Hotel talking to American guest about negative review
(Michael Vi / Shutterstock.com)
A Koh Chang hotel and an American who is being sued for defamation over a negative review he posted on Tripadvisor have agreed to meet to try and resolve the dispute.
Pholkrit Ratanawong, general manager of Sea View Koh Chang, told the Bangkok Post that the meeting is scheduled for October 8. The American, Wesley Barnes, confirmed the appointment yesterday, telling Reuters news agency he hoped it would put an end to the nasty episode.
According to foreign media reports, Mr Barnes was arrested by immigration police and detained on the island for defamation before being released on bail. If convicted, he could face two years in prison and a fine of up to 200.000 baht.
Mr Pholkrit wants the American to remove his negative reviews. According to Pholkrit, his hotel is being damaged by the reviews he says are not fair: “We want the disputed party to stop its accusations. The reviews are not about our service but about other things”. Mr Barnes reportedly accused the hotel of slavery and made a racist remark about an employee of the hotel restaurant, who is Czech.
Following the controversial review, the hotel was criticized for "how badly the hotel staff were treated" and several bookings were cancelled, according to Pholkrit. He also said hotel employees were threatened after the media attention. In addition, other hotels with a similar name were also hit by the criticism.
Mr Barnes checked into the hotel on June 27 and spent the night there. According to the hotel director, a dispute arose when Mr Barnes refused to pay a corkage fee of 500 baht for a bottle of gin he took to the hotel's restaurant.
He then posted four negative reviews on TripAdvisor as of June 29, Mr. Pholkrit said.
Source: Bangkok Post
It used to be common in Thailand for people to bring their own drinks to a restaurant.
But times change.
And to be honest, if I owned a restaurant I would also expect the guests to order their food and drinks from me, and not just use my tables, chairs and cutlery.
If they then have liquor with them, which I as a restaurant cannot provide, it does not seem unreasonable to me that they pay compensation for not purchasing my products, because if they bring their own gin, they order my liquor not.
You are ignoring the essence of the matter.
You write a negative review on the internet and you risk serious imprisonment and a heavy fine.
That's what it's about. This is unusual and unheard of.
I hope it never happens to you.
Goodbye,
There are two stories. (in brief)
1 The American did not want to pay compensation for bringing his own alcohol.
2 The American has accused the hotel of slavery on the Internet.
I think number 1 is quite likely, as that hardly seems worth making up to me, but even if it is not true, number 2 alone is enough to get the American into trouble.
Number 2 is an accusation of a serious crime, which is slavery.
I assume that this is even punishable in the Netherlands, if this is a lie. (libel)
According to the hotelier, the American was only in the hotel for 1 night.
It does not seem very likely to me that the American at that time had much opportunity to catch the hotelier with a whip in his hand.
He then spread that accusation worldwide, which will probably cost the hotel a lot of money.
The hotelier has filed a complaint against the American, which is his right and the police have arrested the American on the basis of that complaint.
The hotel will not comment further on the legal procedure and the penalty imposed.
That is up to the legislator and the court.
If it went as I described above, the American has gotten himself into a lot of trouble.
But he did that all by himself.
I don't know what a bottle of gin costs in Thailand, but if the hotel served that bottle of gin to its customers, the profit would probably be much higher than 500 Baht.
Can indeed understand that they charge a corkage fee ( probably only for farang ) but I think 500 bht is exaggerated to say the least. And the resort's reaction was way over it, I think they lost more customers because of this reaction than because of the review. And that Tripadvisor removed the review proves once again that the resort had influence higher up and that the review was therefore removed. I personally have also posted a bad review (but also many good ones) but have never been rejected. My first reaction is, now like many I think , avoid Sea View Koh Chang you are spoiled for choice.
Herman, you should read the article again. He has written 4 negative comments and, according to Thai newspapers, also a few under a different name. Mr. Barnes' goal was clearly to get rid of his grudge. This was clearly about reacting. I think that Dutch hotels do not accept this either.
But Dutch hotels make this a civil case at most, not a criminal case.
The Thais need to cut their toenails. The more idiotic the allegations, the more implausible the review. A bad review out of 1000 good ones really doesn't make me decide not to stay in this hotel. However, you can file a lawsuit against guest; imagine if this happens to me too, because I would feel unfairly treated by the receptionist and then start calling him an old grumpy, ugly, fat cousin. Not very neat, but a lawsuit?????
Hotel may be 100x right and Mr. Barnes is/was probably frustrated, but the hotel is shooting itself in the foot with all the negative publications.
A well-known travel journalist already wrote; From what planet do they come there from the hotel, that they sue because of a bad review rhyme with hospitality? And so it is!
It's not a criminal case! It won't matter until the resort takes him to court! The resort uses the police im to handle his problem and the police acted according to their method in this. Given the man in question has a criminal record for shooting incidents, there could be more to the case, but that's a secret! The press and we simple souls walk but to react is based on feeling and not on facts! Can someone have visa, work permit and teaching profession in thailand with criminal record for shooting incidents in public places? I find that much more disturbing.
I think, just out of decency, if the hotel serves gin, don't bring your own bottle. If you do this anyway, 14 € is a joke. I suggest you try this in the US, in Las Vegas, LA or New York. You will be amazed at the reaction, you will not get away with 14 dollars. Same in Belgium.
The readers of this blog love Thailand, many live there.
This incident with the American who gets into a lot of trouble because he criticized a hotel on Koh Chang on Tripadvisor is food for thought.
Of course, Thailand is fantastic and Thai people are (usually) exceptionally pleasant to deal with.
On the other hand, Thailand has an authoritarian government. Foreigners face unreasonable (in my opinion) visa rules.
Sometimes justified criticism, especially from foreigners, is not tolerated.
As a foreigner in Thailand you might wonder whether you are still welcome. And when you are in Thailand it is walking on eggshells: if you do not meet the many and complicated requirements of Immigration, you will be mercilessly arrested. You just have to swallow criticism.
Since my wife is from Thailand, I will probably spend a lot of time there (if I can still enter, that is). If it were up to me, I would look for another destination to spend my money.
FYI to everyone : this is the review the American had written :
Wesley B wrote a review Jul 2020 XNUMX
1 contribution527 helpful votes
Unfriendly staff and horrible restaurant manager
“Unfriendly staff, no one ever smiles. They act like they don't want anyone there. The restaurant manager was the worst. He is from the Czech Republic. He is extremely rude and impolite to guests. Find another place. There are plenty with nicer staff that are happy you are staying with them.”
In my humble opinion, I think it's outrageous that a hotel wants to and can take someone to court because of a review on Tripadvisor. In my opinion, such hotels should really be avoided if one does not want to get any unpleasant surprises after the trip !!! And the Thai legislation should also be urgently adjusted to this, in order to get tourism going again.
So the text written above is not completely correct and you should first check what was written on Tripadvisor before posting something like that.
Such things should not be minimized or trivialized for the sake of all future Thailand tourists;
Thailand has overly strict defamation laws, which can become problematic in several cases because companies and influential individuals can use those laws to intimidate critics.
Furthermore: this is not only about foreign press that has written about this: the Bangkok Post also did this and a higher-ranking person from the Koh Chang police even had an interview about this with a newspaper and RTL-Nieuws (cf. Colonel Thanapon Taemsara of Koh Chang Police to AFP news agency). That colonel said, according to RTL news, that Barnes was accused of "causing damage to the hotel's reputation and arguing with staff for not paying corkage for alcohol he brought from outside the hotel….
In short, it is really sad that a relaxing stay in a hotel can result in such an outrageous distortion of the situation by an injured hotelier and that the latter can even have his former customer sentenced to prison.
There are 4 reviews in the article and you have 1.
Nor do I see why anyone should not have the right to take another person to court who causes him harm.
If the review is a lie, you will need a court order to claim damages.
In the Netherlands too.
It is true that Thailand has strict laws, but that is the risk you run when you travel to other countries.
However, that does not mean that the hotelier should not file a complaint, because the penalties are so high.
And let's face it, do you bring your own food and drinks when you go to a restaurant?
Is it unreasonable to charge a fee if a customer brings his own alcohol and does not buy the alcohol from the restaurant?
Because that's where the argument started, 500 Baht for the alcohol you brought with you.
Was the requested fee unreasonable?
The story forgets to tell that he witnessed slavery treatment. Manager treated employee this way.
As far as I had seen, he has only given 4 reviews, 2 on tripadvisor and 2 on google. Also the treatment towards them (there were 2 of them) did not testify to managerial quality.
Or that should be the new managers quality.
You know the TV documentaries (holiday man, etc.), where managers are compromised and then misbehave.
This is no different in Thailand.
If you want to have good reviews as a resort, you will have to earn it and not because you belong to a rich Thai and you should not do that. Solve by calling the police.
Even TripAdvisor was turned on and they couldn't give a review about this resort for the time being.
As TripAdvisor said: made up story.
Well, how reviews are manipulated.
So you'll have to be careful in Thailand if you post an unwelcome review while you're still there.
The Thai government seems to be actively involved in a civil dispute by labeling it as criminal (defamation).
Quite apart from the fact that posting a negative review without the site in question moderating and/or giving the opportunity to be heard is, in my opinion, a bad aspect in the current internet era where reviews have, in principle, eternal value.
management is always entitled to reply to a review on tripadvisor. and as a regular user of the site I can assure you that every restaurant or hotel gets a bad or not so good review, as a frequent user you know that and see which reviews are the most common. I never let one bad review scare me off booking something. The reason for existence of sites like tripadvisor is precisely to give users the opportunity to make judgments based on the reviews and decide where to go to go.
This shows once again that placing references, rightly or wrongly, can cause damage. Why can't someone suffice with a simple less good reference like; I have not experienced the staff as friendly.
Or if you can give stars, then take 1 star off, always make sure everything is in proportion and also compliment things that were okay, such as the rooms were fine, the food was great, just a pity that the staff is moody. That doesn't come across as just spouting your negativity. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who sprays their bile on the internet can be tackled, it's so nice and easy to be anonymous.
Dear Ruud
In your opinion, guests should self-calibrate when giving a review.
I think you were also born in a free country where freedom of expression is of paramount importance and many people have lost their lives for that.
That this is not possible in this country is something that disturbs me immensely.
But to settle for that and start censoring yourself is really going too far for me.
If this hotel owner can't take criticism, he shouldn't have chosen this profession, not all birds sing a beautiful song.
And that this country still has Stone Age legislation that it is now abusing only makes it worse.
The result will be that people will avoid the hotel, which will cost him more than 500B cork money in the long run, and for Thailand in general, reputational damage is certainly not convenient at this time.
It is the short term thinking that takes this country to its grandeur.
Have a nice time here.
greeting
Piotr
I don't think it's anonymous Ruud, because the best man has been taken into custody and released on bail.
If you pay for an overnight stay and you see abuses, or you are treated as unwelcome, then a bad review is justified.
Or should one look the other way and say: wir haben es nicht gewusst.
By the way, that Tripadvisor partially agrees with this, that looks a lot like censorship.
It's like Facebook. What else do you need a Tripadvisor for.
It's a pity that something like this can escalate like this.
Corkage fee at Best Beef Sukhumvit in Bangkok only 50 Baht. Do you get a bucket of ice right away?
That hotel has certainly attracted enough attention due to his reaction, so that everyone now knows not to go there.
If they had handled this more discreetly, their “name” would not have been so badly maligned (by themselves). In fact your own fault, big bump!
How idiots destroy themselves through media frenzy, and clearly improper government interference.
The above reactions also show that most people only know part of the story. Now I don't want to claim that I know the story, but I've read other things.
Whether he had to pay 500 baht or more in corkage. The restaurant can decide that. After all, he used the restaurant and they also have service that has to be paid for.
It was not an employee who was Czech, it was the owner himself who was not Thai.
The man had written four reviews under different email addresses.
In the end, he was allowed to have his drink that night and didn't have to pay corkage. The hotel probably wanted to avoid an escalation. Well, there are two reasons why the hotel stopped asking for money: either there was a special occasion to do so, or the customer acted so badly that the hotel didn't want a scandal. The latter probably happened.
After that, the owner wrote to the man several times and offered to talk to him about it. He did not answer any email. It wasn't until the owner proceeded to sue him that he responded.
So, as some of the above stated that you only have to give a negative review, then you will be arrested is nonsense.
The hotelier was accused of treating his staff like slaves. I don't know what he saw, but the owner said that even though it was a difficult time, he didn't want to fire anyone and the staff continued to be paid.
As some know, I come from the service world myself and every host will do their utmost to satisfy their customers or to solve problems. The resort to the police is certainly the last resort when there is nothing left to do.
I think that man just had a big mouth and wanted to damage the hotel.
I agree with the hotelier and even now it appears that the owner is not letting it go, but still wants to talk to the man about the whole matter. That only speaks for him.
And you are better informed than others? Friend of that hotel manager or how else would you know better? As BramSiam says, the essence is that everyone should be free to write their own review about a stay in a hotel or restaurant without being sued by the manager and risking TWO years in prison !!!
Dear Nicole, Mr. Barnes is a resident of Thailand and a teacher. He knows or should know that you cannot insult or slander another without foundation and in Thailand there are strict laws for posting incorrect information on the internet and he should know that as a resident. There are limits to freedom of expression and recently dozens of people in the Netherlands have been brought to court (selected from a large number) who thought they could publish all sorts of nonsense on the internet, including racist insults and death threats and insults and more . In short, one person's freedom of expression is limited by the value and infringement of another, hope I put it that well.
Completely agree that he lives in Thailand and is a teacher there (or was, because with that arrest by the police they talked about firing him ... so really wrong !!!)
But who says or proves to you that Mr. Barnes posted INCORRECT or WRONG review on the internet …??? Or infringed on freedom of expression?
And it's not about racism or death threats here, so please don't backfire. You are here telling stories that have nothing to do with the essence of this case.
This is simply a dissatisfied customer, who puts his dissatisfaction on TripAdvisor to warn other possible tourists. Instead of helping such a person, you shoot him beforehand… Punish how some think they are always right !!!
I don't think you quite get it. Of course someone should be free to write a review. But you are not free to accuse someone of (serious) criminal offenses in public just like that. That is not allowed in the Netherlands, that is not allowed in Thailand either.
In this situation, someone has made accusations and the accused feels that his honor and reputation have been tarnished. If you then want to have clarity about the facts (who is right, the guest or the owner) then it makes sense that you submit the case to the court.
Then read this…. https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/expats/koh-chang-resort-sues-american-over-bad-review
Jack,
it is good to put this site. However, I think that the people who have responded and have already posted a very negative comment in advance will never bother to read this. People do not investigate the facts, be it on Tripadvisor or face-book etc., but react directly and quite often wrongly.
What the man has written is called libel in the Netherlands and is punishable by a maximum of 1 year in prison or a fine.
The grab to the police is not possible in a democratic country and certainly not defensible. Can you imagine being arrested here in Europe for writing a negative restaurant review?
The fact that the owner now wants to talk to the man is probably motivated by self-interest, he now realizes that the fuss he has made is only bad publicity for his business. His resort has gone around the world and will suffer the negative consequences for a long time to come. Tripadvisor has also gone wrong here (probably under political pressure), it cannot be that a negative review is removed, the owner always has the right to reply to Tripadvisor. It cannot be the intention that only positive reviews are allowed, that undermines the raison d'être and reliability of the site. The users themselves are quite capable of judging themselves based on the reviews
You can also be taken to court in NL - see article 261 of the Penal Code:
He who willfully assaults someone's honor or reputation, by charging with a specific act, with the apparent purpose of publicizing it, shall, as guilty of libel, be liable to a term of imprisonment not exceeding six months or a fine of the third category.'
If you, just like the American in question, post a negative review under different names about the same issue, the condition of 'intent' has certainly been met; if the subject/victim of the review is of the opinion that the facts are incorrect and feels that his honor or good name has been damaged, you can also go to the police in the Netherlands and file a report.
And will you be arrested by the police in the Netherlands? I do not think so. At most, a file is made that will probably be classified because they indeed have better things to do.
That is not decided by the police. Whether or not to prosecute is a matter for the Public Prosecution Service,
The man didn't want to talk to the hotel and not the other way around.
A hotelier who does not understand the concept of hospitality deserves nothing else. JESUS getting a guest into such trouble over something as trivial as a bad review. Such hotels can be locked immediately from me! Asking for 500 baht corkage also testifies to milking customers and has nothing to do with hospitality.
But what matters is criticism. Thais should learn to deal with that!
It is remarkable that there is so much response to the content of the review. The point is that you cannot safely leave a review in Thailand unless it is positive. For example, a review has little value.
Tripadvisor should warn people that reviewing is a dangerous business in Thailand.
The legal position of an individual, unless it is a wealthy Thai individual, is poor to non-existent. Many are not aware of that.
Tripadvisor is a money-making site and it represents the interests of those who contribute the most. It's not rocket science at all.
The kklojesvol vent his / her heart and in that sense work for such a site.
https://www.missethoreca.nl/restaurant/nieuws/2020/01/rambam-pakt-the-fork-aan-zelfs-slechte-reviews-leveren-voldoende-op-101330625?vakmedianet-approve-cookies=1&io_source=www.google.com&_ga=2.40596002.1499197690.1601647423-2057095843.1601647423
A review should paint a picture of how someone experienced their visit to, for example, a restaurant.
The text:
Unfriendly staff and horrible restaurant manager
“Unfriendly staff, no one ever smiles. They act like they don't want anyone there. The restaurant manager was the worst. He is from the Czech Republic. He is extremely rude and impolite to guests. Find another place. There are plenty with nicer staff that are happy you are staying with them.”
comes across to me as deliberate blackening and as a big lie.
Note that he involves other guests in his accusation. (He is extremely rude and impolite to guests.)
If the staff really behaved this way towards their guests, no one would come to eat.
There are two sides to every story and I think it's good that someone can be held accountable.
That American does not feel well treated, while it may have been due to his own annoying behavior. The customer is king but I am emperor is my thought in the situations.
This will of course never come to a case and it is no reason not to dare to give assessments if it is worded reasonably as stated in an earlier response.
Tripadvisor earns from negative reviews. As an entrepreneur you can have a negative review removed. For a fee, of course.
My humble opinion:
If you want to use a certain bottle of wine, or gin or ... whatever (which the restaurant cannot offer), because of a special occasion, you must first discuss this with the owner.
It seems logical to me that they charge “corkage” for this (this also happens in my country), it is a matter of a gentlemen's agreement between both parties.
We will never know what happened next.
Reviews are supposed to be correct … but there are people who write bad reviews for certain reasons (founded or not) but on the other hand how many fake reviews are there to recommend their own hotel, restaurant … the knife cuts on both sides.
Two years ago I was in the Sea View and didn't really see any slavery there (at least physically). Koh Chang has been my favorite island for years and in the other hotel (which is my preference) I have never had the impression that the staff are treated badly, on the contrary. When I say staff, I mean Cambodians, Filipinos … (for the language) Isan people and yes Europeans .. so all foreigners, so to speak. The management is always Thai (read BKK).
I think all the fuss is due to tension .. there are no tourists and therefore no income and this is starting to pay off (tension is rising)… and probably that cowboy thought he was King because he spent a few baths there …
Hopefully everything will reopen in a controlled manner soon so that people who are sane (and corona free) can support the local population financially and with the necessary respect and smile as I have always done and experienced. I call this mutual respect.
the many responses here prompt me to suggest a few things differently. The guests (37 years old) were in a 5 star resort where rooms are sold for up to 500 euros per night. There come guests who are themselves 5 stars and everything in such a resort is designed accordingly. If you then possibly get drunk guests in your restaurant who make a noise, it is horrible for the other guests. You don't pay for that. If the gentlemen are not prepared to pay 250 baht for a glass of gin and therefore go to 711 to get their own bottle, that is very bad behavior! It is logical that the restaurant requires a cork fee because apart from the profit on the alcohol, they do offer the space, the tables, the staff and the expensive spot on the beach. One of the 2 guests was embarrassed and was happy to pay, only the person in question was unreasonable and continued to taunt. The man appears to be a hothead which is proven by the fact that he has a criminal record in USA where he shot several times with a revolver in a cafe because he was irritated. There is even an ongoing criminal case that has not yet been completed. That indicates what kind of meat is in the tub. Then the reviews: 1 time a decent 1 star review is acceptable for everyone. Also in Thailand! But weekly on multiple sites such as tripadvisor and google (and who knows on even more review sites) is unacceptable. Especially considering the content that is no longer an assessment but a declaration of war. If you get into trouble as a resort with a turnover of almost 1 million baht oer day, you have to take action not to get into deep trouble after 6 months of heavy loss. Resort has contacted the reviewer to rectify the matter. Reviewer declined to comment. The last option is to call the police to make contact. That is also the case in NL! You file a report. However, the case then goes to the authorities and they themselves decide how to act. In this case very very resolutely and you don't know if there were more complaints about this man for other and previous cases! That is secret and should not be made public. Considering that he has several criminal records and has a visa(!) Is already impossible. There are other things that may play a role. Very easy to conjure up the verdicts of the USA court on your screen via Google in a few minutes! It should be the job of immigration to find out. How can someone with a criminal record get a work permit as an English teacher in a Thai school? Isn't it immovable? The 5 page text that the reviewer has submitted in his own language is full of language errors! Can he teach? The whole thing stinks and all our conclusions not based on facts and motivated by bad journalism only make the problem worse and put the gravity of the problem on the wrong wound. I've seen many very rude customers in the hospitality industry who I certainly wouldn't want to make feel like they can still "win" after their misconduct.
Finally… you, Matcham, are the only one more informed than most of the writers of these comments. When I first heard about it, I immediately clicked on the relevant links and read what was written about it. That American is clearly wrong, was warned several times and as a last resort the hotel has decided to involve the police.
Most writers don't seem to see this and like to forget that the guest was wrong. Not the hotel.
What's "wrong" about writing a review, good or bad? What is definitely wrong is to lock someone up in jail for 2 days without a trial and release them on bail (for what is ultimately trivial). I would not like such situations to occur in a democratic country and fortunately do not see it happening in the Netherlands or Belgium.
Wrong or not wrong is therefore not the essence of the matter, but the excessive reaction of the resort's management. The consequences for the resort are financially detrimental in the long term and this only due to the excessive reaction and not due to the review, rightly so Incidentally.
That American man had misbehaved and not one, but four reviews, each time written under a different address. His goal was clear. Harm the hotel.
This seems much more appropriate and grounded as a post from Hotel.Intel.co (intelligence for hoteliers) – Authors Wimintra J. Raj
Wimintra is the founder and Editor in Chief of Hotelintel.co – A Political Science graduate, who fell in love with hotels. When she isn't writing, she is speaking at industry events.
http://wimintra.com
More posts by Wimintra J. Raj
A US man is facing two years jail time in Thailand after posting negative reviews on TripAdvisor about the hotel at which he stayed.
TripAdvisor has responded to the incident of Wesley Barnes posting negative reviews on Sea View Koh Chang's Tripadvisor account. He was sued by the resort's owner and may face up two years jail time. Barnes has already been held in custody between the 12th – 14th of September, 2020 at a local prison in Koh Chang He was released on bail.
TripAdvisor's statement:
“Tripadvisor is opposed to the idea that a traveler can be prosecuted for expressing opinions. Thankfully, on a global basis, prosecutions like this are rare and hundreds of millions of travelers are able to express themselves freely without facing criminal charges.
Tripadvisor was created on the premise that consumers have the right to write about their first hand traveling or dining experiences – good or bad – as those reviews are one of the most powerful ways to enable others to find all that is good out there in this world .
Travelers benefit from the transparency of hundreds of millions of candid reviews provided on our platform. Similarly, the platform allows hoteliers and other travel-related businesses to reply to criticism and engage travelers in what we hope are meaningful and positive dialogues.
We continue to support our users' right to give honest, positive or negative, constructive feedback to the millions of businesses on our site. We are continuing our investigation into this incident and have reached out to the US Embassy in Thailand.”
The next court appointment for Wesley Barns will be on the 6th of October, 2020.
Dear nicole r, the hotel intel article you show here says nothing. They do not take a position and only show what tripadvisor publishes. This lady makes a big mistake by mentioning that there is a lawsuit, because there is none. Very wrong of that lady! Resort has complained to police and what happened next is unknown! He was fired for criminal record, obtaining illegal visas, teaching without a work permit and who knows more. It seems that several problems have been jumbled together and everyone is shouting what they have read everywhere but is not based on truths.