Statement of the week: It is normal that you have to pay if you keep a table occupied!
What happened earlier this week at a busy Bon Café in Bangkok that received quite a bit of attention on social media? Someone went for coffee with three friends in the shop and on departure was billed not only for the four coffees, but also for occupying the table for two full hours. Four coffees were 240 Baht and for the occupation of the table 1000 Baht per hour was charged.
After protesting to the manager, that 2000 Baht was deleted, but the “victim” still thought it necessary to post the 2.240 Baht bill on Facebook, commenting, of course, that he thought it was ridiculous. The Thai Consumer Protection Board intervened and asked Bon Café for an explanation. He defended the extra costs by saying that occupying a table for a long time – for meetings or something – with little consumption costs the business turnover, because other potential customers do not come in when the tables are occupied. The consumer protection bureau agreed with Bon Café, all the more so because a notice was placed on every table at the coffee shop announcing that possible additional tax.
I fully endorse the Consumer Protection Board's decision. Such a coffee shop, complete with air conditioning, is of course an ideal place for a (prolonged) meeting. The manager has an interest in turnover and I think it is logical and understandable that in some cases extra money is asked for occupying the table. The same goes for outdoor terraces: sit outside under a parasol with a fan for a cooling breeze and then watch the passing public for a few hours. In my opinion, a certain time may apply per consumption to then either be obliged to order a consumption or to leave.
These “excesses” also occur in the Netherlands. Nice weather, grab a terrace in the city or on the beach and linger there for hours with a Spa or a cup of coffee. I think that after a while the waiting staff will also drop by to give a hint: order or leave!
I am curious about your opinion and experiences with this "problem". Our Belgian friends are of course also allowed to respond, but I think that this is typical of Dutch frugality (read: avarice!).
At first glance, the “residence tax” was greatly exaggerated, and there was also the Pattayan “one more?” can apply ..., but upon further calculation ... how in God's name do you do that, 1 cup of coffee for more than 2 hours? Sipping carefully..., just sniffing the scent every x number of minutes? …. or .... put the thermos somewhere in the shopping bag ..... (wink..!)
Sounds ridiculous at first, but upon closer inspection, it isn't. Actually quite a good idea, a lower price for drinks and then a separate amount per table per hour. But make it clear on the map. Then someone who sits down somewhere for an appointment does not have to feel compelled to knock back a drink every XNUMX minutes and the manager is also compensated.
It may sound ridiculous but as you can read it was mentioned on the table. So people were warned in advance then it is normal that they charge for this.
There are of course plenty of other coffee shops and cafes !!
as a hospitality entrepreneur it is normal that turnover is needed.
already live hairs in hua hin and know many of these cases .
order a bottle of water and keep the couch occupied for a few hours,
enjoy free internet and watch TV.
I agree with entrepreneurs that they are going to charge money for this.
William, Hua Hin
With us in the railway dining cars, there used to be a restriction of 20 minutes per consumption. It is natural that in a catering establishment one pays for the facilitation and ambiance which is included in the price with a normal consumption pattern, but it is becoming more and more common practice. globally (starting in Japan) to charge for the use of space/presence and to charge for consumption at cost price.
The same happens in many hamburger shops such as McDonalds where entire groups of students sit for hours to do their homework. With not too many drinks. In some places there is an announcement on the wall stating that the maximum stay is 1 hour. But that is of course difficult to 'enforce', especially because the Thais want to avoid confrontation.
I think Bon Cafe's approach is good as long as it is very clearly indicated on the tables. Such a business with air conditioning, free interest, cannot of course survive on the wind.
But ultimately a lot will depend on the 'decency' of the clientele not to abuse it. And that is sometimes lacking in Thailand...
Moreover, in most of such coffee shops you have free WI-FI on top. Usually they are people who even have their laptop with them, and finish their correspondence, etc. there.
You would rather lose such customers than rich.
I personally find 30 minutes the absolute maximum per cup of coffee. Either you order something else or you leave the store.
By the way, I thought that Starbucks also applied this for a very long time.
Dear,
It is more than normal to be charged extra. This happens everywhere in France, but also in many tourist or busy places. I was recently in Brussels and on the Belgian coast and, like in France, 3 rates are charged there. The cheapest at the bar, the middle rate at a table and the most expensive rate on the terrace. (double that at the bar). It is becoming increasingly common that consuming 1 drink entitles you to use a table for a maximum of half an hour. Personally, I think this is a good system, as the catering industry must realize its turnover in a relatively short time. And if you want to gape at the passers-by, sit on a bench and you will have all the time in the world to admire the passers-by. And it's free. The same applies to certain ladies who go into a clothing store, keep the saleswoman busy and ultimately don't buy anything.
3 rates have been applied in France for many years! Nobody bothers about that.
The operators of catering establishments want to make a profit, they have invested, and sometimes not even a little! That's why I think it's normal that people charge 'table or chair money' to relax in the cool room without consuming too much. After all, they also have to pay for the electricity.
Once again we have to conclude that people are 'misusing' social media to prove their point. Also because then people only publish half the truth.
I agree with the catering owners and most writers.
No one is waiting for these figures, for a dime in the ringside, and then you complain on Facebook.
Hotel / apartment also already milked, towel was already on the beach bed, at breakfast let the lunch disappear in the bag. This is how splinter gets through the winter.
For tourists of any decency, for me these figures are the biggest annoyance of the holiday.
Actually, every guest should think a bit that it is not normal to occupy a table for so long with, for example, a consumtion. And for those people who can't think, it should be plain to read. If your entrepreneur has to deal with customers who can't think or read, I think it's normal if you use other means.
I find this very normal people who I call something like freeloaders, they run a business to earn
Go to Vietnam, there you will see Starbucks and the national (Starbucks) coffee shop Highlands full of coffee almost everywhere, largely Vietnamese. With prices for a cup of coffee equivalent to Starbucks, I also wondered whether those Vietnamese are suddenly making so much money. but everyone wants to sit at a table, preferably in an armchair to be seen in those coffee shops. On closer inspection you see that most Vietnamese people drink an ice coffee, you can easily sip it for an hour or more, it doesn't get cold!
But you also see that tables for four are occupied by 4, in many cases only 1 drinks a paying drink, the others drink the free tea. Now Highlands thinks they have found a solution and their cakes that used to cost 45.000 VND, now only cost 29000vnd, but you barely get a third of the original size. Many Vietnamese people bring their laptops and sit there for hours with just one drink, occupying the nicest seats, where they are free to put those plates on the table.
If you offer internet, you get such excesses. I think that as a manager it is not appropriate that you poach the customers in this way. First of all, you need to know if the place is packed. For a catering establishment it is a plus that a few tables are occupied. If the place is full, the waiter can handle such situations in a friendly manner. A wise trader ALWAYS agrees with the client. You cannot WIN by rolling a client.
No, it is not normal that you have to pay if you keep a table occupied. The Consumer Protection Board apparently agrees, since the fact that it was clearly indicated at every table weighs heavily in the final decision.
It is also not normal if you consume one drink every two hours.
In such a case, it is normal to insist on multiple orders, or to be asked to leave the building.
Paying purely for the table is abnormal, but also so understandable that it is allowed, provided it is clearly indicated.
I think there should be a sign in the shop or on the tables if before drinking coffee you can't use a table for an hour or more. And then don't go to another table and continue chatting there.
Seems very labour-intensive to me if the waiting staff have to keep track of time limits per table/group/consumption, and several endless discussions would arise, what seems half an hour to one person, is barely 20 minutes to another.
I myself had a restaurant in the Netherlands, without Wi-Fi, but well, there you also had the frugal users, but overall it is not too bad (in the Netherlands). Here, where I now live in Philippines, I occasionally see the same table abuse/behaviour, but nothing will ever be said about this. Sometimes there are just people who sit inside, place a minimal order, really minimal, and also bring their own rice and then consume it there. Wouldn't know what I'd do if I had an eatery here. Never really thought about it actually.
Time control is easy to achieve through the cash register. I sometimes visit a Japanese restaurant, where for a fixed amount you can eat as much as you want from the dishes that pass your table on a conveyor belt.
As soon as you are seated a receipt will be placed on your table with the time of arrival and the time (I thought an hour and a half later) that you are supposed to leave.
I think a friendly request whether you would like to order something or leave elsewhere is a better solution. If it is a location where it is common to sit for a very long time and spend very little, then as an operator I would put up a sign stating that the maximum stay per consumption is (for example) half an hour. A clearly indicated fine for sitting for an extremely long time would be my second choice, if only to avoid discussions about how long someone has been sitting and how high the fine should be. Of course it also goes without saying that a manager has an advantage if only a few tables remain occupied for a long time, then from the outside it appears as if there is good customer service and people are more likely to enter a business where there are already some people than one that is almost deserted. case.
Maybe a time clock is an idea, but it seems very un-Thai to me. I also know people who walk into all kinds of go-go bars without ever paying barfine. How do you manage all that. Just regulate everything. No more than two hours in an air-conditioned mall. Lumphini park in ok, but out within two hours and those who still don't have a visa stamp in their passport after two hours should come back the next day, because they have used the immigration facilities long enough. The Thai ladies are already ahead with prices according to duration, although it is not entirely clear how long short time exactly is.
The solution is actually simple. Just change the name to Bon café short time coffee bar.
2000 baht? That is almost 54 euros for two hours sitting at a table? This is just a scam and has nothing to do with lost sales!
That has nothing to do with cheating. You can prevent point 1 by placing a new order on time, and point 2: if 3 or 4 people come to drink coffee or whatever at that table, it can easily change every half hour, which means that the manager has already had a whole towards that amount. Point 3, with low 'fines' people are not stimulated.
This also reminds me of the very first time I came to London (1967!!). In a Wimpy bar (nowadays such a place is called MacDonalds) at the Piccadilly Circus. Pretty much the hotspot in London.
We ordered a Wimpy and were kindly asked 2 minutes later to eat it outside, because by staying inside we prevented new customers from coming in to order something. and, admittedly: it was very busy there. Even then, so. (for the old-timers among us: Popeye with his friend Wimpy...? 😉 ) Anyone have any idea what the rent for such a building is in one of the most expensive places on this planet?…
2000 bht may be a bit much, but I always get annoyed when there are students there
Who are making their house soft, and then also place their bags on the chairs next to them
The owner wants to earn a living and rightly so.
Maybe?? No…. This is a lot of money, also in the Netherlands and especially in Thailand! And that for an ordinary coffee shop... really crazy!
I would rather opt for a minimum amount with a maximum time.
If you see the requested 'compensation' for sitting at a table as compensation for lost profit - and it is, it seems - then 1000 baht per hour is a lot. Can't imagine that amount is earned per table by serving cups of coffee at 60 baht each…………
Disagreeing to charge money for a table is ridiculous, they can also ask if you want something to drink and then you feel like you are being asked to go. Because how am I going to approach this? I always drink coke myself, but my husband likes to have a beer or coffee and then likes to sit somewhere for a while (okay, briefly) but I'm not going to drink coke every time because that's too much for me. Should I wait outside from now on?
So yes I sometimes occupy a place without ordering anything. Too bad then.
Dear Jeroen.
I don't think the discussion is about the amount.
The discussion is about the behavior of these people.
If it is normal to occupy 2 chairs with 4 cups of coffee for 4 hours, the catering entrepreneur will miss out on a considerable amount of turnover and customers.
The,
In the hospitality industry, every chair has to pay for itself. To sit there for 2 hours and eat almost nothing is of course not possible. Gr Rob
The amount here is of course absurdly high. Still, I like the idea of charging money for staying at the table. Wouldn't it be great if, in addition to the price of consumption, you also pay per minute for taking up space. This could be achieved with a modern cash register system that calculates these costs automatically.
When a certain drink used to cost 50 THB, now they might charge 40 THB.
In addition, another 1 THB per minute for a seat at the bar, 2 THB / min. for a normal seat (per person) at a table and 3 THB / min. for a more luxurious table. And maybe also a family discount, so that the children can sit at the table for free.
This seems like a fairer system that is perfectly feasible provided the necessary technology is installed.
First of all: the concerned consumer did not have to pay the “fine”, waived! But still had the dire need to publish this... We dismiss this as "flower pot customers, freeloaders, etc." It's just "not done" to occupy the terrace or tefels for hours on end! It's high time something happened about this. Indeed, one can say: "Do you want to order something else or do you want the bill and leave?" But there is the language problem. In my opinion, Bon Cafe acted rightly.
I know the example of 12 Koreans occupying a terrace and ordering 3 (!) orange juice! As a catering entrepreneur I would have thrown them out a long time ago. That also happens in the Netherlands: if you don't order you have to leave the terrace, very normal! So I don't understand why this is becoming such a big topic.
No one with any decency would ever do this. And those without decency you must quickly work outside!
So the coffee was 60 Baht per cup I read. Apparently the catering entrepreneur thought that 2240:60= 37 cups of coffee should have been drunk. So 9 cups of coffee per person in 2 hours.
Of course 1 consumption in 2 hours is too little, but this is of course a pure scam.
Yes it has its pros and cons.
it is definitely not welcoming and the other one is not acting like a guest.
It is mainly a matter of responding well to crowds/situations.
In Amsterdam I was not allowed to use the window in a shop because I was alone.
The place was empty and then I say “Goodbye” and leave.
In Hong Kong I wanted to ask someone if I could join (person alone and 6 seats)
I was taken away by staff, I was not allowed to get a table of 6 alone?
In Tokyo we had a mini floor with 4 armchairs with the children.
There it was said it costs a paid amount. Done immediately of course it's funny your own territory haha.
In New York the 4 of us and only wanted a drink, we had to go to the bar, were not allowed to sit at a table.
In the end we had spent more on drinks and snacks at the bar than many guests at one table>
The boss then became friendly??
In Portugal people just join a table then everything is used to the full and no one is angry
if one joins. (People do ask if the place is free) In my opinion the best way.
Ergo there are many possibilities as long as it is clear.
Could be an option you rent 1 chair for 1 hour and pay 5 euros and if you order something, for example 1 drink, the rent is deducted per consumption haha and after 1 hour another 5 euros.
Point is I have money so I don't really care, but it would be annoying if people were sent away.
A good manager should be able to handle this!'
grsj
once in ireland. the raining heart was enjoying a beer in the pub with a fireplace, 2 Dutchmen come in soaking wet from the rain, steal 1 coffee and sit by the fireplace. throw some wood on the fire unsolicited and sit there for 3 hours on 1 coffee. The bartender was annoyed. the gentlemen were dry and left. At the door they received a nice gift from the bartender with a bucket of water over them I fell off my chair laughing. Oh yes I think it's good that if you occupy wood you have to pay for it.
Pay for the time, not for a cup of coffee.
http://www.bright.nl/caf%C3%A9-waar-je-niet-voor-de-koffie-maar-voor-de-tijd-betaalt
I can perfectly agree with that.
When I first read it I thought wtf and typical Thailand…
But actually I agree.
When I recently flew to Bangkok, I wanted to have a cup of coffee at Schiphol, but it was extremely busy at the Starbucks at the traverse to the G pier. This scared me so much that I walked towards the F pier and had a cup of coffee there. When I walked past that Starbucks later and took a closer look, I saw that few people actually consumed something hot or ate a cake. Most of them hung in the seats or stared tensely into smartphones.
So yes, it takes business and then I can imagine Bon Cafe.
The fact that you can't keep a table occupied forever with an order of four cups of coffee should be self-evident for any sane person. Assuming that this was certainly not the only guest who has annoyed this owner of the catering industry with such behavior, I can well understand that he took a drastic measure this time, which he has taken back. It's bad enough that nowadays you have to write signs with behavior and decency rules that should be normal for everyone. Given that the guest has also published this despite his strange behavior, I assume that he has received more nutrition, as an education, because he still thinks he is in the right.
The operator probably wanted to give a clear signal that such a thing is not possible. Keeping a table occupied for hours and not giving him a bath. I also see them here in Thung Wualen: the farang couples: both with a tablet or portable, surfing the internet via the free WiFi all afternoons or evenings. One drink, the cheapest: a small bottle of water, from which the owner earns practically nothing. I've even seen them get angry because the free WiFi failed... An expensive tablet can be removed, but not your own internet access. I also call this “profiteers”, no more or no less. Same in hotels: they want the cheapest room but free WiFi MUST be there. It's better to lose such a customer than to find it... but yes, some people have no sense of shame and think everything is normal, as long as they can benefit, that someone else also tries to earn his living (pot of rice) doesn't touch their cold clothes. Just point the door.
In the food courts, such as Tesco Lotus, there is also free WiFi and you can sit as long as you want without ordering anything. So why go to those scammers with crazy prices of Baht 60 cup of coffee? Can you get a meal with drinks in such a food court.
Solution to this problem? Just turn off the WiFi in your business every now and then and see who leaves. Because this is almost the biggest cause of the problem. It sickens me when you sit somewhere these days and the entire herd is huddled in some kind of screen. People don't even look at each other anymore, where is your mind!
Pretty normal that they charge extra money. Of course you can't stay in the air conditioning + probably free WiFi for 2 hours. I wouldn't dare to stay that long on 1 consumption. Look what they had charged extra was about the great, but still. I know that years ago in Holland it was already true that you had to order a drink at least every hour. I know because I had a catering business myself.
Let people first tackle the people who don't order anything at all and sit at the bar and on the terrace I see this every day, I sometimes sit for two hours for two cups of coffee is too long.
But the staff can also ask in English in a friendly way if you want something to drink, but that's the problem, they don't speak a word of English.
Or take the Philippines to or from Cambodia, then that will also be solved.
It is not written anywhere that they were foreigners, just someone with three friends, so they could also have been Thais and you are in Thailand after all, so why don't you speak Thai as a foreigner?? Why does the staff always have to speak English??
Make me angry on occasions like that, especially when hardly anyone is present.
pay for that and that. Don't go there anymore. People are crazy who think that's normal.
In the past, this also happened in the catering establishments of provincial towns or larger villages.
What to sit in the bar, without consuming.
I remember the innkeeper several times, who then shouted: 'this is not café De Wachtzaal, then you go and sit in the station or at the bus stop. People come here to eat and drink, so get out!
The man was right, most of them thought!
I can still remember that I was once in a McDonalds on the Damrak. There you were only allowed to sit at a table if you had ordered for at least 5 guilders. So I basically had to stand with my French fries and coke and umbrella and shopping bag. Well, in such a case I settle down nicely and a handsome boy who gets me away.
In some catering establishments you pay a cutlery fee.
If you only sit at a table for four… then you pay a fee for the three unoccupied seats.