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Home » Language » Thai is really a very difficult language!
The Thai language is way too difficult. Don't start because it won't work anyway. Only Thais can learn that language because of their special language skills. The following video clearly shows why it is such a crazy and tricky language.
Well Tino I know enough farang who master the language perfectly.
Difficulty is that you can't read it if you want to learn the language, but with a good teacher and family and a lot of practice and listening it should work.
You still want to make yourself understood in your new home country and be able to understand the people/family.
Difficult yes, impossible no
You're absolutely right, Eric H. Important and fun to learn, a bit more difficult than some other languages but certainly not impossible.
Thai is not exactly a difficult language.
But it is very different from Western languages and we didn't learn it as a child.
This is especially difficult for the different tones.
As a child we were not taught to distinguish between them.
Languages are best learned when you are still a small child.
With parents in Belgium, for example, whose father speaks French at home and mother Dutch, a child speaks French with father and Dutch with mother and has no problem with that.
In Dutch, too, different tones can express different meanings, but more often on an emotional level. You can say 'yes' in many ways and then sometimes it means 'no'. "Yes, yes" in a high and low tone. A language without tones does not exist.
Certainly, but that only applies to a limited number of words in Dutch.
And very few words have five different pitches with five different meanings.
A canal remains a canal, a house a house.
And water is water no matter how you pronounce it.
So funny, but it's true.
Thai is not easy, nor Dutch, German and other languages…now I know several foreigners who speak Thai very well…so with the necessary perseverance it can certainly be learned…
Ruud,
It is difficult to judge whether someone speaks or understands Thai well.
I understand everything my wife says to me in Thai.
But following the Thai news channel is problematic, as are the debates in politics.
I wonder how many people can do this.
People also sometimes think that I have a good command of the language.
I know a hundred words, understand a lot of the conversations, and master a number of beautiful long sentences that make a big impression.
My wife has not met a Farang who speaks Thai well in the last 42 years, let alone one with an official diploma.
And then those language purists, but get thrown at your feet that you have to learn the language [better] if you want to live here as a 50/60-plus person with an annual visa.
If Thais are so fond of tourists and long-stayers, a lingua franca that is used more often would be useful.
I think Thai, like Chinese, is difficult for the elderly to learn because they are languages with different pitches associated with different meanings.
“Like Chinese, Thai is a one-letter language with five pitches, high, low, neutral, rising and falling. The pitch is indicated by accent marks above the vowels
Basically, each syllable is a word; identically spelled words take on different meanings due to the pitch associated with them. In Thai, for example, there is the famous phrase 'Mai mai mai mai mai?' that roughly means 'The green forest isn't burning, is it'?"
When you're young, you learn those pitches more easily than when you're older and your hearing isn't what it was when you were 10 or 15. Most expats are over 50.
“As we get older, hearing deteriorates very slowly, this is called age-related hearing loss or presbycusis. Especially, and especially in the beginning, hearing the high tones becomes less as the years go by. In addition to hearing the sound less well, the sound is also distorted.”
Quote:
“Like Chinese, Thai is a one-letter language with five pitches, high, low, neutral, rising, and falling. The pitch is indicated by accent marks above the vowels.'
Sorry to confuse you here Chris. Pitch is indicated in two ways in Thai spelling. 1 by a combination of one of the three classes of consonants in combination with a subsequent long or short vowel and 2 by an accent mark on a consonant (and not on a vowel).
I don't understand what a one-letter language is. You probably mean a language with only one-syllable words. That is no longer the case in Thai. There are Thai words with up to 7 syllables!
And yes, at an older age you hear high tones less well, but when you hear it you do hear that it is a high tone and that's what it's all about.
It is a fairy tale that children learn a language faster than the elderly.
https://www.mensenkennis.be/klinische-psychologie/waarom-leren-kinderen-vlotter-een-nieuwe-taal-dan-volwassenen/
https://www.wetenschapsnet.com/psychologie/waarom-kinderen-sneller-leren-dan-volwassenen/
https://www.eoswetenschap.eu/psyche-brein/waarom-kinderen-sneller-taal-leren%5D
Well, some don't want to believe science.
Sorry, chris, this is not science but his assumptions. Read the information on the two links I posted below.
Yes, a child learns a language differently, and learns a different kind of language. But faster? Well, all the research shows that most adults can master a language almost completely if you immerse them in that language every day and all day for 3-4 months. Children can't.
It takes children 4-6 years to speak a language well, although their parent(s) nag them every day. I'm not talking about reading and writing yet. Adolescents can learn a language in 6 years, with reading and writing. If you stay in the same language environment, that goes even better. Together with others, I gave Dutch lessons to an asylum seeker from Iran. He spoke, read and wrote Dutch quite well after 2 years. But he was also busy with it for a large part of the day. He chatted with everyone like I did in Thailand. I damned to speak English.
This story contains real references to scientific research.
https://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2019/11/do-kids-really-learn-languages-faster-than-adults/
I suspect that "one-letter" refers to the (English) phonetics, because right after that sentence comes the example of mai-mai-mai-mai*. When converting from Thai to English script, 1) the difference between aspirated and unaspirated letters is often lost (K vs kH, P vs PH), 2) long and short vowels (a aa, o oo) 3) tone indicators. Well, then you end up with a poor result in which it becomes a real art to find out what is actually written.
* ไม้ใหม่ไม่ไหม้ไหม > mái mài mâi mâi măi (high, low, falling, falling, rising) > mai mai mai mai mai (??? No idea because there is no tone indication but 1 knitting of the same letters, does not fall almost impossible to translate or to read aloud correctly).
Learn the script! Then the handicap of incomprehensible "one-letter" phonetics on signs, texts and so on disappears.
@Tino
I don't find Thai a difficult language because you can hear the sounds well and words are understandable, I don't find that with Chinese.
I just learned Thai by studying hard, first from the street and later with self-study every day for 2-3 hours at the time in the late 70s with the black Cardwright book with gold print: Fundamentals of the Thai Language I can manage well and understand most 97% (not 100%) of what people say, I always say if you can follow the Thai TV News you have passed.
However, I have also been busy with Chinese and that turned out not to be for me at all, that swishing sound, where the tongue has to reach places that are completely unknown to a Western person, quickly made me decide to stop.
With Thai I can hear what is being said, with Chinese I only hear strange s(l) hissing sounds, but maybe I threw in the towel too quickly, it seemed to me that being farang is also a bit Chinese. can speak.
Sometimes I have conversations with some foreign expats and not one of them makes the effort to learn Thai, despite living in Thailand for years.
I don't understand such people, it mainly concerns English and Americans, I think they think that everyone should speak English, I suspect this mainly out of convenience.
In addition to Dutch, I speak almost fluently English and German and reasonable French. When I came to Thailand, my intention was to also learn to speak and understand Thai, but my hearing is congenitally bad. In testing it has been shown that my hearing is poor on certain pitches and CONSONANTS. And when I hear Thai… I only hear sounds. I can't make sense of it and so I've given up on learning Thai. All the more so because the Thai that is spoken is also not unambiguous. Hearing specialists have wondered how I managed to manage at my work level (commercial in automation) with my poor hearing without aids. I now have 2 hearing aids that I don't use. hahaha, and can save me just fine. But I need to see the speaker.
So what I have apparently developed is a combination of lip-reading and making connections between what I hear and an expected sentence structure. And those are elements that I can forget in Thai and make Thai very difficult for me. But my hats off to the farangs who have learned to communicate in Thai.
Our native language is also difficult to learn for Thai. Especially some combinations of consonants, in autumn for example. Also the spelling that sometimes changes. Formerly it was English, German, French and Thai. Since 1947 it has been English, German, French and Thai.
Dutch learners have a lot of trouble with 'de' and 'het' words. I gave the following advice: use a diminutive, which is always 'the' or a plural, which is always 'the'.
My experience of living in Thailand for 15 years is that Thais among themselves do not speak the Thai language.
For example, after living in the north for 4 years and thinking of speaking a few words of Thai, I learned that I was no longer understood or wanted to be understood because Isaan Thai is completely different words. North CNX is Lana, North East is Isan. I am 72 years old and try to learn new words every day, but every day it sounds different and it is sometimes annoying when people laugh at me because I said something wrong again.
When I said MAA and meant dog, they understood horse. So I go for a walk every day with my horse according to them instead of with my dog.
I give up trying to learn any more foreign words and then I just sawwow.
Lungfons, the school-going youth really do speak High Thai.
I do come across elderly people who speak little or no High Thai and in Isan they speak Isan (or Lao along the Mekong) and in the north they speak Northern Thai. There must be another language or dialect in the deep south. By the way, in the small NL you will find many other languages and the Belgians speak three separate from their dialects. Let's be glad that regional languages are still around; otherwise a lot of culture would disappear.
Learning languages also has a lot to do with the necessity of it.
People belonging to a large language group therefore learn fewer foreign languages.
The British are an example of the latter. You probably know the joke that fits in that typical British self-deprecating tradition in which a Briton wonders aloud whether, if the Germans had conquered their country at the time, they would now speak German. 'No,' says another Brit who coincidentally overhears the question, 'we would still speak English, but a lot louder than now'.
It was a bit sarcastic what I wrote above about the almost impossible task of learning Thai. I found the video very funny.
Learning reasonable Thai takes about a third more time: 900 hours compared to 600 hours for English, for example. Age and a gift for language are less important than perseverance. An hour a day of lessons, an hour a day of practicing on the street and after two years everyone can speak and read Thai properly.
A funny video that shows how difficult the Thai language is. Because it would be easy, I absolutely disagree.
Even started a Thai course in the nineties, then still on cassette tapes. And with accompanying textbooks. (In English, which of course didn't make it any easier.)
The results were definitely poor, which changed when I met my wife Oy.
A walking Thai dictionary next to you makes a big difference, as I now know.
My Thai is just good enough to get me through everyday life being in Thailand. However, it will never be perfect. But that's okay, because I've noticed that the Thai like it when you try to speak their language. And don't immediately throw yourself under the bus if you stumble over a pitch or bend a verb.
I do not agree that Thai is a difficult language. You just need to have the will to learn the language. Agreed, there is no connection with our western languages, but I bought a small dictionary ENG/THAI, THAI/ENG during my first holiday in Thailand and spent a lot of time learning the language. After about 5 holidays later, I first managed to make a sentence and from then on everything went much smoother, so: make the effort and don't give up easily. Grammatically, Thai is simpler than English in that they have no plural forms and no past/future tense as we know it. They work more with descriptions.
There are many complaints about the difficult tones, but if you listen carefully to Thai you will get the hang of it. Mind you, I don't speak perfect Thai but enough to make myself understood and if I don't know a word I will describe it. I haven't used my dictionary for years and I've never lived in Thailand but spent more than 30 holidays there. It is necessary to talk to the local residents as much as possible and then you also command their respect.
Let's talk about the frequently heard remark that children learn a new language faster than adults. That is not true. They learn differently, yes. Here are two links to articles about that: Judge for yourself.
https://www.brainscape.com/academy/easier-for-child-to-learn-second-language/
and here:
https://www.leonardoenglish.com/blog/youre-never-too-old-to-learn-english
It might be a bit clearer with phonetics and/or Thai script:
หม้าย = mâai (descending) = widow
ไม่ = mâi (falling) = not
หมาย = mǎai (rising) = aim
ไหม้ = mâi (falling) = to burn
ไหม้ = mâi (falling) = to burn
ไม้ = máai (high) = wood
เอา = ao (middle) = wishes
ไหม = mǎi (rising) = silk (but also question word: 'don't you?'
ใหม่ = mài (low) = new
ไม่ = mâi (falling) = not
ไหม้ = mâi (falling) = to burn
ไหม = mǎi (rising) = question word 'not?' (but also: silk)
Then you end up with this tongue twister, especially if it is pronounced quickly.
English translation: “the widow does not aim at burnt wood. You want new unburned silk, don't you?"
Thank you, Rob V. Good explanation. Let's practice! Mai Mai?
Thai is certainly not a rich language. Bit similar to many minor African languages. The pitches are also usually very confusing and yes for Thai too
After the long years in Thailand it strikes me how often Thai have misunderstood each other. How many times do I not hear my wife or family say….he or she understand wrong.
No rich language? Really, huh? Thai otherwise has 5 words for 'gold. and 10 words for 'death'! Nice that you know so many 'small' African languages.
Oh yes, and at least 15 words for 'I'. Can't get richer, right? And for sex 10 words…..
Not just 5 tones hear/
Payanchana, Sala and Wanayuk
It's all part of it.
Funny to read that Thais have a talent for languages, well Thais in general hardly speak any other language except Thai and very poor English.
It will be more because you are taught a certain language from a young age, just like many African languages of various tribes there if you have not been brought up with it, it is almost impossible to do.
Many Thais also speak fluent Yawi (Jawi, southern Thailand), Khmer or Chinese. Many also speak another Thai language such as Isan, kham meuang (the north) or Thai Lue, like my ex. The latter languages differ as much from each other as the Germanic languages.
As long as the expats keep talking that stupid Tinglish (Where you go? I no like! Why no food?) to the Thais, learning English won't really progress.
Dear Tina,
I totally agree with you except for that last sentence.
Because you can hardly blame the expats for the poor English of many Thai people. That using 'Tinglish' doesn't help, okay, but the real culprit is of course the lousy education people get at school.
Or the complete lack thereof.
To be honest, I do participate in this use of coal English, because I often notice that a Thai doesn't understand me when I ask a question in my best polished school English. Certainly not with mother-in-law in the countryside.
PS Thank you for this topic, it makes a lot of sense!
Lieven, yes, but whose fault is it that people don't understand each other?
My opinion: if you emigrate to A country, learn the A language as well. I did that on my first TH trip, already 30 years ago, with a Linguaphone course on tape and a few books. First the alphabet, then the 'markers', then the punctuation marks, and then walking/cycling in Thailand to read all provinces on the license plates. In the meantime buy books from class ONE of the prathom and do the exercises of the very youngest. Then learning the pitches and that is indeed difficult.
Result: I can read and write; only my speaking skills are decreasing now that I live in NL again and I no longer speak Thai every day.
But I am well aware that not everyone can learn Thai easily; can't such a person also learn another language so that he/she can still help himself? With NL you will not get there in Thailand.
I have the impression that many emigrants are just too lazy for it… Put your mind to it and you will succeed.
Dear Erik,
I think both sides can be blamed. Of course you can't expect the Thai to learn English en masse to help the farang out of the language fire, but if they at least got a solid foundation at school, that would make a big difference.
What I myself have seen of Thai primary school education in terms of English is of a very deplorable level. Even the teacher often doesn't know what he or she is doing.
On the other hand, as you say yourself, you may expect someone who is going to live in country A to also try to master the language. The problem is often that people are a bit older, retired, don't have the energy anymore, or, as in my case, don't really have a knack for languages.
And yes, maybe also out of laziness because people have saved themselves in this way with 'Thinglish' for years.
Ps I also did that Linguaphone course, and as a basis it was fine I remember.
As long as the expats use that stupid Tinglish …………………………….
Dear Tina,
You are now starting to speak very much for your own parish.
The facts are really different.
Here's a link from the bangkok herald where they explain how or what.
https://bit.ly/3PWjgf7
O sorry had pressed the translate button here the English version.
https://bit.ly/3zy3aTM
For the rest, learning Thai well is not easy for many European retirees and the need is often low.
The Thai, on the other hand, could benefit considerably more from it.
Not because they can then address their partner in English, but for many other things worldwide.
Tino,
Dumb Tinglish was born out of necessity due to the Thai's lack of knowledge of the English language.
When someone doesn't understand you, you have to do something to make something clear.
The correct English language is understood by only a very limited group of Thais.
Even the doctors often speak less English than a 14-year-old Dutch student.
When I find out that the other party speaks English, I quickly switch to standard English.
I therefore think that the lack of command of the English language is directly related to the education, fed by the strong nationalistic feeling.
This 'lack of knowledge of the English language' is not only found among the Thai. Also many 'farangs' – yes, also from our Low Countries – speak very poor English (although they are often convinced of the opposite)……..
And almost all Thais speak the language of their new country of residence after a few years, while very few foreigners know Thai after years. Thais really have a knack for languages.
That is something to think about.
How is it possible that many uneducated people from the bar industry speak better English than the people who have attended a university? Is it because being able to speak English is seen as loose dealing with foreigners?
Johnny,
Surely it is clear that learning to speak a language is something you learn through practice and use and not at school.
My experience with Thai in NL and B is completely different. Depends, of course, on what one means by speaking the language.
There is a big difference between speaking the language and knowing 200 words. There are some farangs who claim they speak Thai. When my wife starts a conversation with them, it quickly becomes clear that this is anything but the case.
What are you actually basing yourself on? I really haven't noticed much of that yet. Most of them don't even manage to speak English correctly after years and no, not even the girlfriends of English speaking partners who don't speak Thinglish.
Compared to Filipinos, Koreans and/or Indians, their English is below par
Tino,
The Thai in the Netherlands who speak some Dutch have their children as teachers.
Born of necessity.
Many also have no Dutch acquaintances and limit themselves to other Thai people.
My wife, who has lived in the Netherlands for 34 years, speaks Dutch so badly that you will have some difficulty understanding her.
This despite her so-called language knob and 4 years of Dutch education for foreigners.
Thais have an eating knob and a money knob.
We have Thai acquaintances, Thai food, we watch Thai TV, follow the Thai news and Thai sites on the internet.
Let's say fully integrated.
Complete nonsense..
In my living environment in the Netherlands, I have knowledge of 5 Thai women who all live in the Netherlands for a long time.
Only one is able to carry on a conversation.
The others look at you stupidly when you ask something and give answers that show they don't understand the question.
They want to make an attempt about food and money, but just an interesting question, no answer.
It's the purely bad education: My Thai wife is being treated by one doctor and I by another. When both doctors switch to English, we don't understand anything. Note that this happens in 2 different hospitals, both claiming to be "International". If you don't speak Thai here as a foreigner, you can't go anywhere.
Now we have a 9-year-old girl next door who is taught by American teachers and speaks better than both doctors. We're moving forward!
Speaking a language is one thing, communicating with that language is another story.
When communicating, non-verbal attitude, manner of expression, language skills (is someone of a high or low class), pitch and volume, body language, the way of using the language, etc, etc, play a decisive role.
And no matter how long you live in Thailand and how well you think you know the culture, you can't tell me that you will ever be able to communicate with Thais at that native level.
It's nice that you can order a cup of coffee in Thai, in Isaan you won't even get very far with it.
I won't bother myself, I've been here for about 10 years now and I know maybe 10 words of Thai that I still pronounce incorrectly. And I like it that way.
And “blaming” each other that the Thais don't speak English and the foreigners don't speak Thai, you go ahead….
By the way, if I sometimes read the contribution to the Thailand blog here and there,….I do realize that it is sometimes difficult, but it does not irritate me at all.
So….
Pim,
I have been coming to Thailand for 42 years and have made several attempts to learn Thai.
OK never really serious several hours a day.
My wife says I better keep my mouth shut because people don't understand me and some words can be misunderstood.
I will also never order bananas in a full Thai sense and then also look at the servant in a friendly way.
Just point to it and then say one kilo is enough.
Ordering coffee in Thai is indeed easier.