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Home » Reader question » Question to Dutch people in Thailand who are taxable
Question to Dutch people in Thailand who are taxable
Dear readers,
I have a question for Dutch people who live in Thailand and are liable to pay tax there.
My brother-in-law has been living permanently in Thailand as a pensioner since September 2018 and needs a declaration for his payroll tax exemption. He is 72 years old and speaks fluent Thai but does not have access to the internet in Thailand and is not at home in it.
Now he has been to the tax office in Phetchabun to request a statement (as prescribed by the Dutch tax authorities) showing that he is liable to tax in Thailand from 2020, but this will only be issued when he files his first tax return in Thailand in 2020. going to do.
In order not to get into trouble with stopping his pension or paying double taxation, the question is whether anyone knows how and where he can get this statement?
He also wants to have his affairs properly arranged in Thailand, just like before in the Netherlands, so that he can still enjoy a nice old age here.
I would like a response from people who can tell him where he can get or apply for such a declaration of tax liability in Thailand.
Thanks and regards,
Herman
I understand that he does not meet the days requirement this year, so he is not liable for tax in 2018. That alone is an argument to put in 'Heerlen': he has no tax liability NOW and cannot prove anything. Refer Heerlen to the days requirement in Thai law.
Experience shows that supra-provincial tax offices in Thailand have more knowledge. Go there. But where there is no tax liability, nothing can be explained!
So ask Heerlen for an exemption for two years. I assume that exemption from national insurance and healthcare insurance is also requested?
Why his pension should be 'stopped' eludes me.
Success.
He only started living permanently in Thailand in September 2018 and, as Erik already writes, will not meet the days requirement in 2018.
It is not clear to me why he only becomes taxable in 2020 and not already in 2019. Assuming that he does meet the days requirement in 2019, he is also taxable that year. He may not pay any assessment for 2019 until 2020, but that will not change his tax liability in 2019.
If you are deregistered in the Netherlands and live abroad, the national insurance premium and health insurance will automatically lapse. No action is required for this at government institutions that are informed by the municipality.
As far as the pension fund is concerned, please sound the alarm here and, where appropriate, have the national insurance withholding stopped. They must know that you, as a non-resident taxpayer, do not owe any premiums and therefore do not have to withhold these.
Your pension and state pension is safe and will not be stopped, tax will be levied on it, I thought about 9%
After a stay of 180 days in Thailand, Mr. is a tax resident here and can apply for a TIN (tax indification number). With this he can apply for a Certificate of status taxable person: RO24. This states that the applicant is registered as a taxable person. This form is provided in English. No tax needs to be paid at the time of application. The Dutch tax authorities are satisfied with this.
It is finally time for Heerlen to take the trouble to investigate when someone in Thailand is liable for tax. That would make life a lot easier for everyone. The rule is: one is taxable in Thailand if one stays there > 180 days per year.
So: if someone applies for tax exemption in Heerlen and can demonstrate (for example with copies of your passport, which shows how long you stay in Thailand on an annual basis.
There is theoretically the possibility that people in Thailand have to declare (because more than 180 days stay per year), but - due to the many exemptions - do not have to pay tax. So the question arises: what will Heerlen do then? Especially if tax would have to be paid in the Netherlands.
The Tax Treaty makes it clear that those who - in principle - have to formally file a tax return in Thailand (because > 180 days in Thailand) can receive an exemption in the Netherlands. So even if they de facto do not have to pay tax in Thailand.
And what if this group is told by the Thai tax authorities: “sir/madam, you have a fixed annual pension and no tax is due on that basis. And so you will no longer have to file a tax return in the coming years”.
But yes, the NL Tax and Customs Administration does say "we can't make it more fun, but it's easier" does everything it can to avoid applying that slogan in practice.
As long as that is the case, I am afraid that Erik's suggestion will not actually lead – unfortunately – to the desired effect (exemption).
Hello Erik, what is meant by the day requirement? And can you tell us more about the exemption from national insurance and health insurance law? Every little bit helps to have a pension, so to speak
Sjaak, this blog contains a tax file. Go read there; your questions are explained there. Good luck!
I think your brother-in-law is taxable in Thailand for 2019 because then he will reach his 180 (190?) days in Thailand. After that, he can start applying for a Thai Tax number, which I think is already possible in the 2nd or 3rd quarter of 2019. Whether he actually does not have to pay tax in the Netherlands depends on his pension. You always pay tax in the Netherlands on AOW and government pension. You can only apply for an exemption for non-government benefits.
He will of course have to fill in an M-form (tax form for emigration) in 2018 !!!
According to the law, he does not have to prove that he pays taxes in Thailand, but Heerlen thinks differently... 🙁
I also filed a tax return in Thailand and neatly received a statement costing 200 baht and I was told that if you are over 70 you do not have to pay tax.
over 70 years old and not paying taxes is incorrect. You simply pay tax on your taxable income, but because you have deductions, possibly a significant one if you are over 65, you may not have to pay anything on balance.
I recently received this statement from the Thai tax authorities. Although not the form that the Dutch tax authorities had sent me, I assume that they will not blame the Thai tax authorities for using their own forms. I also saw that they were used for Swiss, Italians, English and Germans, so it makes sense that they use a uniform form for this.
The condition was that I first had to file a declaration in Thailand (for 2017, I did meet the days requirement). No problem, went to the tax office in Korat one morning, without an appointment, could immediately join an employee, was helped by 3 (!) employees at one point, paid directly at the cash register and could immediately go to another office where I received the statement immediately. So, you should try that in the Netherlands. Even if you stand on your head, you won't get to speak to anyone. And here, filed a declaration in half a day, paid and received the statement. Compliments to the Thai tax authorities! I have never encountered such a helpful institution in the Netherlands. I was warned in advance by employees of a law firm that the Thai tax authorities would be corrupt and that I should not file a declaration. Well, big bastard. Must have to do with the fact that their customers who had to deal with the Thai tax authorities were not clear on the bone themselves.
It seems to me that your brother-in-law can only claim an exemption from payroll tax if he is also liable to pay tax in Thailand. And if he already is, file a declaration and pay and ask for the statement. I think you have to file a declaration here before April 1, but they didn't make that a problem in my case either. At most he should pay a small fine I think.
I understand that the Dutch tax authorities would in any case pay back the payroll tax for the current year. But maybe they are just as helpful as their Thai colleagues. I doubt it.
Success with it.
The statement you must have to indicate that you are liable for tax in Thailand and that you have actually paid tax to the Thai tax authorities.
You can only obtain this from a regional tax office.
For me it is on the Chatano road in Chiangmai in Northern Thailand.
For you that will be somewhere else , you can find out via the website of the Thai tax authorities or ask at a local tax office .
The certificate is called Income tax payment certificate or RO 21 and is in English.
Jan Beute.
Dear Herman, if a tax return is only due in Thailand in 2020, your brother-in-law will be subject to tax in the Netherlands this year and next year. In any case about his AOW, until 2020 also about other income such as pension. If there is no tax liability in Thailand in and after 2020, he will continue to pay tax to the Netherlands. If in 2020 he can file a tax return in Thailand and he actually pays tax to the Thai treasury, he will receive sufficient documents/letters/etc with which he can ask the Dutch tax authorities for an exemption on that part of his income that has been allocated to Thailand . To worry about a letter that will not be issued by the Thai tax authorities if you are not / will not be registered is a waste of effort.
It probably depends a bit on how credible you come across to the tax authorities.
Before I emigrated, I already had contact with the tax authorities about emigration how and what, so they already knew me.
In general, I think it is wise to arrange as many things as possible before you emigrate, not just after you have already left.
Because I did not yet have any income from the Netherlands, I requested a statement from the amphur in Thailand that I lived in Thailand to arrange my exemptions.
The tax authorities were then satisfied with that.
I would discuss with Heerlen whether they will be satisfied with this for the time being.
I went to the tax office in Chaiyaphum in April 2016 and met a nice lady (office manager)
who spoke good English explained that I would like to start paying taxes.
After explaining my reasons, she created a tax number for me and helped me fill out the tax return form.
After all the pluses and minuses, a small amount remained.
This of course depends on your income. There are quite a few deductions for a 70-year-old.
After payment, the declaration form was sent to a higher office in Korat and two weeks later I received a RO22 form Certificate of Residence and a RO21 Income tax payment certificate.
I sent these forms together with the applications for tax exemption to Heerlen and 4 weeks later I received the exemption forms. However, the exemption for the ABP and SVB were not honored.
Then the exemptions were sent to the various pension funds and a month later everything was arranged.
You must state an effective date on the exemption forms, which cannot be done retroactively.
You can try to reclaim the overpaid tax via the appropriate forms.
The exemption I have is valid for 5 years.
Succes
i have obtained TIN in Chiang Mai in the past. Indicated at the tax office that I probably have to pay tax in Thailand and therefore wanted a Tax Identification Number. No problem. Had to fill in a few papers and you're done.
As a side note: if you have interest income, for example because you have an interest-bearing account at the bank, tax is withheld from the interest. You can sometimes request this back from the cabinet service. So you need a TIN for that!