"I'll just stay a free boy in Thailand"
My experience with Thailand extends over a period of about sixteen years. Of course I know many stories about foreigners who have lost all their (savings) money in Thailand due to serious relationship problems. I also often enough hear the stories about married foreigners who misbehave in bars and restaurants.
Thai and western culture
My idea, which has developed over the years, is that Western and Thai culture are difficult to reconcile. Maybe I use the word culture too lightly, because I don't know if it really is a difference in culture, but I am sure that I see a lot of things happening in Thailand that I would think impossible in my own country. Anyway, I've never experienced it. I also add that there will probably be good relations, where the Thai and foreign partner treat each other on an equal basis without one of them grabbing everything.
Failed relationships
I've had my share, if not more than my share, of failed relationships. Maybe not a failure like it would have happened in my own country, because I've learned that if a relationship doesn't work, you have to end it. I have always continued to use my brain with that failure, I have not lost a lot of money because of it. However, the emotional price was high, although I was not aware of it at first. Eventually I realized that if I had acted on my own feelings since my first visit to Thailand, it would have saved me a lot of trouble.
Feelings
What were those feelings then? Well, I had already heard stories about western men getting dumped by a Thai lady on their first visit. After his holiday he goes home, sells all his possessions and returns with a good amount of money to marry that sweet Thai sweetheart. In no time, however, he has lost all his money and the relationship also ends afterwards. Those stories should have made me more alert and wary to choose a partner for a relationship more carefully, but did it? Of course, I wasn't stupid, because my Thai lady was "different", right? Yes, I knew the stories, had learned little from them, but during a second serious relationship the scales fell from my eyes.
My girlfriend
That friend lived with her mother in Bangkok, she was 21 years old at the time, still studying and she was really a very sweet and handsome Thai. Her father and mother had divorced when my friend was very young, but there was still a kind of friendship between them, so that they visited each other on birthdays, for example. Her father, who lived with a friend who worked for the police, was actually a "loser" who drank too much and also often borrowed money from her mother who never got it back. Her mother was a hard-working woman who had worked at the same clothing store for over 30 years. One evening my girlfriend told me something that touched me very deeply and unpleasantly.
German man
She then told me that her father's girlfriend was married to a German man who came to Thailand two or three times a year. The German was told that the man in her home was her brother with whom she lived. When the German husband was in Thailand to visit his wife, my girlfriend's father moved into a guest room, where he could hear all the sounds of two loving people in the matrimonial bed. The presence of another man was not a problem for the German, in fact, they were, as it were, friends who, among other things, went on fishing trips together.
morale
That in itself was shocking to me, but it got even worse when I discussed this matter with my friend and her mother. I asked them both if the attitude of their father and ex-husband was acceptable, I didn't ask if they were okay with it but acceptable. I told them that I was very surprised that they would have anything to do with that man and his deceitful attitude. Maybe my girlfriend could apologize, after all it was her father. But the mother, a sensible and hard-working woman who had been abused by that man so many times, I really didn't understand. So I asked why they were still dealing with this parasite and got the simple answer: up to him!
Social traffic
Perhaps this kind of thing happens in the western world, but I have never experienced it. In the social circles in which I live, such a thing does not happen and if it did, the people involved would certainly be viewed with disapproval.
But now I was dealing with a Thai relationship who, by accepting her father's attitude, seemed to think that a way of life like her father's was normal. I should have known that the Thais think differently, but I didn't see it. I always thought it was very possible that a Western man could have a perfect relationship with a Thai woman. But over the years I've seen so much misery from failed relationships that I've finally learned my lesson. A lesson I should have known since my first visit to Thailand.
Living as a free boy in Thailand
I've decided for myself that the only way to have a good life in Thailand is to stay a free boy and play the Thai game. Thailand is great to use as a base for traveling to other Asian countries and I will definitely be traveling a lot.
As for women… let them think they have a big fish on the hook with me. I'm going to have fun with them, but no relationship. I already have a house so I don't have to build another one for someone else. If there's someone who wants to play with me for a week or so in the hopes that I'll pay for that house, I'll play along and then suddenly I'll disappear from the scene without saying goodbye.
Source: KhaoYai on Thaivisa
Of course there is an anthropologist who can answer the question why the mother allows her ex's behavior, and the same anthropologist will also be able to explain why 'we' in the West have trouble with his behavior.
The hypocrisy of the above story is mainly in the last paragraph. The writer of the above piece shows that he himself has little moral sense. Such a pity.
Hypocritical? When in Rome, do as the Romans do!
You're absolutely right again, Gringo. Thailand has the same proverb:
เข้า เมือง ตา หลิ่ว ให้ หลิ่ว ตา ตาม (khâw meuang taa lìw hâi taa lìw taam ).
'If you come to a country where people wink, wink too.
No problem behaving like crazy in traffic, throwing garbage everywhere and humiliating women. Just leave your ethical views in Europe.
I don't need to be right, Tino
I didn't write about my views, I just translated a story,
So turn against the writer if you like and not against me, thanks in advance!
The phonetic translation does not match the Thai script.
What's good now?
It's true. But it is a stubborn phonetic representation. Perhaps khaw (to enter) would be better written as khao gad.
Tino, in Thai you wrote 'lìw taa' but phonetically you write 'taa lìw' , so you have reversed something, I Google the spell and I get:
More information
khâw meuang taa lìw thông lìw taa taam
Enter city(state) eye-squint must follow squint-with-eye (it).
If you come to a country where people wink (squint your eyes, close one eye), wink too.
Dear Rob,
First it says 'taa lìw', which is a noun '(the country of) the wink', then it says 'lìw taa' and that is a verb 'give a wink, blink your eyes'. Between your and my sentence there is another difference with the verb 'hâi' and the verb 'tông', which, however, have the same meaning in this case: 'must, imitate, obey'.
So the translation can also be:
'If you enter the land of winks, wink back'.
Sorry, Marcel and Rob, you are right. I wrote taa liw twice….
What nonsense to discuss here over and over again about phonetic Thai!!! “THE phonetic Thai does not exist. There are dozens of phonetic translations from a particular language and hundreds of phonetic approximations from Thai to other languages in the world. One is often better than the other, but it is just a tool with many interpretations and different ways of thinking. Discussion can be fun, but pointing it out bluntly leads to nothing constructive. That is different with the many errors that pop up here too often in Dutch.
Everyone is free to choose whether or not to have a 'permanent' relationship, but I find it extremely unfair to say the least to play a game or to suggest that you are interested in a future together and then, even without saying goodbye, squeezing in between. By the way, I wonder what the truth of this story is, because the main character writes that he already owns a house and would like to 'play' for a week or so. But where do things take place, certainly not in his own house because then it will be difficult to leave with the northern sun. And furthermore, the idea that a Thai ex of the girlfriend's mother and father would accept that a German would do 'it' with his girlfriend in his presence is very far-fetched. In any case, certainly not commonplace, not even in Thailand, and why would the ex tell his ex and daughter at all? Actually, I don't understand what Gringo intends by taking over this story from Thaivisa. The Thais are lumped together and portrayed as unreliable and calculated. This will certainly apply to some, but it will also apply to some Europeans and other population groups. Even less do I understand Gringo's reaction 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do!'. This spell is intended to help you adapt to customs in a different environment, but of course it does not imply that you have to adopt an undesirable mentality. Like Rob V. I think it's a typical sour story from Thaivisa. If you don't want to settle down, there are certainly plenty of opportunities in Thailand to 'get your money' without showing hypocritical behavior under the guise that you are supposedly adapting and criticizing the Thai community in general.
Very good and recognizable story GRINGO and also hard reality
555 *sigh* another typical sour piece from the farang-dino forum ThaiVisa.* This -probably- young man comes across to me as an antisocial loser who has little or no respect for others and who speaks well for himself to 'they do it too'. Nonsense, you usually get what you deserve. If you show respect and try to empathize with someone else, you will often get it back. The Thai are no different. Relationships depend on good communication, without which you can shake it.
* The Dutch are sometimes dismissed as whiners, but I meet many professional pessimists there. I have the impression that there are still a lot of disappointed, unintegrated people hanging around who, after x years of (semi) residence, still don't speak the language and huddle together in white-nose complaining clubs. Only in the visa questions forum can I keep it up there. Smile and the world will smile back! 🙂
"Up to him" does not mean that they approve of this behavior, let alone that they would do it themselves. It means they don't want to interfere in another's moral behavior.
Should we also do more?
Whether what is said in the last paragraph is morally acceptable or not is beyond my judgment. Furthermore, the story gives a good insight into the Thai way of life. There are always exceptions, but in general Thais behave in accordance with what is customary/acceptable in Thai culture. If you think yours is different, you're basically saying "mine isn't Thai." You also often see that Westerners immediately want to change their behavior to a Western woman. Then take a Western woman, I would say. Lying and cheating is much worse with us, with our Calvinist culture, than in Thailand. What doesn't know what doesn't hurt and what you don't see isn't there.
In a relationship it is useful if you eventually get to know and understand each other a bit. The German in the story got what he wanted when he got there. The question is what to expect if you are absent half the time, or more.
If the writer is satisfied with having a "girlfriend" now and then, and treats her with some respect and doesn't make promises he doesn't keep, then I think he's making a wise choice.
I'm a bit older and have a very lovely girlfriend who I see very often and who I get along with very well, but I don't impose obligations on her and encourage her to choose her own path. If that road is with me, like it has been so far, then that's fine. If it is better for her to walk it with another, so much the better for her. I take good care of her and also a little bit of the family and look at what is important to her. She gives me what is important to me.
As a Westerner, you have to immerse yourself in Thai culture and learn the language to get a little grip on an existence in Thailand. If you travel to Siam as an ignorant Westerner, naive and full of wrong expectations, you are asking to butt your head. Don't blame the Thais for being Thai, but blame yourself for having the wrong expectations. You can't change the Thais, but you can change yourself and if you don't want the latter, just stay home is my advice.
In any relationship, and in any conception, it is essential to see each other only as human beings with their own opinions and wishes. It goes wrong if you classify the other into a 'culture', Eastern or Western, and take that into account in your dealings with that other person. Look exclusively at the individual and not at the supposed underlying 'culture'. Then you always come home from a rude awakening.
You can describe a 'culture' in general terms, but you should never apply it to an individual. The differences between individuals within the same 'culture' are far too great for that. There are Thais who do not meet the 'Thai standards' in any way.
People do not function individually, by themselves. They function in a context: a social context, an economic context, a psychological context, a religious context, a political context. Whether you like it or not, all these contexts shape you, and can also change you. A Dutchman who has lived in his native country all his life and emigrates to Thailand at the age of 65 is much more Dutch and has much more difficulty adapting to Thai values and standards than the Dutchman has never been since he was 25. has lived in the Netherlands but in 5 different countries, has been married to two women from another country, has worked in these 5 countries and has been on the internet for 30 years.
Nobody declares the culture applicable to a person, but all persons TOGETHER make a certain culture. As people come into contact with more other people, their views change, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. That is why we speak of globalisation, dysneyfication and also of radicalisation.
Of course there are Thais who do not meet Thai standards in any way. But there are many, much fewer that meet Dutch standards. And there are few Dutch people who meet Thai standards, especially if you have never been here. To deny that is to bury your head in the sand for the differences and makes it very difficult to work together to solve problems.
At first I thought I was reading an article by someone who thinks about relationships and takes them seriously. There aren't too many of those in my experience, but that aside. A realistic view of this problem can do no harm and more should do so. However, the true nature only emerged late and says enough about the person in question. This may also be the reason why his many relationships have ended. It's not for everyone, I know. Not to hope that he meets a serious lady because she apparently comes home from a rude awakening. We also have to do it in society with this man. I would say there is room for more, but it is strange that he openly admits it. Perhaps the soup is not eaten as hot as it is served after all.
“East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet”.
An always misunderstood quote. East and West is only meant geographically, not on a human level. When people meet, there is no East or West
It's here, the full quote:
Oh, East is East and West is West and they never meet
Until Heaven and Earth stand in judgment before God's Face;
But there is no East nor West, no Frontier nor Race or Lineage,
When two mighty men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!
https://www.thailandblog.nl/achtergrond/oost-oost-en-west-west-en-nooit-komen-zij-tot-elkaar/
Yes, indeed Kipling (now considered racist) may have meant it differently (in the 19th century), but that does not alter the fact that the opening sentence has taken hold and has taken on a life of its own.
It aptly sketches both worlds and the large – virtually unbridgeable differences.
Facing and accepting that is bad.
Our country was a power in the Indies for centuries and all that remained was “Just a few scratches on a rock”.
We will see what the century of China brings us.
There are differences between those two worlds, but more similarities. These differences, sometimes difficult, sometimes easy, can almost always be bridged. Like between two people.
Keep your self-worth as you had it before. You have apparently slipped by experiencing and hearing about broken relationships. Don't lower yourself.
Thai make little noise and say few words about misbehavior of others. They accept that situations arise that they can do little to remedy.
Find a (Thai) partner. Talk to Her about your expectations, listen to Her expectations. Make it clear to her that you don't want to or can't be her family's financial backer. Clarify the financial picture. Make sure she chooses you for the sake of love and not money.
A relationship with a much younger partner is possible, but I would advise against it. Be sincere and talk about EVERYTHING. The search may be long, but don't give up. There are certainly Thai sincere partners to be found. Attractive ladies are often the dangerous ones.
The casual and short-lived relationships you have now may be fun, but sooner or later you will be looking for a life partner. I wish you luck.
The image that is often painted of Thai people, also in the media, is not in line with my own experiences. After two years in Thailand, my preliminary conclusion is that people everywhere show the same behavior. Some are antisocial, fortunately the majority are not. In my immediate environment I see that the economy is growing, many people are working, a lot is being built, a lot of cars and motorcycles are being sold. There is a lot more studying going on, during rush hour it is black with the various school uniforms. Most of the people I've gotten to know over the past 2 years are worth it. The respect for the elderly is great. What strikes me is often the lesser behavior of Western, mostly European people. And it is often they who condemn the Thai. Maybe put your hand in your bosom.
As a human being you have feelings and they are the same everywhere and you want to see that in others. So respect. This has nothing to do with culture. No one wants to be cheated in any culture. But yes, when the need is greatest, a person can make crazy jumps and when it comes to money anyway.
You are better off as a free boy, because relationships with too big an age difference cannot easily be maintained.
In addition, the thought is certainly general that a Thai woman may benefit from the "rich" Farang.
Combine that with each other and it is not surprising that so many walk away penniless.
You may wonder who benefits and who goes penniless in a relationship between an old, wealthy foreigner and a young, poor Thai woman, unless you judge all relationships solely on their monetary value.
Take off your rose-colored glasses for once Tino Kuis..I completely agree with Gringo.Story translated or not.
You can also look for someone who is the same age as you or a little younger, then you won't have that problem. But most men are horny for way too young women and those women don't have the life experience that you already have. So if you say: You are better off as a free boy, because the age difference is too big, then you have to start thinking about yourself. Why do you fall for way too young women who don't match your age?
We all agree on how we will proceed, but whether it will turn out that way is another matter! By the time this story is published, he may already be head over heels in love with just the best, the prettiest, the sweetest, the most loyal, and the needless only Thai beauty!
Completely agree with you.
Adapting a bit and integrating into the local culture, which I agree with, is quite different from behaving submissively.
Your example makes that clear.
Most westerners think it SHOULD be like this, that you SHOULD buy your girlfriend a house and you SHOULD take care of them.
Both parties have to adapt, otherwise it will never work out and your relationship is doomed to fail.
So (according to the logic of the writer of the story) when your purse with money is stolen on the street, you also steal someone else's purse with money 🙁
I too, a retired man from the Netherlands who hibernates in Hua Hin every year, have given up hope after various disappointments with all over 50s, highly and less educated people and decided to spend my time in Thailand as a free man from now on. That is very difficult because with every new meeting, masseuses, hairdressers, party life, I have to tell again and again that a long-term relationship is not possible and also why, unfortunately very often in vain because a normal friendship from which there is no advantage for them is rarely possible.
I sailed tramp and scheduled services from the age of 16 to 60. For different countries and under different flags. 13 nationalities on a ship of about 100 meters. On another ship 3 men in a cabin, me a Japanese and a Cabo Verde. Sailed and lived together with most of the nationalities in the world. You lived, worked and communicated with each other. My point is that there is no East and West that do not understand each other. Every man or woman thinks and does broadly the same thing only in another language besides the English language as a necessity for the proper functioning on board. Respect each other and then there will be no problems.
There's nothing wrong with playing the game, but don't promise heaven and earth.
So must be heaven on earth. 🙂
It doesn't matter where a woman comes from.
Am now 61 years old and my life experience is as above.
My personal vision is to go for a close relationship, but have never met a woman with the same idea. It's almost utopian.
Have now seen, heard, experienced enough to set this as utopia.
Try as I might, nada, nonsense. No matter how well you think you're doing.
Communication? Wrong, if you do that it will be used against you at some point and/or your partner knows how you think and sails around it, which you will find out at some point.
Also with the Thai, read that Thai think partner is abroad and will not come for the time being, so get sex with someone else. But she does love you.(?) However, is that only Thai? Nope, happens everywhere.
It is even stimulated in the Netherlands, then you see an advertisement on TV of, for example, Second love. in other words it's normal, cheat, that's exciting.
Well , and the times they are changing .
Married to Thai for more than 40 years and everything is fine, but speak Thai fluently and understand their whole mentality that can not be compared to ours. Must play their game and make the best of it for yourself. but in the 1st 10 years you need schooling. As a foreigner, you may even take a mia noi into your own home with your Thai wife. They think that's quite normal as long as they don't lack anything to take care of your children and .Men have more rights than women .Is so. My wife's family even throws a party for me and my wife has to listen. She cooks super well like no other and cleans everything that is possible down to the last detail, but does not come from a bar. Have to watch their thai movies on you tube which they all do themselves and there you will learn all about thai life how and what and you will understand the huge difference of thinking between thai and europeans and never no more problems. Then live in heaven on earth. Never paid a dowry and family didn't even want to. Work together and share everything together but each manage their own money for later to the children. Do any properties have money in the bank in Belgium and Thailand and I am not short of anything but I am not crazy to spend money in gogo bars and booze ..
Your text:
“As a foreigner, you can even take a mia noi into your own home with your Thai wife. They think that's quite normal as long as they don't lack anything to take care of your children and .Men have more rights than women .Is so. My wife's family even throws a party for me and my wife has to listen”
Suppose life was turned around and women were allowed everything, that she was allowed to come home with a lover is normal as long as you have nothing short. Women had more rights than men. Your family takes sides with your wife and that you should just listen.
Will you be happy with your life then?
Do you have daughters who should let themselves be used as a rug?
In our village I know a similar case with a German, he builds a nice house to spend the holidays there with his girlfriend, she, of course a Thai, regularly travels to BRD and then her brother looks after the house, however, brother is her husband, he stays there as long as the German is not in Thailand, otherwise he lives across the street in a simple hut. However, that German falls ill and, given his age, his Thai girlfriend insists that he should continue to live in Germany and that he does not have to worry about the house, since her "brother" will take care of it and she will occasionally will come to Germany. However, her "brother" is a truck driver and she drives with him every day, probably she doesn't trust him. In short, another sad story, which also shames the Thai community in the village.
Fortunately, I have completely different experiences with my Thai wife, with whom I have been happily living and married for 14 years.
You have narcissistic people everywhere in the Netherlands, Europe and Thailand. In that respect, the same could happen in Europe.
Playing those games eventually gets boring. I have also continued to travel with that notion for years. In the end, those blanks hardly bring any satisfaction and a person still longs for steadfastness. Another fact is that one does not remain a young man. A lot has changed over the years.
Being in a relationship isn't always negative. Many people are quite happy in their East West relationship. Not all Thais are bad people just like all Westerners are good people.
And anyway, in most cases with a Thai woman you have more than enough freedom to be on your own now and then if you want to.
My idea is that you can do what you want with a Thai as long as it does not lead to loss of face, but you have to be more careful with what you say. In the west that is somewhat the opposite, I thought there you can say what you want but you can hardly do anything.
Luc happens to be your wife again not from a bar. She probably worked in a body massage parlor with the aftermath as the main goal. I also married a Thai for 40 years to someone who did work in a bar. Nothing wrong with that anyway. Brought her to Belgium 25 years ago and we have been living in Thailand for 15 years now. I don't speak Thai but I do speak Khmer as she is from Surin and the whole village speaks Khmer. Taking a mia noi is not an option for me, but in the bars I can do what I want. By the way, not from a bar. When I hear that I always have to laugh. Is a girl who works in a bar less than another maybe.
Married to a Thai for 40 years and apparently still assuming that a Thai partner is either from a bar or a massage parlor…