Questioner: Aduard
Subject: Annual extension through an “intermediary
Annual extension based on “Retirement” for 18.000 Thai baht, without financial obligations. I've been living in Thailand for almost 10 years now, all the time on a retirement year extension, not really a problem, but I honestly think that 800.000 baht separately in a savings account is unnecessary money in an account that you actually do nothing with.
Lately I've been thinking about this, why actually, you can do so many fun things with it, then just place it unused in a bank account somewhere.
Why this question.
Now the case is like this, at a certain point I got into a conversation with a man who had this easily arranged, this man paid annual money to have this arranged for him, no waiting times, his turn immediately, and within "no time" out again with a year extension.
This person asked 18.000 baht, say 1.500 baht per month, to arrange this for him, now I also plan to do it this way, “reason” you get older, you can just fall over, where is then your money is my question, what do you bloggers think about this?
Your opinion please.
Reaction RonnyLatYa
For me this is simple. I do not advise on illegal roads. Not even if it is with the cooperation of the relevant immigration office.
Know what you're getting yourself into. It usually goes well until it goes wrong. But everyone does what he thinks he should do.
Regards,
RonnyLatYa
why would you do illegal if you can do it legally
don't take a risk it can also go wrong I know people
who have had a lot of problems
I completely agree with RonnyLatYai's response. Dangerous game, I think.
By the way, what's wrong with money in a Thai bank account. If you find the interest on a regular savings account too meager, go for a term account or a special savings account or even a step-up account such as at Onsin bank where you don't even pay a withholding tax. Possibilities countless!
Why not ask for an income statement at the embassy, legally and properly
I've been using it for almost 15 years with no problem.
Getting older is no excuse
Arrange things? The worst advice you can get, don't do that
Greetings Wayan
Never start.
One can also do an income statement, possibly at the Dutch Embassy, then you do not have to have 800000 on a Thai account.
Hans van Mourik
In Isaan, I mention no city and no name. there was a 'farang' who would arrange everything neatly for his USA, his down-under and his English customers. He produced the income statements himself and paid good money for them. SUDDENLY the gentleman had disappeared to his home country. Possibly too hot under his feet?
If you hire someone to 'mess around' and that person falls through the basket, you suddenly no longer have an extension and no money for three months, so you can leave with your 'good' decency. If they don't arrest you for complicity...
If your only reason is 'where will my money go if I fall over' then go to a doctor for a proper examination and make a will. Besides, once in your coffin money is your last concern, isn't it? Your last shirt has no pockets, Aduard!
So stay away from that is my advice.
Hello Aduard, I know a lot of people who do the visa through an intermediary, they have no problems at all so far, can Dutch people who just do it at the immigration office in Pattaya, they don't even pay 18000 but even 12000, don't understand Ronny that Calls illegal, happens all over Thailand, and I know more and more people are going to do it, that's also because Thailand is making it more and more difficult for us to stay here, I also recently got the advice at my immigration office, the only thing is your three monthly visit to immigration, which you can often only do where the visa was issued,
Ronny's right it's illegal,
shame! it seems that Mr Peter 🙁 knows about that too
Corruption is everywhere, but you don't have to cooperate with it.
Why is it getting more and more difficult? Never noticed
All these characters (farang) must abide by the rules, it's that simple.
Otherwise, hopefully they'll be caught soon.
hello Wayan, don't look at the fralangs, but the immigration officers, sweet dreams is looking for some one, nothing illegal about it at all, but as always here in this blog, there are always know-it-alls, but then also ask those people they base all that on, bet they don't have a clear answer to that, they assume, but then come with hard facts,
Each immigration officer must act in accordance with the regulations in these two documents
ORDER OF THE IMMIGRATION BUREAU No. 138/2557 Subject: Supporting documents for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand
ORDER OF THE IMMIGRATION BUREAU No. 327/2557 Subject: Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand
If an applicant does not comply with the requirements contained in those documents, the following will apply
“5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order, but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application. “
Only the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or a designated person charged with that task can decide to deviate from those rules. That certainly does not happen at a time when you are walking in and out. 18000 or any amount is illegal.
From a know-it-all…
Dear RonnyLatYa,
This is absolutely correct', when people look closely in an immigration office at how decisions are made
are taken, then one had or sees that a Senior is watching at every desk.
This man decides.
Yours faithfully,
Erwin
So you don't understand that Ronny calls this 'illegal'? Well Mr Peter, this is illegal. And Thailand doesn't make it any harder to stay here. Thailand only makes it more difficult to circumvent the regulations, for whatever reason. The result of this is that people who do it in a legal way are also looked at with the neck and have to present more and more evidence, which is not really a problem for them. This with many thanks to those who always try to cheat things and are proud of it too.
Looks like you and Wayan aren't on the same wavelength as Peter.
There is nothing wrong with applying for a visa through an intermediary. Convenience serves people and with the right documents and the visit to immigration there is nothing illegal about it.
This has little to do with intermediaries who are committing fraud and about whom the questioner would like to know more information.
There is nothing wrong with using an intermediary, as long as everything is done within the framework of the law.
However, if you pay 18.000 Baht to get around the legally prescribed 800.000 Baht, it becomes a different story.
You play with your residence permit.
With that 18.000 Baht that you do not pay to that broker, you can also do nice things.
By the way, have you considered the possibility that this offer could be a government trap?
The good ones in and the bad back to their own country.
And by accepting this offer you would automatically be one of the bad guys, because you cheated the immigration authorities.
I don't think it's very likely, but the possibility does exist.
Get rid of the expats in a “clean” way.
I have also…. “Useless” 800,000 baht in a fixed account at the Bangkok bank.
At an interest rate of 1.6250%.
Still earns me about ฿13,000 annually. If I don't have to do anything, the bank does everything for me.
That's over ฿1,000 per month, where there is still some tax deducted, that's for sure.
Dear Adur
You talk about "a person" who can arrange this.
I think you mean one of the small offices/travel agencies that openly advertise this on their windows.
In the past there have been many crackdowns at these offices, nevertheless a few remain that can continue undisturbed, I assume that they have good contacts with immigration, which benefits both parties.
It is indeed illegal, but illegal in Thailand has a slightly different meaning than in the Netherlands.
I have done this myself and it has always ended well, neat original receipt from Soi 5 Immigration.
It is not prohibited in itself if you purchase services from a third party, provided that this is done in a "correct" manner.
But as Ronny says it goes well until it goes wrong, in fact they should close that office and not their customers, but this is also a logic that does not quite apply in Thailand.
You know where you stand with the first 3 monthly notification, and if a problem arises, I think it can be solved with the 800.000 baht, but then you may lose part of it, (Fine) I think furthermore, that colleagues do not quickly involve another colleague if questions arise.
This used to be a bit simpler, but now with automation it can be different (?).
.
So you don't get scared easily, just do it - Are you easily nervous, and may get sleepless nights, don't do it.
It is and remains a gamble, but isn't that the case with many things in life?
For the record: I'm not encouraging anything, just saying what I've been through. can turn out differently for everyone. Good luck.
There are bureaus that arrange this for you officially, according to the rules, which you must also follow.
There are also those who have connections and then obtain the necessary stamps with a bribe.
There are even those who have the stamps / stickers in the drawer, as long as you stay within TH this is possible, but once you really get to IMMI you have a big problem.
It is of course clear to everyone that those last 2 options are not in accordance with the law.
Personally I wouldn't do this, but I understand that there are people who see this as a last resort to stay with their family after living here for decades.
@Bert
Those who receive these vase stamps / stickers can never legally leave Thailand again, as this will not be in the computer.
And who knows for sure that the stamps / sticker has indeed “passed” the Immigration Office with the approval of the possible higher (cooperating) person in charge? Not so! It is rare in which situation your passport has been “treated” for your contribution to “agent”
I myself have always objected to people who obtain an extension through this route.
And as others have said, the rules have not been tightened at all. Only now there is more control and it is expected that people adhere to the rules.
Many also forget that a combination is also possible. Even with a pension of 400000 baht, you still only have to have the other half in your account. If you can no longer have 400.000 separately, I think it would be better to look for another place to live.
I have done the combination for the last three years. My pension is not enough so I make sure that the remaining amount to reach the 800.000 is in my Thai bank account. Never had any problems until two colleagues who work on the same system were told last week at the immigration office that the combination was no longer accepted. There you are, and in response to the question of what to do, they were given the option to get their extension after paying an amount of 15.000. All this happened in immi in buriram. Then I wonder if your stamp is also illegal.
The stamp itself will not be illegal. The method for awarding it in this way is.
They block a legal application procedure, and then promote an illegal method in order to capture 15000 Baht and thus enrich themselves. Maybe did their internship in Pattaya?
Dear Nicky, I do not know how long ago you had to extend your retirement, but new rules have been introduced, please give an example if you do not have a state pension or pension, and use the 800.000 bht scheme, previously the balance had to be paid three months before the application is in your bank account, now this has changed to two months before the application and after the application the balance must be in your account for another three months, and you may not fall below 400.000. how should I apply this new rule? call it, when you speak it is not aggravated
I hear there are plenty who do that in Pattaya. I've never really heard of any problems with it.
You know good people go to heaven and bad people everywhere.
Someone who meets the requirements for retirement (extension) can easily arrange this themselves. So with sufficient monthly income (65,000 baht unmarried) or with a richly filled bank account (800,000 baht unmarried). The costs are then:
1. the costs for income statement about 1450 baht or bank costs 200 baht
2 at immigration (application) 1900 baht.
Then some small costs such as money for copies and a passport photo. For less than 4000 baht you are provided for another year. Doing business with a desk for 18,000 baht should raise eyebrows. That is not a clean cake and can only work against you if you are unlucky due to a certain circumstance. Whether this will happen to you can never be foreseen in advance, but the problems can be major.
The fact is that in these types of cases such an agency commits fraud with the necessary amounts requested for such an extension. False bankbooks or income statements are the basis for this. The fact is also that applicants are told and know this in advance. So afterwards you can't act all innocent. I understand that there are people who are tempted because they are at a loss. But look before you leap. It's no use crying over spilled milk.
Aduard does not indicate in his question whether he meets the income criteria and he probably does not, because then the 800,000 baht in the bank is no problem to withdraw. I assume that he does have a pension or state pension and then he could opt for the option of arranging part through his income and another part through the bank book and then he can withdraw part of that 800,00 baht .
An Immigration Officer has the power/right to grant an extension without the usual obligations, in special circumstances. He determines these “special” circumstances himself. Nothing wrong with that. However, he may not receive any “benefits” from it. If so, we call that “corruption”. Few Thais are really concerned about this; money and the power it represents is a fact of life in Thailand. Some “Farangs” have no moral burden with this either.
No, an immigration officer does not have that right and power. And certainly not himself.
That is decided above.
Each immigration officer must act in accordance with the regulations in these two documents
ORDER OF THE IMMIGRATION BUREAU No. 138/2557 Subject: Supporting documents for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand
ORDER OF THE IMMIGRATION BUREAU No. 327/2557 Subject: Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand
If an applicant does not comply with the requirements contained in those documents, the following will apply
“5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order, but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application. “
Should be “he or she does not decide this” of course. There are also very many women in immigration. Sometimes I get the impression that they are even in the majority in certain immigration offices. Still at the lower level.
Right, this is the official statement.
In practice, especially in Pattaya, things are different.
I personally do not participate in these practices, but those who wish to do so also receive a stamp, identical to mine. They only have to present themselves with the ticket obtained to get their passport back and have a photo taken, just like myself.
Now it is just possible that the officer needs the approval of his superior, and that the "sponsorship" is divided.
Of course that's what it's all about.
And the stamp in itself is not illegal, but that does not make the method legal.
Correct again,
but who cares about that?
Not the Immigration officer, rarely the expat who uses it.
We the “law-abiding persons” do not participate, only speak/write about how wrong/dangerous it is.
Everyone (visitors/stayers) all know that corruption is part of the Thai way of life.
You either participate or you don't.
up to you.
I've been staying here in Thailand for about 20 years, using my pension income to get an annual extension.
Hope this option will continue to exist.
If this is not the case, I will proceed to a parallel road.
My ethical values will give way to laziness.
I do not wish after all these years, and old age, to have to look for a new place to stay.
But we are, of course, all different.
I can partly understand your position.
In the long run you would indeed start to wonder who is at the root of all the hassle surrounding immigration and the deviant behavior of many just to get their extension.
In the first place it is the fault of those who make it possible within the system and thus put the knife to the throat of people to choose a parallel path.
What can you blame them for if they have no other choice and, as Lambik says here, they are already at an advanced age and have settled here.
And let's be honest… it is (turning a blind eye) allowed, otherwise the Thai “authorities” would have stopped those practices long ago.
You can't tell me that the senior ministers of this country don't know about it, they just look the other way…. So?
For the sake of completeness I should add that fortunately I myself am not in the sad case of having to use parallel roads, but I can understand some people who have no choice.
We almost make it a sport to fill in our tax papers in such a way that we often get more back than we are entitled to.
Perhaps that will all be a bit more difficult now, but there is certainly a gray area.
And we all think that's great.
But now that someone is taking an alternative route to obtain a visa or asking questions about it, people think it is corrupt and that typical Dutch finger comes into play.
You are suddenly more Catholic than the Pope.
As if you do everything neatly according to the law here.
Improve the world and start with yourself
That applies to all of us.
You can also turn it around.
Everywhere people shout about how corrupt Thailand is, until people can benefit from it and then they justify it
I can understand very well that it is sour for you, but Ronny if you left your homeland years ago, and changes are constantly being implemented, actually a policy of discouragement and nowhere to go, then it is a solution to buy the visa or extension, and what it is called, those who use it will be a sausage, almost everything is for sale in Thailand, but for your information I am still on the road how it should be but I have many friends who run out of choices, in and in sad, think with relaxation of the rules many can get back on the road as it should be.
It's not sour to me at all. I don't care what anyone does.
If you were to read my response to the questioner, all I'm saying is I'm not giving advice on illegal roads and there's a warning. "Know what you're getting yourself into. It usually goes well until it goes wrong.”
Then I end with "But everyone does what he thinks he should do."
So what sour?
I ask the Belgian pension service (card reader ID) to send me proof of income by e-mail.
Must go to Bangkok for affidavit (declaration on honour). Long journey though. 10 minutes work there.
Passport photo, yes.
1.900 baht.
And okay.
Situation in Belgium????
If you have been deregistered in Belgium, you can also arrange this by post. You don't have to travel to Bangkok.
It is because of such illegal games that immigration makes it increasingly difficult for farrangs who do follow the rules correctly.
Of course, such a thing can only be maintained with the cooperation of persons within immigration.
I have been using income statement since 2012 without problems with OA visa, now problems with health insurance, I do have a (DKV) and proof that my 2 operations (2016) have been paid in full but for the IO that does not count, I have to go outside Thailand and requesting a new visa NON O based on marriage, I am with a heart disease and it is difficult for me to travel for a long time and back on a small flight to Laos for me may be a disaster.
My wife says I can't go to the senior officer to ask for help because the IO will be angry that I have been angry, so if you say:
Each immigration officer must act in accordance with the regulations in these two documents
ORDER OF THE IMMIGRATION BUREAU No. 138/2557 Subject: Supporting documents for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand
ORDER OF THE IMMIGRATION BUREAU No. 327/2557 Subject: Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand
If an applicant does not comply with the requirements contained in those documents, the following will apply
“5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order, but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application.
i certainly do not want to use an agent as it is a dangerous game,i will still try to discuss the senior officer and will inform you,i still have time until march 26th i have to do my 19 day report on february 90th and will go a few days before .
And keep finding it strange that immigration is becoming increasingly difficult.
There is a “Conspiracy Theory” going around that Immigration is making it more and more difficult so that everyone would use a “parallel path”, and thus many Immigration officers would benefit financially.
Note that many posts are negative,
Corruption is normal in Thailand?
And then join in, sorry but there is also corruption in the Netherlands.
Same stories about education in Thailand or driving behavior
Lots of fake news
If you think it's better in the Netherlands, go back, are you happy here, stop whining, be positive 🙂
Follow the rules and you won't have a problem.
I have never had a problem in Thailand, not with immigration, (not more difficult than 15 years ago) not in traffic, and education is excellent, my son (Ned, nationality) with a Thai bachelor's degree, has successfully applied for a job in defense for officer training KMA
Of course, respect the rules. But what if the rules are changed (65000 becomes 100, 400000 and 800000 become 600 and 1200000) and no “grandfathering clause”? Those who now write “well, you just have to put 800000 in a bank account” and everything is done, may then also get into trouble and perhaps also look for parallel paths.
You are not sure of anything in Thailand.
Almost 20 years here, without any problem with police/immigration, but never get more than 1 year residence permit at a time.