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Home » Reader question » Over-the-counter medicines in Thailand, isn't that life-threatening?
Dear readers,
Now that I'm in Pattaya I sometimes walk into a Pharmacy for medicines. What strikes me is that the prices per Pharmacy differ quite a bit. How is that possible?
And you don't get a leaflet with anything. There is also no question about allergies. Isn't that life-threatening? In the Netherlands alone, 17.000 to 20.000 deaths occur every year due to wrong medicines or medical errors [with medicines],” said a forensic doctor in the NRC. More road deaths than are killed annually (https://mcc-omnes.nl/system/ckeditor_assets/attachments/857/181025_Artikel_Medicatieveiligheid.pdf).
How many people die in Thailand from drug use?
Regards,
Bennie
Editors: Do you have a question for the readers of Thailandblog? Use it contact form..
No idea how many people die from it. I can only say from my own experience that I have always been well informed at the larger pharmacies in Thailand and the medicines available for my condition always help, just like those I get in the Netherlands, of course under a different brand name and other excipients in the pills. but the main ingredient is the same.
A (Thai) friend of my wife has suffered irreversible liver damage because she has taken too much paracetamol for too long. She started doing this in Thailand, nobody had ever told her that you can take a maximum of 4 grams of paracetamol per day, and preferably not for too long unless prescribed by a doctor.
That could also have happened to you in the Netherlands. Paracetamol can be purchased without a prescription almost everywhere in the world. Also in Thailand it is usually in a package. I think there is also a leaflet or something on the packaging. But no one reads it.
Yes, there are those people who no longer consume antacids, paracetamol, alcohol, cigarettes, sex and so on and then complain afterwards that no one told them that it could have consequences. Read a little, ask a little, learn a little life wisdom, listen to your family and friends; but above all, don't complain afterwards. Don't just swallow anything in advance, but first find out what the consequences may be. This applies to everything you take, whether it is a mushroom, Thai peppers or something with painkillers.
Bennie, a pharmacist is an entrepreneur and apparently the prices of medicines in Thailand are free.
If a doctor prescribes something for you, the doctor will have to ask -or check his file-
whether or not you are allowed to have a certain substance. I have experienced in Thailand that you have to take a good look at it yourself and you need the information leaflets for that. If desired, you can retrieve it from Google if you have the (chemical) name of the product. It often states with which other substances an interaction can occur. Resources can reinforce or counteract each other.
If you buy resources on your own initiative, you have to get started on Google yourself. Demand that leaflet! Then you get it too. Often there are warnings on the packaging. If it is only in Thai and you cannot read it, then, well, then it will be difficult….. Then you need an interpreter.
When I buy medicines in Pattaya, the box always contains a leaflet. Mostly in TH and in English . Now you can find the information leaflet for all medicines on the internet. Type in the medicine and ask for the package insert.
Now a lot of heavy medicines in TH are also only available through the hospital. The over the counter drugs are more of the everyday types.
Now when I go to the doctor in Belgium, he almost never asks about allergies when he prescribes a medicine.
My opinion on medicine and care is that you should think for yourself. If you are allergic to certain substances, a doctor cannot just know immediately.
No one knows your body better than you.
Agree with you: There are plenty of "heavy" medicines available at the pharmacy. A few examples: Vimpat, Depakote, both are medicines against epilepsy and especially Depakote is addictive and dangerous. Furthermore, prozac, various barbiturates, viagra, and cough medicines that are stiff with the sleep-inducing variants of antihistamine, and nice creams full of cortisone that destroy your skin in 2/3 weeks.
The above is only a very brief summary
You can simply ask for the leaflet. And that's what you get. "Manual"
I use the word 'instructions' or 'information leaflet'.
You can find leaflets on the internet.
A lot of information about medicines can be found on Healthline.com – in English.
A doctor or pharmacist is obliged to mention the side effects of a medicine. My ex once bought an antihistamine for an allergy, took two right away, and fell asleep on the drive home. Fortunately, she came to a stop on a quiet country road. I spoke to the relevant pharmacist who said that she had bought those tablets before and needed to know the side effects. Just giving a leaflet is not enough.
Oh, and 17 to 20 thousand deaths a year from converted drug use? In my opinion that is not true. It will be around 1 thousand. Still too much of course.
The prices of medicines are not imposed from above, so each seller asks what he or she thinks is right. It is therefore worthwhile to shop, especially if you need a certain medicine more often. After every checkup at my ophthalmologist, the assistant has 2 bottles of eye drops ready, which are on the bill for 1200 baht each. Every time she has to take them off the bill because I don't want them, because at the local pharmacy they only cost half. By the way, leaflets are always included.
Well, in Thailand a pharmacist is just a salesman who wants to sell his product (often/sometimes without any medical training). Today he sells medicine and maybe tomorrow noodles. Although there will certainly also be “serious pharmacists” among them. It is even worse in India/Bangladesh, where medicines are often sold that are sometimes already 20 years old (especially in remote areas).
Today I find the above question for an information leaflet a bit naive. Almost everyone has access to the internet. This way you can request any side effects.
Dear Benny,
It is true that prices for medicines can differ between pharmacies and also between hospitals. My experience with Lantus insulin: hospital 3800 Baht, pharmacy 4400 Baht. Betmiga hospital 1200 Baht, pharmacy 1430 Baht.
But there are much bigger problems:
1. The professionalism of the pharmacist sometimes leaves much to be desired. I wanted Hydroxocobalamin (Vitamin B12 deficiency) and he told me that Cyanocobalamin is the same and is good too. The latter stuff is hardly used in the western world and belongs in the trash.
2. Because people can freely buy medicines anywhere, the pharmacist cannot monitor whether medicines can be used together. In NL with your regular pharmacy, the pharmacist does.
3. Doctors sometimes tell you only limited information about side effects. For example, last year the internist gave me Dafiro 10/160 and that stuff is to lower blood pressure and he always examined my feet on subsequent visits, but he didn't say why. Now Dafiro contains the substance amlodipine and that is on the list of medicines that have edema as a side effect and indeed I recently have pitting edema and that is why I switched to another medicine.
Living in Thailand, self-examination such as looking up drug data and possible cross-effects is absolutely necessary.
Rembrandt
Ger-Korat, please wait! Don't call every sick person stupid!
Even the least educated person knows what you can get from sex (children, and otherwise your intimate parts will itch), you get less stomach acid from antacids, the 'race' or constipation, you can take paracetamol up to 2 grams per day as an adult, alcohol has been in moderation for centuries, and for serious medical ailments there is the doctor, also in Thailand. Please don't act like we don't know shit! By "we" I mean the average white nose.
But I can imagine that there are Thai people who see the doctor as a representative of the Lord Buddha who gives his judgment up there in heaven and lets the pills fall down their throats on a parachute. I don't blame those people; their doctor.
Experienced it myself with a general practitioner in Thailand. My cholesterol sounded like a clock but mister d'n doctor thought it was too high! Me, not falling on my mouth, wrote out the formula for the calculation of the correct cholesterol: so much hdl, so much ldl, so much tg and that together is ... xyz. 'Isn't right, can't, farang you're wrong…' and mister was so angry, he walked away from the room and I could leave….. Mister had seriously lost his face. I never saw him again…
Months later I came back and found a different doctor. At the same desk with a neat brown cloth to write on. A glass plate underneath. And yes, damn, under that glass plate MY cholesterol calculation….
After my two surgeries in Thailand (hip replacement and a broken leg) I was given painkillers (NSAID) that I was NOT allowed to have with my current medication. I refused and got the surgeon and the blood doctor in my room. I sent the nurses away and told both doctors why I couldn't take such and such things because of my ongoing medication. An hour later Mr. Pharmacist in my room with the blush of shame on his cheeks who flatly claimed that he did not know my current medication! But, damn it, I had handed it over to the surgeon well in time….
Probably disappeared in the circular archive… I will never blame an ordinary Thai citizen again. I wonder if Thai doctors and pharmacists are trained for this. Or maybe they don't think the customer is more important than their big ego….
For what it's worth.
There are indeed restrictions on the sale of medicines in Thailand.
There are a number of drugs that can be addictive.
There, a sale on prescription only is the possibility.
The relevant Pharmacy asks for a prescription and will have to file it.
Usually you get these prescriptions through the hospital, so this is not a problem. However, if you get the prescription from a doctor, the doctor's license (registration) number will be stated on the prescription.
An example here is the drug "Ultracet" (a paracetamol with tramadol addition) to which you can easily become addicted.
But you can get tramadol here without a prescription and paracetamol too, so you can 🙂
Where it is usually difficult to redo are medicines with opioids.
Herman, tramadol is a morphine-like painkiller that is counted among the opioids. Tramadol is not freely available everywhere since the youth discovered the drug to 'sniff' with…..
I am a chronic pain patient and therefore regularly take Tramadol, which I usually get here without any problems (I stay here 6 months a year) and I am aware of what tramadol is. The strange thing is that tramadol is freely available, but Dafalgan + codeine must be prescribed just as diazepam (valium) acts as a muscle relaxant. but usually you get something that is equivalent.
I think a Thai family member has completed a university education to become a pharmacist.
So saying that Thai pharmacists have no education is nonsense. Perhaps this will differ from a Western education.
Doctors also have training, but when I went to my doctor to ask where my headaches came from, his first answer was migraine. Thought ok, no fun.
Before the penny dropped for me, not for the doctor, I had already progressed for a while. I had been taking statins for more than six months and was “good” for them, so I didn't look into them at first.
Until the penny dropped, experimented and yes, it worked. Back to doctor, who referred me to specialist. The general practitioner has no other choices. What does the specialist do, just try & error and give me another same problem and another same problem.
OK statins don't work for me anymore and never again after researching the internet about statins.
Even switched to turmeric. Cholesterol was 3, which would be a little too high, but much lower than it once was. Submitted to specialist.. No, it doesn't work, but it's lower, isn't it?
OK keep going with it, see if placebo(?) effect would be nullified. After all, I knew it doesn't work.
Next check up still 3 again, well just say so. Does it work or not? Or has my body changed?
Sometimes I have the idea that doctors are too arrogant and not open, like ah, another oldie with problems.
Also read about amlodipine and edema here in the blog. Damn, I also had trouble with it twice, but I didn't think about it anymore. However, I see that amlodipine can cause this and I have been taking it for a while. Something like that again.
Would you recommend watching this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXZgNewBfLY
He tells it best loosely and normally without stilted Dutch and technical terms
Medicines, I spend more on the transfer costs than on the "medicines". And every year the pharmacist may give an extra bill for information, not that I ever get it.
For the 3 months of amlodipine I pay, I thought, 2 euros. But 8 euros on top for transfer. Something similar for the enalapril.
I have looked at an online supplier and could save, but yes whether the doctor will do that. Probably not, system. They are more expensive, but can be delivered more and I do not have to pay the 8 euros / medicine for transfer every time.
Because that comes back every time (4x / year / medicine) and I have to pay everything myself because of my own risk.
One thing is for sure there is cheating with prices, always, everywhere
A Thai pharmacy, just like a Belgian/NL pharmacy, is under the supervision of a real pharmacist. However, most pharmacies are simply run by pharmacy assistants. These people have received a year of training after high school but do not have a pharmacy diploma at all. They are of course always under the supervision of the pharmacist owner. If the pharmacist is not present, they will always contact him if in doubt. Now you don't need a university degree to pick up a box of paracetamol or a hemorrhoid ointment from a rack and pay for what accounts for about 90% of the work in a pharmacy.
Doctors; pharmacists…. and then you have the seers! Last month, a child in the family was hospitalized in Khon Kaen with heart problems. Still spent a week in the hospital and had the necessary medication ... until here nothing abnormal (in our western eyes). Once at home, it was considered important to go to a seer, because taking medicine without a seer having said his say could never be right (according to their Thai view)! They even drove 150 km to a "respected" seer, who came to the conclusion that the child's grandfather was too loud every time he was drunk and that too many trees had recently been cut down in the vicinity of the forest and that because of this the local ghosts lost track and thus continued to wander in the village ... The seer's advice was that one should build a proper track back into the forest so that the ghost would disappear again and the child would get well soon … So the whole family went to work and a decent path was built in the forest …. and sure enough, the child got better quickly….!! Of course I didn't cancel anything here because that would never be accepted with gratitude! So you see… who do people rely on here the most… on the technical/medical advice of a pharmacist/doctor or on the “expert” advice of a seer or a respected monk from the village?? So a seer with some business aptitude can sell some tools, because they buy it anyway if they get such advice!