A farang is not a guava
Some expats in Thailand think that the word farang widely used to refer to a foreigner is offensive and is derived from the Thai word farang, which means guava. It is a well-known misconception, with which Pichaya Svasti in Bangkok Post makes short shrift.
Svasti, who calls himself a history and language freak, explains that the word farang is not offensive or negative at all. According to the most likely theory, the Thais borrowed from Persian the word farangi, which was used to refer to Europeans and non-Muslims. The West Germanic tribe of Franken also derived its name from it in the early Middle Ages, where France in turn took its name from.
Because Thais have a habit of simplifying or putting their own spin on foreign words that are difficult to pronounce, they made them farang.
"It is my opinion," writes Mrs. Pichaya (Thais use the first name), "that the word farang, used to refer to foreigners, has nothing to do with the word farang, which means guava fruit." By way of comparison, she mentions the English word patient, which means both patient and patient.
Only when farang is combined with khi nok (bird droppings) does it have an offensive connotation. This means an unreliable foreigner.
(Source: Bangkok Post, July 28, 2011)
I once read somewhere that the word Farang (pronounced Falang in Thai) comes from Francais, because apparently in the past there was a French army base in or near Bangkok. The French were one of the first nationalities to gain a foothold in Thailand. The French were Francais, which later became Falang. Afterwards, this term was used for all foreigners, regardless of nationality.
please don't pronounce it falang.
you're not going to measure yourself with a speech impediment because they can't say R in the isaan, are you?
ฝรั่ง <- there's just a ror rua in it so: faRang
Why not say falang. Only 10% of Thais pronounce the “R”.
I learned to speak Thai myself and when you just pronounce the “R” they say you don't speak like a real Thai.
My wife and her family are NOT from Isaan by the way.
Isan is a part of Thailand. I sometimes get the idea that we're over this
Thailand talk here only about the Isaan.
watch and listen to the official TV (so not the soaps) and radio.
someone with a little education just pronounces the R.
for example, in a random commercial on TV, car is just rotten instead of fate, pineapple saparot instead of sapalot and is tasty arooi instead of alooi.
if someone learns Dutch then they also take abn as a starting point and not flat haags?
right I always get my girlfriend on my head when I say alooi or sapalot, you are not a farmer, I get to hear, haha
It is certainly good to learn to pronounce the 'R'.
I have dealt with it myself with several people.
By the way, the word 'POTATO' is also farang.
My name is BeRnaRdo. They will also master that.
pronouncing my name in an “L” is again more difficult for us. Try it.
That still doesn't answer the question. I also thought that Farang was a corruption of Français. Since I always thought that a Frenchman was the first European to arrive at the Thai court in Thailand in 1848, that seemed more than plausible to me. Who has the answer?
Dear Menno,
The Portuguese had contacts with the Siamese late in the 16th century, immediately afterwards, at the beginning of the 17th century, the Dutch came, with whom they also had the most extensive trade contacts.
The French and English only became interested in the 19th century. There was never a French army, there were some French mercenaries, but they were not very successful.
Farang probably descends from "Franken", the name that crusaders already had with the Arabs, who, by the way, came to Thailand for trade before the Portuguese.
@Jim you have my support. I also think it's sad that some people think they speak Thai when they replace the R with L. I always pronounce the R and here in my village they try to do that too, even though it's a problem for them and they also recognize it.
However, the spelling of both is exactly identical.
You sometimes hear the word “Baksidaa” in the Isaan province, I think this is not such a neat word. I believe it means the same as Guava.
A linguist / Thailand connoisseur who knows how to interpret this??
In the Isan dialect, a guava is also called Mak Seeda. The white foreigner is sometimes called Bak Seeda. Is meant to be just as neutral as farang.
Farang dam is black foreigner
The cry Farang indeed comes more or less from the Arabs who already did business with the then very powerful tribe of Franks and is probably all corrupted into farang. Already in the 17th century there were already contacts between the Thai and the Franks.
source wikipedia
bak seeda, they also use it in Laos, that's right
Dear Hans,
While your comment appears, I too am just looking at Wikipedia. For the sake of completeness, the whole text that I can find. It seems to me a fairly complete and plausible story. In the English text, the word is traced back to the origin of the word. French as coming from Franken, which in turn comes from a corruption of the 'Indo-Persian' word -if I translate this correctly- for foreigner.
See the quotes below. Most interesting!
Wikipedia (NL):
The word most likely comes from farangset, which is the Thai pronunciation of Français, the French word for 'French' or 'Frenchman'. France was the first country to establish cultural ties with Thailand in the 17th century. For the Thais of that time, 'white' and 'French' were the same thing.
And Wikipedia (Eng.)
It is generally believed that the word farang originated with the Indo-Persian word farangi, meaning foreigner. This in turn comes from the word Frank via the Arabic word firinjīyah, which was used to refer to the Franks, a West Germanic tribe that became the biggest political power in Western Europe during the early Middle Ages and from which France derives its name. Due to the fact that the Frankish Empire ruled Western Europe for centuries, the word “Frank” became deeply associated, by the Eastern Europeans and Middle Easterners, with Latins who professed the Roman Catholic faith. By another account the word comes through Arabic (“afranj”), and there are quite a few articles about this. One of the most detailed treatments of the subject is by Rashid al-din Fazl Allâh.[16]
In either case the original word was pronounced firangi in North India or parangiar in Tamil, and entered Khmer as barang and Malay as ferenggi.
So Farang/Falang has to do with Francais, Franconia, France.
I don't live in Isaan, but alternately in two other parts of Thailand.
The correct pronunciation is faRang.
But wherever I am, in most cases I hear the Thai say faLang.
I'm trying to teach a few young people some English words; a lot of attention to the pronunciation: the R just doesn't want to come out well with them.
I keep hammering on the right pronunciation, so faRang, times it is, remains very difficult.
I know a story of someone who explained something to some Thai in neat English:
beautiful sentences, grammar and pronunciation 100% English.
He was not understood.
He came back the following year. He now had a different approach: short sentences and crooked English.
Then he received compliments that he had apparently learned a lot in the past year, because now people could understand him well.
Reminds me of the expression: "If you can't fight them, join them".
So if there is no other way, adjust yourself, then you will come across the clearest.
Comes under the chapter "integration".
Doesn't matter if a cat is black or white as long as it catches mice.