Dear Editor/Rob V.,
My wife's daughter went to VFS Global this week to apply for a Schengen visa. In December, when we were in Thailand, I had done the necessary paperwork with her, including filling in the application form manually. That is now no longer accepted. You must fill it in digitally, print it out and sign it and then hand it in.
Fortunately, she had heard about this through social media and was able to arrange it before her appointment, but I couldn't find anything about it in December.
Contacted BUZA and suddenly there is a completely new site that clearly states that now. I do not understand what the advantage is, because after completing and downloading the form, according to the information on the site, all data is deleted again, moreover, I also filled in the guarantee form manually and had it legalized and that is accepted.
So for anyone who is going to apply be aware of this.
Regards,
Rob
Dear Rob,
Thanks for your feedback. What is the address of that new site? I only know NederlandsAndYou and the VFS Global website (see below). If there is a third site for which the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is responsible, then it's a real party.
Both do refer to the online fillable form as standard. But nowhere does it say that printing a blank form and completing it yourself will no longer be accepted. In fact, on the VFS site they still write 'Complete your visa application form and affix your photograph. You may download the form from this website. '.
Completed online will probably be preferred due to readability. But if the Ministry of Foreign Affairs comes up with its own rules (nowhere in the Visa Code is there a ban on manually completed application forms), that is, uhm, special. Although I can still understand their purpose (readability). That they no longer accept forms completed in block capitals, they should explicitly indicate this on both sites and the various checklists that are in circulation. And also ensure that no other government agency (IND, etc.) still offers blank forms for download.
I think it would be more sensible if the Ministry of Foreign Affairs slowly expands the downloadable/printable versions until practically all applicants automatically submit the online form (because the Ministry of Foreign Affairs can look at this by default and have all printable PDFs taken offline everywhere). Would be customer friendly.
- www.netherlandsandyou.nl/your-country-and-the-netherlands/thailand/travel-and-residence/applying-for-a-short-stay-schengen-visa
- www.vfsglobal.com/netherlands/thailand/
Regards,
Rob V
Thanks for the tip, we are going to June Bangkok for visa.
I wonder what it's like now if you're a digital illiterate.
Or if you don't have a computer or a printer.
Do think that there should always be room for the use of pen and paper, the government, in whatever form, should not go too far in the digitization drive.
I think.
And this is now typically a case of going too far.
Yesterday, a friend of mine submitted a manually filled form, and it was accepted without any issues.
I received another email from Rob. In it he writes that he has the forms from the IND site (a logical place for a Dutchman with a Thai partner), Ministry of Foreign Affairs pointed him to the NetherlandsAndYou site. There people refer to the digital forms and there is no longer a PDF to print to fill in yourself. But nowhere does it say that a (clearly written) printout is no longer accepted.
He writes: “I complained about this to the embassy, but they dismiss everything very haughtily, (…) But what concerns me most is that nowhere does it say that the form may only be completed digitally, and at my request Why then my hand-filled guarantee form is accepted, they fail to answer.”
I agree with Rob, if you only hear 'sorry, the form must be completed on the computer' when you submit the application, then you still have a problem. Ministry of Foreign Affairs will not mean any harm, but it is a sign of thinking in its own right 'what makes things easier for our decision-making officials?'. Naturally, people do not interfere with the IND website, where people also end up looking for information and material. But thinking along from the perspective of foreign nationals and sponsors still falls short of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. While the question can be so easy: ' I am a Dutch / Thai who started collecting papers 2 months ago. How can all this help me if I have started my preparation in Dutch/English/Thai well in advance?' . And then respond to that so that these people are helped on their way as best as possible. What is the best way to help the customer?
Really our robbery again.
We can't make it more fun, nor easier. But more expensive…
It is a Schengen arrangement, not from our government. He shouldn't even ask for less. If you do not want to pay for your visa, you marry your partner and go with him or her to another Schengen country.
That story about whether or not the application form must be completed digitally is a matter for external service provider VFS, not for the embassy. Every application form will simply be processed there.
You can complain to the embassy about the behavior of VFS.
If the latter happens enough (and well formulated) something will change someday.
The ideal situation will never be reached, because that is (for the citizen) visa-free travel.
That's right Prawo. Perhaps there are already Flemings who travel to the Netherlands with their married Thai partner and can already complain. On NetherlandsAndYou, point 3 has already been removed from the website under 'appointment'. There was a link to how you can apply directly at the embassy. That's gone now, they send everything and everyone to VFS. Also the special categories that are still entitled to direct access. That is not appropriate, although I understand that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs prefers to see everything and everyone go to the external service provider (costs the citizen extra money, saves embassy staff, time and therefore money).
The Facebook of the embassy also simply stated that you can no longer go to the embassy. That is incorrect information and in violation of EU rules.
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ภาษาไทยด้านล่าง
As of February 1, 2020 new rules are in force if you apply for a Schengen or Caribbean visa. This is a consequence of new regulations adopted by the European Union.
In addition, as of February 1, 2020 it will only be possible to apply for a Schengen visa at the external service provider VFS in Bangkok. From that date onwards applying at the embassy will not be possible anymore.
https://www.netherlandsandyou.nl/latest-news/news/2019/11/01/changes-in-the-rules-for-schengen-visa-applications
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1 เป็นต้นไป กฎระเ More information More information More information ช้
1 กุมภาพันธ์ 2020 ท่านจ More information การ VFS ในกรุงเทพฯ เพียงเท่านั้น การสมัครผ่านช About us
Image caption Image caption :
https://www.netherlandsandyou.nl/latest-news/news/2019/11/01/changes-in-the-rules-for-schengen-visa-applications
—–
Source:
https://www.facebook.com/netherlandsembassybangkok/posts/2909610189089778?
And even if the embassy no longer has a counter and everyone has to go to VFS… in that case, family members of EU/EEA citizens may be charged 0,0 fees and costs. After all, VFS is then not chosen out of clear free choice and free will about a visit to the embassy.
VFS writes:
-
VFS service charge:
Apart from the visa fee, VFS service charge in THB 250 (for submission with biometrics) inclusive of VAT per application will be levied for applicants applying at the visa application centre.
Visa Fee Payment can only be made in cash.
All fees are non-refundable.
—
Source: https://www.vfsglobal.com/netherlands/thailand/eu_guidelines_applications.html
Another mistake (for which Ministry of Foreign Affairs is responsible): That, as VFS writes, all fees are not refundable is also not true. In cases where costs have been charged incorrectly (visa fees or a VFS service fee) you should simply get them back…
The above also applies, of course, to Dutch citizens with a Thai married partner who apply for a visa via Belgium, Germany, etc. Just have to be able to go to the embassy (they prefer not to see you there), so if you already had to go to VFS, no service costs should be charged for these applicants. This visa costs the applicant 0,00 euros.
We, my wife and I, were also confronted with an additional requirement for my wife's visa
My wife's passport and visa had expired and so we had to get a new one
Requested and received a new passport in November
At home I had read up on various websites about the requirements for applying for a Schengen visa and collected and filled in the documents to be submitted, as well as the guarantee and income details of myself and a pack of copies of all this.
I completed the application form for the visa on the computer and printed it out
I dare to say that everything was perfect, we were well prepared
I even had a bag full of other documents with me; in case ……
The day of the appointment, in December, at the embassy, we arrived a little early and waited outside
The messenger asked if we had all the forms complete and asked if he could see them, of course he could
After looking at everything one by one he said it was OK and we got one tracking number
It was my wife's turn and she entered
A few minutes later she came out frightened and excited and said to me: "where is my old passport, it is not there"
I told her that she had a new passport , the old one has expired and is therefore no longer valid and is not asked to show , according to the list of documents / documents to be submitted
My wife back in with this answer
A little later the messenger beckons me in and I am told that the old passport must also be handed in with copies of all pages.
I say that it is not on the list as documents to be handed in and that, moreover, that passport has expired and is therefore no longer valid
Then I am told that if that old passport is not there, the application is NOT COMPLETE and will therefore NOT be processed…………….it was a pointless discussion
That is of course a drama if you have been on the bus all day to travel to Bangkok and you have to go back home to collect your old passport and make a new appointment
As I said: I had a bag full of extra papers with me and luckily also the old passport
After submitting this, the lady behind the counter said that the application was now complete and would be processed
We have now received the new visa for my wife
Where does this additional requirement come from, and why is there nothing about it on websites about Schengen visas, and why can this be done just like that
For those who still need to apply for a visa in the future : be prepared for anything , take all conceivable and unthinkable papers with you , because you will be sent away
Pee, expired passports are NOT necessary for a Schengen visa application. The counter employee saw them flying. Perhaps the same one that Rob insisted that a manually completed form is not okay. The requirements that the applicant must meet and the papers that the foreign national has to show have not changed. Not even as of 2-2-2020 when the new rules come into effect.
They are not EU/Schengen rules, and of course the Ministry of Foreign Affairs cannot suddenly demand that as a local requirement from the Netherlands. Old passports are simply not necessary. At the most, as a foreign national you must enclose a copy of old passports if they contain visa stickers and travel stamps to (Western) countries. This is to substantiate that the foreign national is reliable and will return to Thailand on time (positive travel history). But that is NOT an obligation.
As is also stated in the visa file: the counter employee goes through the checklist together with the foreign national (which is also available on NetherlandsAndYou). If something is missing that is on the checklist, the employee can notice that the application is not complete, but the application may not be refused. If the foreign national wants to submit it that way, that is allowed. It is up to the (Dutch) officials in the back office to decide on the application. The employees behind the counter are there purely to collect the papers and forward them to the right department.
If, for special reasons, the decision-making officer of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (in Kuala Lumpur, later in The Hague) still wants to see more information, such as an old passport, they will contact the foreign national.
To file a complaint:
If well-intentioned counter staff or for whatever reason refuse to accept an application due to the lack of a piece of paper, you can complain about this to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs/Embassy (remain polite, of course). Then one can take action and another person can be spared such misunderstandings. Embassy mail address:
ban (at) minbuza (dot) en
The English checklist does not state t and the Dutch list does
Dear Pee, do you have a link to that Dutch checklist? Thank you in advance.
Because they can't just ask anyone for their expired passports. Just not in the Visa Code. There is usually no point in such an expired passport. And an elderly Thai then comes with a few hundred prints of 10 expired passports…
Found on NederlandEnU , a checklist from 2018. Versions from 2017 can also be found via Google.
However, neither are requirements arising from the Visa Code. They are certainly not legal requirements. Such information from expired passports is at most recommended, an advice (the decision-making officer can see that the foreign national is reliable by seeing previous trips to Western countries).
That Dutch checklist is simply not correct, even if it is 'well-intentioned'. The English checklist on the NetherlandsAndYoy site and VFS is simply the only correct one. They do not ask for these purely optional documents. And even the things that are on the English list there (such as proof of medical travel insurance) in the absence of such a point, one can at most point out that the application is incomplete, but the counter employee cannot refuse to take it if a piece of paper is missing. Yes, there will be a rejection, but that is up to the decision official, not the counter employee.
A complaint about requiring old passport copies is therefore in order anyway.
The 2018 one states:
“Passport copy: copy of all used pages of the current passport and, if applicable, of all previously obtained passports (holder page, validity,
pages with stamps, visas). If applicable: copies of previously obtained visas for the Schengen area, Great Britain, the United States and Canada.”
<= Schengen travel history is in the EU database, so asking on paper is only for the convenience of any lazy officials. But they have to check the database anyway in case it contains things that the applicant has deliberately not provided (previous visa rejection).
The 2017 one states:
"The holder page of all previous passports
with corresponding visas."
<= this is completely badly worded. It is logical that there is a new version, but the comment that this is optional is missing.
- https://www.nederlandenu.nl/documenten/publicaties/2018/3/14/checklist–familie-en-vriendenbezoekkort-verblijf-1-90-dagen
Rob
This site contains the most recent checklist from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which dates from May 2019
Under 2.4 is the requirement to hand in old passport plus copies
I believe that it is all confusing, VFS global is in English and that requirement is not there
file:///D:/Peter/Downloads/Checklist+Schengenvisa+-+visit+to+family+or+friends+(Dutch)_7+May+2019%20(7).pdf
Complaining about a complaint ...... I'd rather not do that, I don't want to antagonize anyone
On a subsequent visit, this may lead to other additional matters, or that it will be made difficult for us
I don't want to take that risk
Google calls it 2017 but the page I get to is 2019:
https://www.nederlandenu.nl/documenten/publicaties/2017/01/01/checklist-schengenvisum—bezoek-aan-familie-vrienden-nl
“2.4 The holder page of all previous passports with associated visas. ”
But what is on that checklist is not correct. It is not a requirement to get the visa, it is simply a piece of optional substantiation to show that you are a bona fide traveler. But also at the bottom of the checklist is:
” An application without the complete set of documents in accordance with the above checklist,
may lead to a rejection of your visa application.”
A counter employee can therefore never refuse to accept an application because a required document (travel insurance, flight reservation, etc.) or optional document (old passports and stamps) is missing.
I understand that you are afraid that a complaint will be used against you. But the complaints department is a completely different branch than the department where the decision official (in Kuala Lumpur, later The Hague) is located. An e-mail to the embassy that a counter employee has acted incorrectly will not result in a dash after your name or anything that they will then pass on to the decision-making officials.
In the past I have written to almost all Schengen embassies in Thailand and some un their ministries in the member states about incorrect information on their website, VFS site, other government sites or incorrect actions at the counter. This often helped, and changes were made to the information. But still errors creep into the official information on the websites of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, VFS, etc. I don't know if I want to spend another hour writing to authorities. Others seem to leave it at that for the most part. But then it bothers me that the citizen is misled (by no means always deliberately, often more because information is outdated or the government thinks from its own street and not from how the citizen is best served).
Anyway: the Dutch checklist is wrong, the English ones (on the VFS site and BuZa site) are correct. Those English ones will handle 99% of the people, including the counter staff. The one counter employee who acts differently is simply wrong. Errors are human, but someone should be held accountable for them. This only happens in response to feedback, comments and complaints from citizens.