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Home » Organizations » Reader question: Dowry yes or no?
Reader question: Dowry yes or no?
Dear editor,
I am one of the many Dutch living in Bangkok. And I want to ask your advice regarding the dowry. That in Thailand is still customary before marrying a Thai woman.
What can you tell me about the dowry? I personally have mixed feelings about this and think that this is not a good starting point for a marriage between a man and a woman. In my personal opinion, this Thai custom degrades the woman to a utensil. And this cannot be the intention.
What is your view/advice on this?
With kind regards,
Bernard
There is a lot of information on Thailandblog about the dowry:
https://www.thailandblog.nl/cultuur/sinsod-belasting-aanstaanden/
https://www.thailandblog.nl/isaan/trouwen-sinsod-betalen/
https://www.thailandblog.nl/cultuur/sinsot/
The reactions are also significant. Some say it's outdated, others think it's acceptable. There is also always a lot of discussion about the height of Sinsod.
Is that so John, if you pay the sinsod, then you basically don't send anything monthly to Thailand anymore?? I have no idea, so I'll ask you.
Somehow, for the sake of convenience, it is assumed in the above that the (future) parents-in-law are poor. Do not forget that the sinsot also has another function, namely that the groom, by paying a large sinsot, shows that he is a good choice of the daughter because he will be able to take care of her.
Bearing in mind that in Bangkok almost 70% of all students at the top 3 universities are women, this idea will soon be outdated.
Thai women are in a huge catch-up race in Bangkok, which many young Thai men are only moderately pleased with. Soon many will no longer be able to afford the sinsot for an attractive, smart high earner
@John - that either/or and having a choice all sounds nice and nice in theory, but how does that work in practice? If mom and dad chase through the sinsod with alcohol and gambling in 2 years, or mom or dad become seriously ill and the costs get out of hand, then wife says 'too bad, bad luck/bad luck' or does the support come? down to the Thai daughter and hubby farang again? We both know the answer of course.
I think what you write in response to Marco below is better advice, quote (with regard to paying the bills): 'You have to be able to handle this as a Westerner. If you can't, then better not marry a Thai. Because then it will continue to cause tension.'
That's how it is.
The parents of a Thai relative by marriage have chased the sinsod through a few months with parties.
Theory and practice are therefore far apart.
The sinsod is often many times higher than the real amount. After the wedding you get the money back, served only to impress those present. By the way, make this clear if you want to do it that way.
I think you should adapt to the culture of the country you are staying in. So getting married in Thailand means paying sinsod. Or do you want to spend the rest of your life with a disappointed family? Do not forget that these people have to live on it and possibly also have to pay for the sinsod of their son who is getting married.
I was recently at a wedding of a Thai helicopter pilot from the Bkk police and a doctor. The pilot's family contributed heavily and even had to sell land for it. The wedding was simple, a 10-course Chinese menu, but that was celebrated in the house of the bridal couple. Large party tents on the street and the catering provided the food / drinks. I expected more from it but think it's a great solution to celebrate a cheap wedding. I could walk there so that was nice.
I think you should pay sinsod anyway. You ultimately have to know the amount yourself. It can go from 1000 euros to 100.000, up to you sir! You probably also have to pay for the wedding party, but you will receive many envelopes with money back, usually about covering the costs. Oh yes, the monks who appear at 6 o'clock in the morning also want an envelope per man.
“I think you have to adapt to the culture of the country where you are staying. So getting married in Thailand means paying sinsod. ”
That's your opinion, even if you don't say it explicitly, and that's allowed.
But if even Thais write, that this is not their culture everywhere anymore, I think this will be closer to the truth.
@ Hansy and everyone…..I just read your comment: Thailand getting married is paying sinsod. And if one gets married in, for example, the Netherlands, Belgium or the US?
It is also customary in a Muslim family, but you will never see that again
Use or abuse?
The charity that the parents have extra pocket money for later is a noble goal, but unfortunately it has become more abuse, especially if a farang has come into play. Where normally just over 50k bath is handed over, for the same girl a farang is easily asked 10 times. There are also parents who dare to ask for 500k for an older divorced daughter with a child.
I think that paying the sinsot should not go beyond local custom and that the parents return it properly after the wedding. It is also important that the son-in-law is committed to the well-being of his parents-in-law for the rest of his life, as this benefits them much more than simply buying things off.
The next book contains a chapter on dowry. Warmly recommended.
– Chris Pirazzi and Vitida Vasant. Thai Fever.
Clear bilingual (Thai, English) explanation for intercultural couples about their cultural differences, misunderstandings and communication problems. The authors, a Thai and an American, shed light on both perspectives.
It is not normal for the family to ask sinsod for the older daughter who has already been married and has children ... for Thai standards she is off the marriage market and doomed to remain alone. Few or no Thai men are interested anymore. Only if they are financially If things are going well, there will be interest from the Thai side.
It is not just a custom in Thailand. The payment of a dowry also occurs in other countries. And this is not just about the sinsod, you also give your bride an amount of gold (bath)
Yes, this way we can keep giving. Money, gold... In my eyes they are laughing their asses off.
And not everyone should feel addressed, because there will certainly be dozens of examples where things are different. I come to Thailand about 6 months a year, for many many years. I'm more of a loose wrist and butterfly. But always come to the same conclusion… It's all about money (with exceptions). That's why I stay nice and alone, I like it perfectly in Paradise. But who knows….Maybe I will also meet the right one sometime???
If you marry a virgin, I can imagine something.
Have it checked by the doctor first. Thai ladies in general are very
early in terms of their first sexual contact. If you are saddled with 1 or more
children from a previous relationship then paying a sinsod (for a Thai)
a disgrace. Especially towards his own family. But unfortunately there are many
figures like Arthur (see previous article). Then a serious discussion about this.
If you want to get yourself undressed, good luck to all those Arthurs.
You just have to think I'm happy with it, just wait and see for how long.
Cor.
“If you marry a virgin, I can imagine something.
Do check with the doctor first.”
What superstition do you believe in thinking this is possible?
@ link to Zulus is not allowed, has nothing to do with Thailand. And therefore removed.
9 monks 8×100 and the abbot 500 makes 1400 bath
anthony
Hansy
take your loved one to the doctor first where is the love then?
800 plus 500 is 1400?
Please read carefully before responding.
The first paragraph is in quotation marks, meaning that I am quoting Cor van Kampen.
The chance that a farang man marries a Thai virgin seems to me to be absolutely negligible.
That is of course not true. Decent Thai people return the sin sod (a custom for the face of the family) right away. It is not for lazy life of parents and other relatives. But there are bad families who rub their hands at the sight of a Farnag potential son-in-law. Never, never, never start, not even monthly donations that exceed the salary of father-in-law. I just put this on the table 30 years ago, I'll never ask anything from you but don't mess with us. That has always gone well, although there have been a few home runs on my wallet that I have turned down. Also, moving in with us, for free, is not an option. Advice put a dot on the I in advance and never start. Also don't lend to Thai by the way. Again decent families don't do this. If they do exert pressure, well then you are still waiting
Nice all those different thoughts and opinions. And of course you have to adapt to the Thai culture, but to be ripped off that is verse 2. Have friends who pay nothing at all and have a great relationship with in-laws. Also have friends there every day asked for money ( begged ). Often it is a game to try how far they can go with that farang. Was last year November 19 with my girlfriend at her sister's wedding, married a Thai man. town 250 km below Hua Hin. Have seen other traditions there than these stories. I was also the only farang there. I was pampered there without a penny. So yes, everyone will have some truth. Is it the case that the sinsod is seen differently in every Thai province or the same throughout Thailand? This is a great topic, great discussions because it's all about money, no matter how we look at it.
It is customary that you have to pay a dowry otherwise the party will not take place. Over the years I have sung at many weddings and attended shows and the necessary puppet shows. Recently a Norwegian threw a million baht on the table, only to get half of it back. However, he was so drunk that her brothers ran off with all the money. The game was played so cleverly that he still had to pay half a million otherwise she had to come back home, and the guy fell for that too. A bunch of hustlers, drunks and gamblers. I'm going to give it a wide berth and marriage should be banned anyway, because that is often your death sentence, or your ex, or handing over your assets, and things almost always go wrong sooner or later. Stay free or be friends with each other, and enjoy life and don't let yourself be financially trapped in a country like Thailand, because once you give there is no end. Had an ex who had already been married 4 times, I heard too late, and then she wanted to surprise me when I arrived in Korat. The story was that Mommy wanted to see me so badly. She meant my ATM of course and already saw it, a large house with a supermarket, and I immediately turned around when half the village had left and I saw black labels everywhere on the tables. I hadn't been seated for even a minute when I got the drinks bill for 59.000 baht. Quickly take money and never see it again.
You can read much more about it on some English forums/blogs.
In a nutshell I understand that:
– Sinsod used to be meant in the countryside to compensate for the loss of a worker. After all, daughter goes with her new husband, so that is 1 strength less to help with harvesting. So one will have to hire an extra person, for example when it is harvest time.
– The children have to take care of the parents when they are elderly, this means that you have to stop a little every month because there is hardly any pension/benefit. Old civil servants do get some, but it's not much. Helping the parents financially is also normal, but the amounts must remain normal. Alternatively, you can of course buy this off and give a bag of money in one go, but there is a good chance that this money will soon be used up…
– It is also a show, a bit of showing off what a good catch the family/daughter has made. “Look, we're doing well.” The Thais like some ostentation, even if it is an appearance: expensive BMW or Benz (turns out to be borrowed money, etc.), a large amount of sinsod, but everything is returned neatly afterwards, etc.
So if money is already given to the parents (which is not necessary!), then the amount depends on the “value” of the woman. Age, education, appearance, etc. The better, the higher the market value. Whether she is still a virgin or whether she already has a lot of experience (กระดังงาลนไฟ). Does she already have children, an ex (who has already paid since then). A “second hand” is no longer worth anything (sounds a bit harsh).
So if you hook a young star, there is a chance that the family will want to see a lot of money. You then have to negotiate what is reasonable. Of course, it is up to you what amount you agree to, or whether you, for example, choose to claim everything back after the show. If your girlfriend already had a partner and they ask for a (high) amount, there is a good chance that they are just after your money.
rob
50 or 60 years ago we also had to give money to the parents, that is not so strange
anthony