logically, shouldn't the government be able to make a sum of everyone who has ever deregistered in NL, and is no longer registered, minus foreign deaths? Then I think you're pretty close.
Good thing you don't have to pay tax in NL if you work and live abroad (it is different for some other countries). If so, I guarantee that they could tell you exactly to the man how many Dutch people live abroad! 😉
In NL they know exactly how many Dutch people live in Thailand. My cousin works for the tax authorities, and they are even now going to take a hard line on the Dutch who own a home in NL but who live in Thailand. For example, people have to pay back the wrongly received mortgage interest , and the mortgage provider can suddenly claim the mortgage when renting out the house in NL due to too great a risk of poor maintenance etc by the tenants.