'More and more homeless western foreigners in Thailand'
The number of western homeless people in Thailand is increasing. The Thai government is not prepared for this social problem, aid organizations in Thailand warn, the Bangkok Post writes.
“We see many homeless foreigners who are separated from their Thai wives and have run out of money,” said Natee Saravari, secretary general of the Issarachon Foundation.
Foreigners are allowed to own condos, but houses and other properties are usually registered in the name of a spouse or girlfriend, meaning they have no rights and can be evicted.
A Thai charity, which has been helping mainly homeless Thai people in Chiang Mai, Chon Buri and Phuket for the past 10 years, has recently also started caring for homeless foreigners.
“In Pattaya, we see them sorting garbage in front of McDonald's so they can buy something to eat. And at the exit of the restaurant they beg for money,” says Natee. He estimates that more than 200 homeless foreigners live in Thailand. There are about 30.000 Thai homeless. "As many as 40 percent of Thai homeless people suffer from mental illness, but most foreign homeless people are alcoholics."
The foundation has urged the State Department to address this growing problem. The proposal is to warn foreign embassies and ask them to care about their nationals. Many western homeless people live in Thailand without a passport or an expired passport.
More and more Western retirees are settling in Thailand. This group has grown rapidly in recent years and that entails specific problems.
“A lot of legislation in Thailand that targets foreigners is outdated and needs to be revised,” said Buaphan Promphakping, an associate professor of social studies at Khon Kaen University. “Under current law, the rights of foreigners are not properly protected,” he says. Buaphan has researched the growing number of foreigners marrying Thai women from the Northeast of Thailand and the increasing number of Western retirees.
200 homeless foreigners throughout Thailand is not that much, but every (foreign) HOMELESS is 1 too many.
I do indeed think that the foreign embassies should help with this, whatever the reason may be that someone has become homeless or is drinking, I would find it outrageous if they do not care about their nationals.
Funny, everyone is always so socially engaged, but immediately points to someone else when it comes to actions. I don't think it's a job for the embassy. They are not social workers there. In addition, it must then be paid from Dutch tax money. Perhaps the expats in Thailand should roll up their sleeves to help their 'lost' compatriots?
Assume that these people have once paid taxes and may have worked their way up all their lives, I would have no problem with tax money being used for this, rather than it disappearing to Brussels and it doesn't matter who embassy/social workers or expats help them, these are people who don't let you rot.
Agree that you should not let people rot. But what do you do about it yourself? Or would you like to leave it to someone else? Each for himself and God for us all?
totally agree with Khun Peter. Why should the taxpayer have to pay for this? Usually the homeless themselves are to blame for their situation (mine is different and just pump money into it) and therefore no tax money needs to be spent on that. I saw them in Pattaya and they did nothing, absolutely nothing, to put an end to their situation. Solution: involve family and return to the Netherlands
I once saw a Farang sleeping in a corrugated cardboard box on Sukumvit. As black and dirty as a Morian. Found it difficult to approach him as he was probably drunk considering his bottle was next to him. Should I wake him up and ask his nationality? You're probably going to get hit in the face. You should know the cause before helping anyone. What if it's your own fault, fat bump? I'm very social, but not for a while.
I would like to contribute to this, no problem, I will already do that if, as you say, my tax money is also used for this, just donating money will not get you there. If someone has become homeless in another country, no longer has a passport and is drinking, it becomes an ordinary farmer. If it is very difficult for me to help such a person, I think this is a matter for politics, money is always available everywhere. given away, so why not help that handful of derailed compatriots.
The question is also do these people want to be helped or found? This topic has been discussed a lot on various blogs and Thailand forums and in some cases some of those bums even turned out to receive benefits from their country of origin.
I remember a story on Andrew Drummond's blog about a Brit who was chained up in his old rags and own feces in a cell in Pattaya. The man was apparently shizophrenic and had stopped taking his medication. A few Brits are that man came to the rescue and it turned out that the man was apparently from a very good background and had good money and now lives back in England and is back in good health.
I believe that if people blow up their bridges in their country of origin to start a new life there and everything goes wrong, then they are responsible for their own actions and not the embassy and not the taxpayer.
I think with a little common sense and some planning, situations like this can be avoided. I and other of my compatriots are not responsible for people acting like overaged teenagers abroad.
What prejudices, you only know if someone wants to be helped if you don't try first.
You will just be that one person out of two hundred homeless and absolutely can't help it, I mean the situation he's in.
Because the cause is not known, it might also happen to us, you never know.
You write it yourself the example of the Briton, shizophrenic and had stopped taking his medication, was this an overaged teenager? no this was a sick person!
No, to label these people as over-year-old teenagers is really going too far, is it true that bridges are blown up in the country of origin and are responsible for this, these people may have misjudged their dreams, but that is not yet a reason not to help them rebuild the blown bridges, and put their lives back on track.
And if this is at the expense of our tax money then so be it, what is money when it comes to people, if tax money is the biggest problem, then when this person gets his life back on track you would can have the costs incurred reimbursed through, for example, a payment arrangement.
Those homeless people can still go to their embassy and ask for help! It goes without saying that they need help. It could happen to anyone to end up in such a situation, even if you don't think so. Life is alive!!
Of course it is absolutely not nice to be homeless here, in whatever form and the cause of this is not discussed. Foreign homeless people don't belong here.
The Thai government should simply take these people off the street and return them one way to their country of origin. There they will be taken care of again and possibly family traced.
Who should pay that now, we all pay for our annual visa, so from that pot of money the homeless can be sent back, or if necessary I want to pay 500 baht per year more for visa so that this problem is solved.
It is also better for the foreigners who can live here well. If there are too many homeless people, sooner or later we will be confronted by the Thai government.
Uhm strange live in the Netherlands where we have a (much) bigger problem in terms of numbers with homeless people of all kinds. Various measures are taken here, which are paid for from 'our' tax money and to which the various father/mother countries of those persons do not pay a penny. Now there are also (Dutch) homeless people in Thailand and we have to help them with our tax money. I think the best exchange is that we will help the homeless 'fellow' Dutch people abroad and that all other countries will help their 'nationals' who are helped in the Netherlands with our tax money. Is our budget deficit getting smaller again?
The big problem is that Thai law does not have land and houses in the name of the falang
allows.
So let the falang put it in his lady's name.
If the relationship ends, the falang's rights are null and void.
This is how the problems arise, socially on the ground, no home anymore, little money and they start drinking.
Thailand has to change its law and 90 percent of the problems no longer arise
This phenomenon has been known for a long time, so my comment about the necessary planning and discipline when moving to a country like Thailand. Prepare for failure is preparing to fail.
Why do I and other people have to step in financially for guys who want to put their money into a business they don't own a majority stake in and then leave it to a wife or girlfriend who went to school until she was 10 or 12 and who doesn't know an iota of everything related to running a business.
Why should I feel sorry for guys who buy a house or villa in the name of the girlfriend or wife and then end up on the street.
These individuals know or I think knew very well that all the cards on the table in entering into these types of trades were against them.
I don't break my head anymore about why so-called adult western men who are sometimes much older than me still fall for these kinds of stories.
Moderator: You are chatting.
Dear Ton, you turn it around, and you blame the Thai government for the problems outlined. That way the fork is not on the stem, unfortunately for you. The root cause of homelessness and/or homelessness is often alcohol. As a result, other problems are no longer adequately responded to, or the problems are exacerbated. Fence of the dam, etc. The farang in Thailand knows the ins and outs when he goes on board with his Thailady. Don't grumble afterwards. Make sure you have your affairs in order, not just your bodily affairs.
If the falang is evicted from his home, he has not done his homework properly before emigrating to Thailand.
You can have your right of residence in the home and on the ground recorded.
Then no one can kick you out.
Indeed this is possible Ruud.
But imagine that a foreigner has a house in her name in her village somewhere in Isaan where her whole family also lives, those people can also get that foreigner out of there under "gentle" force and even if this is disputed before the court in Thailand would that person still want to live there in that village where there might be a very hostile attitude towards the Westerner.
You don't have to dispute anything in court, it's recorded at the land office.
As far as I have heard about the expulsion of the foreigner, the Thai people only speak of it as shame.
And yes, it is of course always difficult with family, wife and possibly children.
For example, are you going to kick the kids out of the house?
However, I am talking about the legal part.
Not being able to buy land by foreigners in Thailand is bound by law.
That does not mean that nothing can be bought. There are many ways. If people end up penniless on the street, it's their own fault. Love is blind for some and that's exactly what you have to watch out for.
If that Thai lady really wants a house in her name, give her a mortgage right away, higher than the purchase amount. You can set certain conditions in the mortgage deed. Have the mortgage deed registered at the land office.
So if people become homeless, destitute of their earned money, it is also the person's fault.
I know a number of people who have nothing and live on the generosity of others, I would say people who have nothing left here, give them a ticket and send them back to the Netherlands, there is a better shelter for them.
I personally find it a shame for the other foreigners to see that people have to eat out of the garbage, let alone foreigners.
Moderator: do not comment exclusively on each other, but on the article.
The problem is very easy to solve.
Pick up from the street, take to the IDC (immigration detention center) in Bangkok.
Make contact with embassies and that is the end of Thailand.
The homeless are off the streets. Embassies know where their nationals are staying.
They can offer help (except from the Dutch embassy, who come by once a month with 1 euros and wait for help (money) from family from the Netherlands) and send them back to their country of origin.
A problem is created that is not a problem.
If you have problems as a Dutch citizen (no money/ticket), the Dutch embassy will forward you to the IDC.
And then they wait for further developments.
Unless you have a guilty drug dealer with the press on your side,
then they run faster for you than Bolt.
Greetings Owan
It's not about pity, it's about compassion!
Prejudice, stereotypes, thinking in boxes, we are always very good at that in Holland and also here on this blog… judge your fellow man as he is, not as you see him.
It's about helping people from our society, whatever the reason may be that they ended up in these circumstances, through fault or not.
It's about a handful of people and the first thing they come up with is money, how much money will it be? … And then we have to worry about that little bit of tax money, with which we try to help our compatriots who have become homeless.
Moderator: Irrelevant text removed.
People in trouble should be helped, even if it is 'their own fault'. It is not the embassy's job.
I am a volunteer at Lanna Care Net (http://www.lannacarenet.org) in Chiang Mai helping foreigners in trouble. I do the Dutch and the medical 'cases'. There is a lot of (hidden) poverty and misery among foreigners in Thailand. This often manifests itself when they fall ill because many do not have health insurance. Many are also estranged from their families in the Netherlands. I've been through heartbreaking situations where every choice hurts.
It would be good if an organization like Lanna Care Net also existed in Pattaya-Bangkok-Hua Hin and in Isaan. Does anyone know if that's already the case? I'd like to know.
I live in Ubon Ratchatani and have the impression that you can expect the necessary help from the tourist police who may be busy here, there are various volunteers of different nationalities, including Dutch.
Of course there are relatively few expats here, we have a generally non-alcoholic meeting on Monday mornings and I think if there was any mention of a wandering foreigner that would definitely come up.
What does not happen today may be different tomorrow, here too the number of foreigners is increasing rapidly. In my opinion, any problem case that is prepared to accept help does not have to perish here and can even count on financial support from the "richer" socially committed expats.
You also know foreigners, who may be forced or consciously choose not to take out health insurance, which could lead to a distressing case in the long term.
Dear Tino, I agree with you that people in trouble should be helped (first). The causes and reasons for these problems can then be examined. (Although I'm always surprised how grown-up people with grown-up decisions let things get this far?) In that sense, you learn from the events instead of condemning the people behind them. Whether such a network exists here in Isan as yours in Chiangmai is unknown to me. There may be more responses from/about local initiatives. The extent of the problem(s) becomes a little clearer. Mrsgr. R.
Moderator: do not comment exclusively on each other, but on the article.
@,
There may well be drinking organs among the homeless, but I think we would be shocked when you hear the number of people who have been kicked out of their own home.
That is something that, in my opinion, the Thai government needs to change.
House and land cannot be in farang's name.
The reason for this, as I have heard, is that the Thai government wants to prevent the trading of farangs in the house/land.
Why not include a stipulation that the farang must own the house for at least 5 8 – or 10 years for me.
Then you immediately deprive all those "ATM wreckers" of the ammunition to get rich over someone else's back.
You shouldn't think about the money that the person has worked their ass off for, only to have it snatched from you in a jiffy.
And such a lady still insists on getting it in her name.
A kick in the ass and gentlemen, your danger of that moment has passed.
Louise
That all sounds very nice your argument, but you also know that it doesn't make sense. If someone no longer enters their home, it is not the fault of the Thai government. That is due to the actions of the Farang himself and the way in which he and his partner have shaped their joint relationship. Events that happen to people in these kinds of relationships please put into context. Whatever happens to the farang, you will achieve nothing if you continue to portray him as a victim. Leaving the responsibility with those involved is my motto.
And no one has gotten better from booze!
@louise,
Look up the translated version of the Thai National Anthem, then you might understand that Thailand will never allow foreigners to own land in Thailand.
I think the problem also lies with Thai embassies and consulates that all too easily issue visas to Piet Jan and Pol.
They should make the conditions stricter, such as requiring health insurance to live there and applicants to check their financial solvency more thoroughly. People who have to make ends meet from pension benefit to pension benefit and have no other financial resources at their disposal have no business there.
A few days ago a reader asked here how to extend his annual visa in Thailand, see answers from 2 members here: Reader 1: No problem, put a few thousand baht between your passport and you're done.
Reader 2 : I can email you the address of a visa run company in pattaya that can arrange paperwork for you at a cost proving you are financially solvent to apply for an extension of stay based on retirement.
I know that the Thai police and immigration have already closed down many of these visa run companies because of the kind of illegal practices as reader 2 managed to tell the questioner here.
The Thai National Anthem is of course also on thailandblog:
https://www.thailandblog.nl/maatschappij/het-thaise-volkslied/
Just off the top of my head: 'every inch of soil belongs to the Thais….'
Everyone has their own opinion about these people. A large part of these people (I deliberately do not call them homeless) have a serious mental illness at the root of their problem. I only feel sorry for these fellow people, and I am therefore not afraid to put their 1000 baths in their hands, and for all I care the lao kao will be worst to me. It strikes me that many people are always boasting about Buddhism, most of them don't understand a word of it.
Oh yes, I also know people who buy “she who is different” gold-filled fortuners and put houses in the name of she who is different, and after a while they lose everything, that kind of makes me laugh again!!!
Lord Peter,
Emphasizing again that you can laugh when other people get completely grounded, who first “get full of gold and buy Fortuners” I find below par.
Even smacks of jealousy.
It is very sad when someone loses everything and their own house is kicked out.
Although he himself is partly to blame for this and has not obtained enough information, that is no reason to laugh.
I think in the response somewhere above, that of that mortgage is a world solution, provided it is also properly recorded.
You would almost have large billboards installed at the airport, would save a lot of misery.
Louise
IF the homeless foreigners are drinking organs at all, the question must first be answered: is drinking the CAUSE of the homeless problem, or the CONSEQUENCE of the homeless problem…
The people have often gotten into trouble because of Thai law. As a result, they were forced to put their properties in the name of Thais and were later “picked” by them. It is time for the Thai government to protect the expets a bit better through legislation. A lot of problems - and the "picking" with a smile could then be avoided. Thailand is not that Expet friendly at all. They want the money, but they certainly don't want to give anything for it.
I just want to say this to refute the idea that Thailand is an anti-social country. A homeless foreigner without biting a satang will, if necessary, still be helped in a state hospital. The Suan Dok hospital in Chiang Mai is still owed 5.000.000 baht from foreigners who could not afford the care.