Reader question: My Thai wife's son has turned 18 and wants to become a Dutch citizen
Dear readers,
My wife's son has turned 18 and wants to become a Dutch citizen. He now has permanent residence and a Thai passport. It is said that he must automatically surrender his Thai nationality, but there are exceptions. That is why he objected because of inheritance law and great financial disadvantage. The municipal official says he has little (no) chance of that.
We have land and our own house in Thailand. Further justification is that he has a half-brother who has 2 passports by birth. His mother has the Thai nationality with indefinite residence. Now the rules regarding Thai partners in Dutch law are much clearer since 2013. What about children who came to the Netherlands with their mother? Who has experience with this?
The IND must act in accordance with the following:
Thailand
A and sometimes B
The (automatic) loss of Thai nationality becomes effective after publication in the Thai Government Gazette. According to Article 13 of the Thai Nationality Act, a Thai woman who is married to a person of non-Thai nationality does not automatically lose Thai nationality after her naturalization to her husband's nationality. She can, however, renounce her Thai nationality. This is not asked of her in the Netherlands since she falls under one of the exception categories (article 9 paragraph 3 RWN).
Thai women who are married to a non-Dutch partner will automatically lose their Thai nationality when they acquire Dutch nationality. This also applies to the Thai who is married to a Thai partner.
With kind regards,
Erik
When you read this like this, you tend to say "what a mess" and "why is that necessary now". What's wrong with Thai nationality? Does it have to do with our social safety net? What does the real father say about that or did he leave with the Zuiderzon as you see so often? Indeed, the Thai woman can have two nationalities, like my wife. Very, very easy. Inheritance law, if you have been deregistered for 10 years, that expires, gifts are also tax-free. Inheritance law is of course theft, but you see that more often in the Netherlands, just think of the AOW.
Interesting topic, the nationality issue.
Our granddaughter has both Belgian and Thai nationality. Keeping the latter seems to me essential if she is to later be eligible (via purchase or inheritance) to acquire real estate in Thailand.
Possession of multiple passports is in principle not allowed in the Netherlands. Inheritance law, financial disadvantage and the status of a half-brother have no influence on this in my opinion. Although there are three exceptions, I fear for this son that the exceptions relevant to him are aimed at Dutch people who were born/raised elsewhere and may, under certain conditions, take on the nationality of that 'elsewhere'. I also fear that the rules in the Netherlands have become so strict that experiences that are only a few years old are no longer a guideline. I therefore advise you to talk to a truly specialized lawyer before this son takes even one step.
From your words, I understand that his mother/your wife only has Thai nationality. It probably doesn't matter what nationality(s) she has. This son is grown and I highly doubt his mother's status has any bearing.
If I - not a lawyer - let my imagination run wild on this, it might be possible to 1. accept Dutch citizenship with the formal loss of Thai nationality and then 2. apply for Thai nationality using the exceptions that exist for Dutch nationals. being (whatever he is at that moment). However, before you start something like this, you must be absolutely certain that this son would indeed fall under one of the exception groups, that there is no Dutch law anywhere that prevents this trick and that the Thai government will actually grant him his nationality again. gives back.
There is extensive discussion here about Thai women and their position. However, it is now about an adult Thai man who wants to become a Dutch citizen. That's something completely different. He can apply for Dutch citizenship just like anyone else. If granted, he will automatically lose his Thai nationality. This is often cheated, but that is not without risk. If it comes to an identity check in Thailand, conviction and imprisonment can follow. Has happened.
There is a world of difference between the legislation and the practical implementation of this matter. That 18-year-old boy should simply accept Dutch citizenship and say that of course he will respect the law. A Dutch passport has many advantages, just think of traveling around the world, try doing that with a Thai passport and you will almost always need a guarantor. It is important for him to keep his Thai identity card valid because that is what applies in Thailand so that as a Thai he can do all actions such as purchasing/owning land. Unfortunately, we foreigners are still discriminated against in Thailand. So you must remain registered in Thailand with a local municipality. With a valid Thai identity card, he can always apply for a Thai passport, also in the Netherlands. Finally, it should be noted that never have documents published on Dutch nationality in the Thai government gazette. The Thai authorities do not ask for this and what you don't know doesn't matter. Good luck with your dual nationality.
If this son also applies for that Thai passport without belonging to one of the exception groups in the Netherlands, he will probably immediately lose his Dutch nationality as soon as the Dutch government finds out. It is simply prohibited by law. Afterwards he should not be surprised if there is no longer any 'residence for an indefinite period' for him in the Netherlands. I maintain that it is advisable not to fumble yourself, but to get a specialized lawyer involved before even one step is taken. This is not about the choice between an egg cake, a currant bun or both.
I foresee that the rules will be tightened rather than weakened in the Netherlands in the coming years. The fact that there are now only limited checks on holding two passports does not mean that this will remain the case. After all, a large group of Dutch people would like to see fewer foreign residents living in their country. If it is up to the party that represents them, no one in the Netherlands is allowed to have two passports anymore. Then the exception groups will also expire. I'm afraid a witch hunt cannot be ruled out afterwards. The party is doing very well in the polls.
Could it help this son to get the so-called EU 'blue card'? Then there must probably be an employer who supports the application. In that case, he has the right to live and work in the EU.
How can someone who renounces Thai nationality (and this is formally reported in the Thai government gazette, etc. because the IND wants to see proof of this) keep a Thai ID and apply for a passport again? Not. Of course you can always try to become Thai again and hope that the Netherlands will not experience any of this. But simply surrendering your Thai passport is not enough, it is only a travel document and is therefore not equivalent to surrendering your nationality. Unfortunately, many people and media write about “dual passports” where “dual/multiple nationality” is meant, while there is a substantial difference.
The requirement set by the Netherlands: Dual nationality is not permitted except on a number of exceptional grounds (married to a Dutch national, renunciation of old nationality not possible, unreasonable consequences, etc.). For Thailand it doesn't matter if you allow another nationality, Thailand doesn't forbid that. So even if the Thai authorities learn that you are also Dutch, there is nothing to worry about.
The possible scenarios I see and then option number 1 would be my preference:
1) You invoke unreasonable consequences, after all one of the exemptions is the following:
“You would by relinquishing your present
nationality(ies) lose certain rights, as a result
you suffer serious financial loss. For example, think
to inheritance. You must do this when submitting your application.
seek to demonstrate naturalization.”
Erik's son is now trying this, whether the IND will/can go along with it, you should ask an immigration lawyer or Thai someone who has been in the same boat for the past few years. So please contact someone who knows the business! With a bit of luck, he will respond here, but I think it is really time to approach an immigration lawyer.
2) Marry someone with the Dutch nationality, then you also get an exemption from the obligation to give up the old nationality.
3) If the IND insists that there is no compelling interest (ground for exception), then the only thing that remains is to distance yourself from the Thai nationality. The IND will want to see official proof of this so that it is certain that the Thai authorities no longer see him as Thai.
3b) After this, apply for Thai nationality again and then ensure/hope that the Netherlands will not find out about this so that you still have two nationalities, but this would be contrary to Dutch law (!!).
Is it completely true, Rob V, that it is annoying that everyone (including me) just talks about 'double passports' for the sake of convenience, while it is often about 'dual/multiple nationality'. To ensure that someone does not run away, it can be decided fairly quickly to confiscate his/her Dutch passport. However, there is much more to taking away Dutch nationality from someone. If the person in question only has Dutch nationality, I think it is even impossible.
I am not aware of the legislation, but why should the stepson automatically be entitled to Dutch nationality?
He has a Thai father, a Thai mother and I assume was born in Thailand.
Apparently the Netherlands is willing to give him Dutch nationality, provided he gives up his Thai nationality.
Not an unreasonable position in itself.
That he has a half-brother with two nationalities is not an argument.
He has a Dutch father and that is different.
Inheritance law and financial disadvantage do not seem to me to be arguments, but matters that you take into account in the choice you make.
You may get further if you officially adopt him.
But I don't promise that.
Adoption has been possible in theory since 2005, but whether it is easy is another matter. In addition, I am not so sure that the adopted son automatically acquires Dutch citizenship without losing Thai nationality. His mother is also not Dutch. It all remains fodder for specialized lawyers.
It is different if he or she submits the application before the age of 18.
Greetings Francis.
I doubt this helps. To be allowed to have two passports, someone must belong to one of the exception groups. That's the criterion.
There are enough people with two passports, look at Maxima, everything is allowed there. Just say you're giving up your Thai nat. and if you have a Dutch passport, you have changed your mind and see what happens
going to happen
The oranges are sometimes above the law. Max received the Dutch nationality as a gift when she still lived in Argentina (or New York?). Normally you have to live here for 5 or 3 years or be married to a Dutch person. Max was excluded because Willem could only marry a Dutchman and living together unmarried for 3 years was apparently not an option. Hence the social treatment that ordinary citizens did not receive. The procedure will probably not have taken a year (throughput time naturalization is max 1 year, often about 8-9 in practice) or cost them money. Max came before the integration legislation, but don't think she had to take an "old comers" exam at DUO. So not comparable with the bunch of people that Maxima and Willem Alexander.
As soon as you have completed the naturalization ceremony, they want to see that you renounce the old one within a reasonable period of time and this can be done without a doubt. So if you fail to prove that you really no longer have Thai nationality (Thai government gazette due report that you are no longer Thai and therefore your Thai passport and ID have become worthless) then your Dutch citizenship will be revoked. So loud are the law and practical examples of people who were slapped hard (or almost got it, but still demonstrably gave up their old nationality just in the nick of time) that they lost their Dutch citizenship again, you can find on Foreignpartner.nl
So again, you don't get the NL nationality as a gift, there are various requirements and controlled and you don't deviate from that if you're not Orange. Although a certain party pretends that the Netherlands is handing out passports, residence permits, benefits and houses like candy…
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