Statement of the week: 'Thailand should keep foreign criminals away'
This week there was a story in the newspaper about an Englishman who, despite a suspended prison sentence, is allowed to go on holiday to Thailand.
The man, sentenced to 3 months suspended prison sentence for open violence and assault, must continuously report to the local police for 1 year. The latter has now been softened somewhat by the court. The criminal, who was not caught for the first time for public violence, is allowed to spend his holiday in Thailand. He had booked that holiday before he committed the crime and the judge ruled that the man did not have to be punished twice by a financial noose. The local press here in Thailand has probably warned police and authorities about this man.
An acquaintance of mine was hit on the head with a billiard cue so hard last week at a bar on Walking Street (at 5am, booze in the man, etc.) by a Swede that he suffered a concussion and a bleeding heart. wound, good for 25 stitches. The perpetrator, a Swede, who had come into contact with the police at home before, happened to leave Thailand on his way home the next day.
Thailand should ban these types of figures and can do so on the basis of the Immigration Act, which requires a Proof of Good Conduct from the applicant for long-term visas. A friend of mine who lived in Italy pointed this out to me, which is listed on the website of the Thai Embassy in Rome. However, there is nothing on the website of the Embassy in the Netherlands and I myself have never received a request to submit a Proof of Good Behavior when applying for a visa.
This article should therefore, in my opinion, be restored. Anyone applying for a visa at an Embassy should provide a 'Certificate of Good Conduct', which shows that they have a clean criminal record.
I undermine my own position, because I know quite a few people here in Thailand who do have a criminal record, have served their sentence and now live in this country as a “good man”.
What is the solution?
I think a "proof of good conduct" goes too far.
I mean, there is open assault and there is overt assault, it can be one punch, but it can also be serious assault, it all falls under assault.
I once punched someone in the distant past, under the eye of the police, and was then given a probationary period for it. There are also people who have done very bad things, but have never been convicted. And they should be allowed to go wherever they want.
Maybe you should look at serious crimes such as murder, attempted manslaughter, rape, robbers, drug lords, etc. differently, but yes, those are people who I don't think should have any freedom at all anymore, but that's another story.
Gentlemen.
If it really should be the case that criminals are not welcome in Thailand.
Then there won't be too many left 50% can go out into the cold again.
But remember that they do not stand out among a large part of the Thai population.
We accept them anyway and don't send them away.
Corruption and violence are normal things here in this country.
So leave it alone Netherlands glad they are gone.
And in this country you have to keep seeing it portatively, you never know how a person can change.
Keep hoping for better times.
Well, you already gave the answer yourself!
Gringo wrote:
I undermine my own position, because I know quite a few people here in Thailand, who do have a criminal record, have served their sentence and now live in this country as a “good man”
In short, nonsense!
Once you've served your sentence, you could never again apply for a visa for anywhere, as you put your position.
Sentence served, criminal record never disappears.
Not feasible, then, as long as you can still buy off criminal acts that plot etc in Thailand with a deposit to the address of uncle agent………… what is the point?
Weird statement Gringo.
What's your point actually? Who could be most affected by foreign criminals? I think in the first place the Thais themselves. I faithfully read Dick's news reports, but I can't remember this being in the news lately. So it is not alive with native Thailand.
I think the case of the Englishman is an example of a well-considered judgment by the English court. This man will take care of himself during his holiday in Thailand. If not, he will be caught here in Thailand and then also in England because of his suspended sentence.
What remains is your acquaintance who was hit on the head with a billiard cue. You have to hear a story like this from both sides to be able to say something meaningful about it.
In short: A statement of nothing. Better luck next time.
It's a statement, ..well ahead of that also an answer.
It should be forbidden for Thai society to be saddled with people like this, all those criminals,… who come here with the money they have obtained from criminal activities and squander criminal money here in Thailand.
Apart from the fact that we should not think about what these people (criminals) might do to Thai people, I also think Thailand is not happy with all these things.
@ Gringo , what are you talking about ?
Gringo's statement does indeed seem a bit muddled, but after thinking about it for a while, I can understand his displeasure.
If someone already shows [heavy] criminal behavior in their own country, why would that person behave 'pussy' in Thailand?
Try entering the US if you have a criminal record. Why is it possible there?
Or that program about Australian customs at the airports, where people have to indicate whether they have a criminal record.
Fighting won't work, for the same reason Gringo said. It may well be that an [older] criminal in Thailand wants to start over as a 'good man'. In Thailand [or any other country] he is not known and he can leave his past behind.
But the, usually younger, figures can be made a bit more difficult [following the Australian example].
IMHO.
Every country should do that, but it is simply impossible. If only in connection with the ability and willingness to exchange information about people. Long live the privacy legislation that plays into the hands of criminals.
In addition, it is precisely these figures that generate a lot of turnover and that is what it is all about in the world.
I completely agree with the statement. This should include the foreigners who are very misbehaving. ( Fighting / Dealing Damage / Theft / Scam
During my five-year stay in Udonthani, also known to many Dutch people, was often not the top of the nation, much as crazy as a door. However, also good and solid people.
Not bound by nationality.
The statement should have been: “Once a thief, always a thief?”
You are not a criminal until you have been convicted. If you have been convicted, you have normally received a sentence and once you have fulfilled that sentence, nothing should stand in the way of you leading a normal life. Legislation in many countries is based on this.
There are probably also plenty of people without a criminal record who can seriously misbehave. What to do with this people? If people, with or without proof of good behavior, misbehave somewhere, that is a matter for the local police. He will have to take action, after all, that is what this body is intended for.
What I don't understand in the story is that people apparently knew that the Swede was a criminal brawler. If I come across a case where criminal brawlers are walking around, I go around the street. Just a matter of common sense. Apparently some people lack that and then you ask for misery, or, as in this case, for a cue in the neck.
Next statement: “Is prevention better than cure?”
Unfortunately I cannot agree with things that have happened in your own country and are not considered welcome here in Thailand, If you have served a sentence or have been on probation in your own country, it has nothing to do with going on holiday to any country also in the world you have had your sentence and you should not be discriminated against for that, but I am in favor of people who want to stay in Thailand for a long stay or for good that they should provide proof of good behavior with the visa application can provide proof of income, this is already a certainty that one can build a life in Thailand without getting into financial problems, every person is entitled to a new chance, in Thailand it is true that when you have committed a crime after your conviction is deported from the country and declared non grata,
Greetings,
Pascal
I don't think you can say that you have to have a clean criminal record to enter Thailand. Then it will be very quiet in Pataya I think.
It doesn't take much to get a criminal record
For example. You have ever stolen something in a store worth 3 or 4 euros
That's a crime. You get caught and you have a criminal record
Your driver's license is confiscated and you drive home secretly, then you are committing a crime
And do you have a criminal record
Log into your ex-boss's system. is a crime. so on.
And that remains for 30 years
You shouldn't do such things, I know, but whether those are reasons for you
Not allowed in Thailand.
Then you know that people with such a minor offense are allowed in
I think that would be an impossible search
Don't do my opinion
minor offenses are allowed, this does not mean that if your criminal record is not blank that you will be refused at all times.
I have a one year visa and have to present proof of good conduct every year and that doesn't bother me.
In Belgium, your punishments will be removed after a certain period, and you can start again with a quiet life or not!
Moderator: Leave a comment in which you write whether you agree or disagree with the statement and why.
Moderator: What does your comment have to do with the statement?
I am surprised that people have been given a visa without having to provide proof of good conduct. Now that evidence refers to whether you have ever been convicted minus any wrongful convictions (I would think that makes sense). In any case, I was sentenced - during the military service and on false charges - to 14 days of strict arrest, after which I was acquitted before the High Military Court (HMG) and given six months' compensatory leave. I still had six months left and could therefore immediately leave the service “neither due to physical nor mental disabilities”. (It was not stated why). Mind you, that alleged crime took place in 1960. In addition, I had received a combined sentence of almost 100 days of light and aggravated arrest, but that because of 'crimes' that are only a crime while in service (button loosened, hair too long, etc.). Moreover, I was known to the cadres as a “traitor” and “communist”. That was apparently mentioned on my condolence statement, and it really made no sense, except perhaps that I had once spoken out quite anti-Nazi. In the late 50s, there was certainly black and white thinking in the army: the Germans needed “we” to stop the Russians, “so”. Well, what comes after “so”, as a professional puts it …
By the way, I had become proficient in writing complaints. Any fellow soldier could come to me and if his complaint was justified - often it was - I wrote his complaint. Finally, I also wrote a complaint in my own case (that complaint was rejected, which I was not satisfied with, and so I ended up at the HMG).
Anyway, years later when I wanted to move to Thailand permanently, I was told I needed proof of good conduct. And I also got my certificate of good conduct, after which I applied to the Thai embassy for my retirement visa. So far nothing really special. But then she did not want to issue me a visa at that embassy, at least not a retirement visa and only after many repeated visits did she receive a 'normal' visa. I insisted I wanted a retirement visa and nothing else; having to go to immigration every 3 months is so far, but having to leave the country every 3 months in order to stay in, I thought that was a bit too much and also so illogical (having to leave to stay in, who comes up with something like that?). Moreover: once out, it could mean that there were difficulties in getting back in again.
My suspicion has since been that you are not just allowed to leave the Netherlands permanently if you are registered with the BVD with a negative note (now called AIVD and it is a big mess there). The Thais don't take any risks. A sheep with a spot is an infected sheep. In the end, I, the persistence, won. Not until after having visited the Thai embassy a dozen times. It took months. All this time they kept my passport. I didn't say anything about that, so as not to spoil my chances, but that they - those Thais there - did that, I could of course have fallen over.
Why am I telling this story? Well, because I also feel that notorious criminals should not have access to Thailand. How they now obtain their visa (and what kind of visa that is) I do not know. It is not impossible that these rich (im)people pay a lot of money, but again: I don't know. A real criminal probably also knows how to get a fake passport (not me) and possibly enter Thiland that way.
What I do know is that well-intentioned, even obvious measures can backfire. It is not then the real criminals who are deprived of their freedom of movement, but (for example and in particular) those people who have incurred a record with the BVD, alias the AIVD. No control is possible on this club (and again - I refer to reports about it in the Dutch newspapers) it is a mess (and that - one might suspect - has been for a long time).
Moderator: All very interesting, but has little to do with a sensible response to the statement.
I agree with the statement.
Personally, I am in favor of requiring proof of conduct and morals.
However, it does not have to be blank.
The country must be given the opportunity to decide, on the basis of this evidence, whether the penalties incurred are serious enough to justify a possible refusal.
Then let it apply to every way one enters the country.
It makes no sense to require proof for someone who wants to stay for 3 months or a year, and then not require anything when it concerns a stay of 30 days.
As if that person will behave differently in those 30 days. On the contrary I would say.
Is this a warranty and has the problem been resolved?
Of course not, and it never will be.
It is not because you have not been "caught" and therefore have a clean sheet, that you are innocence itself, but it gives the country the opportunity to deny access to risk people or at least they know that if approved, there are people walking around with increased risk behavior.
As it is now, Mr Moderator, criminals enter Thailand just like that and people (like me) with false accusations that have given them a negative note (not even on their clean criminal record) are apparently banned in principle . My criminal record has been cleared because of the unprovable nature of the offense; it was a false accusation. Well, I'm allowed to hang and strangle in Thailand (but I don't dare get out, because then I might not be able to get back in). This effect - that the wrong person is judged - is amplified if people pay more attention. It then becomes even more tempting to say: he has no criminal record at the moment, but there was still something - something unclear - going on with him. They find that creepy.
A small offense, which is clear: nothing wrong, no offense at all, but there was still something unclear: you will be banned.
To the point: if a measure (or another guideline) means something, even if you support that intention, it may still be an objection to simply implement that measure or guideline blindly.
In case mister moderator finds all this (again) irrelevant, but still interesting: my offense (I was 23 years old at the time) would have been that I had made love to someone who -in terms of age- my father could be. I should not think about it; Mind you: I can do it, but that's something else. In the meantime, the alleged offense is no longer a crime, that's for sure. Not at all in Thailand.
The subject does not have much to do with Thailand. I think criminals can be banned everywhere, but unfortunately that is not possible in practice. Those who have served their sentence are free again and equal to others according to our standards.
That seems nice, but it isn't. If you study recidivism, you come to shocking conclusions. Those people who have served their sentences are released back into society, where they can make new victims. That is how it is arranged with us. Criminals are entitled to a second chance (and a third and a fourth). Victims often do not. Although Thailand does not prevent them, the rigid Thai penal system does have a deterrent effect, so that many scolds keep a low profile here and indeed, they also bring in money.
Criminals sing a little lower here because they are dealt with harshly and thrown out of the country with a blacklist, or a red card. Applying for a certificate of good conduct for a visa could be a solution, and this has been discussed for a long time, but I think it will be very quiet in Pattaya.
In 2003 I was already asked to provide proof of a blank criminal record. I actually got that, but it still wasn't enough. Now of two things one: either you cannot enter Thailand without that proof, or they make an exception (whether or not at will) to the rule that no proof of good behavior is required. Lee Vanonschot.