On Thailandblog it is often discussed: Emigrate to Thailand. Readers ask questions and expats/retirees talk about their experiences of living in Thailand.
However, we have to comment on this, because the word 'emigrate' does not cover the load. Unlike the traditional emigration countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc., someone cannot settle permanently in Thailand. After all, you will receive an annual visa for temporary residence and you must report properly every three months. You can only extend your annual visa if you meet the visa requirements. For example, if you have insufficient income, you will have to leave Thailand again.
There can also be no question of emigration to Thailand because in addition to the temporary stay that is linked to strict visa rules (income), you are also not allowed to participate in Thai society. Think of working, voting, buying land, being active in politics, etc. Getting hold of a Thai passport, which immigrants in the Netherlands can get after a while, is completely out of the question. The requirements for this are so strict and rigid that no one will dare to do so.
Isn't the term 'emigrating to Thailand' a form of wishful thinking? After all, isn't it really just about temporary living under strict conditions?
But you may disagree with the above. Indicate why not and respond to the statement: Emigration to Thailand is not possible!
Actually, we all know we do, but we like to deny it. So we go into endless discussions about who is right on a subject such as: can the house I paid for be registered in my name? Which makes it seem like we can stay here in TH until the end of days.
The irony of our fate, however, is that only with sufficient income you can stay for a year at a time, and the rest is secondary. Married to a Thai? Biological, step, adoptive or foster father of Thai children? Owner of a condo, or payer of a house? Your name in a company, or on the back of a chanot? A yellow house book in hand, rental and purchase contracts? All secondary. Working as an expat in education or in your own company? Get out without a work permit!
Only what demonstrably points to meeting the income requirements is not valid.
There was once a story on Thailandblog about a Dutch woman who spent many years as a nun in a Buddhist temple. When her money was used up, there was no one from the Sangha to help her (to put it nicely). Destitute and robbed, she had to return to NL.
Don't think you can integrate or integrate either. That is different from feeling sabaai among the Thai people in your village, neighborhood or district. No matter how well you speak Thai, you are still a farang. You are never allowed to participate in thinking about and developing a village community, for example. Never an administrative function at local municipality level. No direct involvement with the ins and outs of the local temple. No influence on the educational structures of schools attended by your children.
And the most annoying thing: no legal certainty and no legal equality in the police and judiciary. Lawyers who show you a different way, and courts that rule differently.
How pleasant and well-informed you think you are: it's just adapting to circumstances and situations. Neither civil nor social it has any status. Just report again in 3 months, and show a bank book or income statement again in a year. With signature under each sheet of photocopy, and not to forget: the stamp! Because that's what it's all about. Another year!
That's right, emigrating to Thailand is not possible! If you have lived in Thailand after 10 years, you can set up a procedure to obtain Thai nationality. Difficult, but possible.
Our visa to stay for a year is no different than a residence permit, which has the possibility that it can be revoked. (usually when you've been naughty)
The 90 day notification has nothing to do with your visa, but the purpose of this is to know if you are still staying at the right address. It is mandatory to provide them with an address change in time.
If you don't do that, you are naughty and that can (after repeat) have consequences for your visa..
It is fortunate that your visa does not have to be extended every 3 months, because then you also have to cough up an income statement every 3 months and that could sometimes be a burden. since that letter can only be 6 months old.
I assume you understand what I mean. The essence of the story is that you can stay for a year and you have an obligation to report. You can't call that emigration. Incidentally, if you do not report after three months, will your annual visa remain in force unchanged? I do not think so….
With this example of an old woman whose obligations are bought off by fines, you confirm exactly what the statement means. Fraud has nothing to do with that!
The statement is not correct. Emigrating to Thailand is indeed possible, I am an example of it myself.
The simple meaning of the word emigrate is: “to leave your own country to live in another country” No more and no less.
The fact that Thailand has all kinds of rules and visa regulations for new foreign residents has nothing to do with the concept of emigration. Other countries have different (often simpler, admittedly!) requirements. For example, I believe that nowadays you cannot just emigrate to Australia without knowledge of the English language and without mastering a trade.
So I live permanently in Thailand and that will only end when I exchange the temporary with the eternal.
Another anecdote about the word temporary: In my younger years at the office, a young lady from an employment agency came to introduce herself and said: "I'm Carla, I'm only here temporarily!" A colleague, who had been employed for more than 40 years, said: "It's funny you say that, because I'm only here temporarily"
Welles. You have not emigrated because then you will receive or have a residence permit. You have a non-immigrant visa which is extended every year for one year AND can be revoked at any time of any day, without giving any reason, whether you like it or not. You're just a tourist, just like me. For 40+ years. Hun Peter is right. You again, Nietes.
Ha, ha, Theo, indeed yes/no, you can also see it in the other reactions.
Everyone can call it what he / she wants, but I have left the Netherlands and now live permanently in Thailand and I call that emigration, finished, period.
Incidentally, the word emigrate is hardly ever used in expat conversations. The question is usually, are you here on vacation or do you live here?
Dear Bert,
Living does not mean that you have emigrated. Not even if you have left the Netherlands, burned all the ships behind you and had you deregistered. In fact, you are (except for your passport) “stateless”. Whether or not you "live" in Thailand does not change that. You can only stay in Thailand for a limited time under certain conditions. Moreover, it does not give you any legal certainty. So it is and nothing else, whatever name you give it.
Even if you live “permanently” in TH, go and visit a neighboring country, without having reported this intention to Immigration, without signatures and stamp and payment, and see how quickly you have exchanged the permanent for the temporary! Whether you have lived here for 10 or 20 years, because that is your starting point: only 30 days upon your return, and even if you have home and hearth, wife and children, bank book and tabien job: you may start a residence permit again. point, out, done!
Agree with Gringo, although I also understand what Khun Peter means. Nevertheless, emigration means no more or less than Gringo describes.
It is indeed possible to emigrate permanently, but you must complete a 3-year process:
New Thai Laws make it easier than ever for foreigners wishing to become Thai Citizens to get expedited citizenship if they meet certain criteria. For a foreigner to be granted Thai citizenship under Thai law, he or she must be living and working in Thailand for 3 continuous years prior to application and be able to speak and understand basic Thai.
The benefits of Thai citizenship are numerous for those who choose this path. After your application has been approved and citizenship granted, the applicant is no longer considered a foreigner and therefore is entitled to ALL of the benefits of every other Thai National, including:
•Ability to own homes, businesses, and land 100% in your name
• No Thai Work Permit or Thai Visa issues EVER AGAIN
• Ability to apply for a Thai Passport
• Ability to be the sole (100% owner) shareholder in any Thai company
Qualifications for EXPEDITED Citizenship:
•Applicant must have been living in Thailand for at least 3 consecutive years
•Applicant must have been employed and paying tax for at least 3 consecutive years
•Applicant must be married to Thai citizen
•Applicant must have full legal status to be in Thailand and have a current Thai Visa
•Applicant must show good moral behavior with no criminal convictions
•Applicant must have minimal Thai language skills (we will assist you with this)
But you have to do a little more than fill out a form.
I think you have to give up your Dutch nationality because then you opt for Thai nationality. Is this correct?
Cees,
Theoretically perhaps possible, but in my 35 years in Thailand I have never met anyone who has obtained Thai nationality without first going through the procedure for permanent residency.
Cees,
What you have copied here in English does not look like an official publication from the Thai Immigration Service but more like an advertisement from some agency.
When citing a text, it is customary to use quotation marks, and more importantly, to indicate the source of such information.
The danger here is that the TB readers would have received incorrect information from you.
Emigration (according to the law and not as described by Gringo) is possible but very difficult. I myself have a permanent residence permit and my name is in the blue family booklet. I only have to report once every 1 years to extend the residence permit and documents or income statements are not required. If I want I can apply for Thai nationality and I will get it after about 5 years. Difficult yes, impossible? So no.
How do you do that Peter? ?Courtesy visa?
Dear Han,
A Courtesey Visa has nothing to do with this. A Coutesey visa is the result of an official invitation from the Thai government.
If you want to know more about a “Permanent Residence” you can read more about it via this link from Immigration.
http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=residence
(if going to the main page of Bangkok.immigration, then left on the icon – “Criteria and conditions for foreign nationals' residential permit consideration”
If you then click on 'More details' or 'Detailed information' you will receive more information about that subject of the application.
Each year, the maximum number of permanent residence permits that will be allowed is announced.
For this year this was 100 per nationality as you can read below
The application for 2015 had to be submitted between 14-30 January 2015
Notification of Immigration Bureau
Admission of application for residential permit in the year BE 2557(2014)
According to the notification from Minister of interior by approval of the cabinet issued on December, 29 BE 2557 (2014) regarding quota of aliens to have residence in the Kingdom for the year 2014 the following stipulations are applied.
1. 100 persons of each nationality, Colony or colonies of each country shall be considered as one country while each Sovereign state shall be considered as one country and 50 persons for stateless people.
2. The application can be submitted on the date 14-30 th of January BE 2558 (2015) during office hours.
3. Place to submit the application:
In Bangkok:
contact at Sub-division 1 ,Immigration Division 1, The Government Complex Commemorating His Majesty The King's 80th Birthday Anniversary,5th December, BE 2550 (2007), Building B, 2 Floor, Counter D, 120 Moo 3, Chaengwattana Road, Thungsonghong Sub -District, Bangkok 10210
In other regions : contact at local or near by Immigration Office/Checkpoint,
Enjoy reading.
Ronnie,
Thanks for the further explanation. 100 per nationality per year has been the case for decades. This is not an obstacle for the Dutch, but it is for the Chinese. As far as I know, only a few dozen have actually been issued since 2006.
True and will in principle remain so, but it must legally be announced annually by the Minister of the Interior.
I even remember there was once trouble around there because there was no government.
Hello Peter,
Interesting what you say about the permanent residence permit you obtained.
Would you like to tell me a little more about that, and what steps you had to take for that?
Thank you in advance.
Greetings from a Peter too
If you have had a non-immigrant annual visa for 3 consecutive years, you can apply for a permanent residence permit for Thailand. You can already apply for this permit as soon as the 3rd extension has been obtained. So already after 2 years of applying.
A permanent residence permit for Thailand is quoted to a maximum of 100 applications per nationality per year.
Thai citizenship is also quoted at a maximum of 100 applications per nationality per year.
Postscript:
Thailand blog has also been written about this before. Here it says: https://www.thailandblog.nl/lezersvraag/thailand-permanent-visum/
It should have been under “Related Articles on Thailandblog” as well.
Here you will find the whole procedure.
http://www.wikihow.com/Become-a-Thai-Resident
It doesn't seem difficult. But it won't be really easy.
PetervZ, like Han, I am very curious how you got that permanent residence permit for 5 years, did you first have a Visa O or OA? Or are you here with a Workpermit? I am very curious!
Gringo is right, to emigrate is to live in another country with the intention of never leaving that country again, that definition is absolutely correct. If you then also deregister from your previous country of residence, you have emigrated.
The fact that Thailand has attached a considerable number of conditions to your intended permanent residence is another matter. So Peter is also, a bit, right, you are not based on a permanent residence status in Thailand. But if you meet those conditions, you will obtain permanent residence status, that's right, under certain conditions. Of course I would like to see that differently, but that is not the reality.
So it really comes down to your own way of thinking and sticking to the rules about this.
Nico B
Others have already indicated where information about a permanent residence permit can be found.
On Nico's question, the permit is permanent and not for 5 years. But just as a Thai has to get a new ID every few years, someone with a Permanent Resident has to validate it with a more recent photo. You do this at the police station in the district where you are registered.
I've had these for 25 years and can't remember exactly what was needed.
Completely correct Peter, and I was also offered a free permanent residence permit by the governor of Chonburi after my Sir installing, and because I was charity Chairman for 10 years, and still am of the Pattaya Expat Club. worldwide income tax. You can also buy this permanent residence permit, at the time for 195.000 baht. yes what is not for sale here. I opt for an annual residence permit, I own 100% of my houses in a company with share transfers and preferential share, and I have a yellow house booklet. That's all I need and don't want to get involved in any more systems. I hand in some forms once a year and pick up my passport with a new annual visa the next day with a multiple entry. Incidentally, I do know 2 friends who have a Thai passport, but I don't see that many advantages.
Why all this nitpicking about the terms emigrate, extend annual visa, notification obligation and income. 🙁 Know several farang who were only too happy to proclaim 'nothing can happen to me, I've arranged my affairs here in Thailand', they returned to their homeland with drooping legs.
Soi knows how to express it in clear language as it actually is and not otherwise. Tribute!
Hi, was at Immigration in Pattaya this morning, for a re-entry of
1000 baht; at the airport 1200 due to the photo.
Don't forget this act! You have to pay again for your living
to enter the country, especially not to lose the Annual Visa.
So I support the statement that you did not emigrate to Thailand
with a Retirement Visa, as I call it for the sake of convenience.
Don't have to pay if I want to re-enter Spain or the Netherlands.
The threat of having to leave the country because of the bad Euro exchange rate,
pension and AOW are no longer sufficient, even with the money on the
couch, a car, a house, a moped, a Thai partner and cats and
dogs there. And after filling the middle class with 8 Thai years.
Funny those puns… but I think you can emigrate to Thailand (seen from the Netherlands -> deregistered from the Netherlands), but immigrating is a different story.
Besides, why would you want that? I like living here and I want to stay as long as possible.
And what will happen if you no longer have enough to live on due to the many crises that are currently seriously threatening the economy in Europe? When the money tap is turned off? Let me answer it myself: then it would indeed be better if you could immigrate here.
But the statement itself: is not correct, you can do it, but as a rule do not.
I can emigrate to Thailand.
Immigration In Thailand is a bit more difficult.
However, the matter seems a bit more complex to me.
If my extension of stay were to be seen purely as tourism, in my opinion you would not be eligible for registration with the tax authorities.
Furthermore, many people stay in Thailand on the basis of a 50 plus visa.
It is therefore not so obvious that this regulation will also be abolished.
That could get the Thai government into trouble with the governments of many other countries.
They would probably protest if their subjects were simply kicked out of the country, leaving behind their condominium, car, furniture and the rest.
I don't expect any problems at all with the people who are married.
It is possible to emigrate (= deregister in the Netherlands or Belgium). Immigrating to Thailand is also possible, but it is not easy.
In Flanders people say about this discussion, "buzz in pakskes"
As long as you meet the conditions of exclusion and do not commit serious crimes, you can stay here until your last breath. And whether or not you emigrate, immigrate or give it another name is not important at all.
What is important is that Thailand is one of the few countries in the world that has a very clear and cheap arrangement for a stay based on retirement, which costs barely 1900 Baht (51 EURO) per year. In countries like Cambodia you pay a minimum of 30 US$ per month.
And on top of that….. yes, great legal certainty; Because when in 1998 the ages and financial guarantees were adjusted to obtain an extension based on retirement. Were the old conditions for everyone who stayed here continuously before that date not adjusted
Just look at the regulations
(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:
(a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000.
(b) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000.
And that they ask for financial proof that a pensioner is able to spend his stay here comfortably, one cannot blame them.
For Immigration: In Australia or New Zealand you either need to have found a job locally, or a large wad of money to start/take over a business (everything proven on paper, with stamps from the bank etc). passing health checks – this is only possible in a few hospitals; it certainly isn't allowed everywhere. High bloodpressure? Bad luck. BMI must be below 30.
In Australia you also have to be younger than 45, NZ does not
Pensioners can immigrate there, but it costs so much that only rich people can afford it.
Of course you can always go on holiday, but emigrating is extremely strict and expensive.
So all in all I think it's not too bad here in Thailand.
Small, but not unimportant note on Cees' story about relaxing the rules. I have the impression that the question of emigrating/relocating mainly concerns pensioners. The new rules state that in addition to living in Thailand, one must also have worked and paid taxes for at least 3 years. That makes it difficult for most people.
I'm dizzy again tonight after all those many reactions.
But immigrating to Thailand is not possible , that 's TRUE .
You can stay here for long or short periods , on any kind of fishing bait .
You can pay taxes here just like me and you even get a registration number.
A residents permit etc etc.
That consisting of 13 digits number is the same as in your Yellow home book, and on your driver's licenses.
But you certainly DO NOT GET a Thai ID card like my spouse with 13 numbers.
If even like me you lease land and real estate , according to Thai legal rules .
Two stepchildren have successfully completed their university education.
Have all necessary Thai driving licenses.
To date I have a lot of money in Thai banks.
But oh woe if something should ever go wrong.
And I was no longer allowed to meet the retirement visa rules.
Then the officer says at the emigration in CM .
Dear Mr. Janneman go home to your country where you have come from, so the Netherlands.
Emigrating as in the past and sometimes today is usually to countries such as Canada , Australia , New Zealand , Brazil or the US .
But Thailand no , unless you can or want to become a Thai citizen .
But that is not so simple and a completely different story.
Jan Beute.
Dear Corretje, Sorry,
If you read the article carefully, there is clearly an annual visa with which you can stay temporarily, and you must report neatly every 3 months, and that you can extend this visa if you meet the visa requirements, and this is completely correct . It read from you, extending for 3 months, is only in your response, but is nowhere to be read in the above article by Khun Peter, who clearly talks about reporting. The fact that you mention an example of a Chinese lady who, through corrupt acts by her son, is allowed to stay without reporting or extending her visa is a nice story, but has nothing to do with the existing rules that officially apply.
I don't care what you call it.
Remember that life is also temporary.
You can indeed emigrate fairly cheaply in Thailand …….. if you die here and are buried or cremated, you are eternally in Thailand …
Couldn't resist adding my nitpick
(laugh out loud)
Thanks everyone for the comments. We close the discussion.