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Home » Reader question » Reader question: How can I prevent next of kin from claiming the right of residence?
Reader question: How can I prevent next of kin from claiming the right of residence?
Dear readers,
I have been living in Thailand for 5 years now on the basis of a retirement visa. I'm a little older, but I have a question. I live here with my Thai girlfriend who will soon be 55 years old. The intention is to draw up a usefruct contract next year to give me more certainty that something should happen to her. The house we live in was paid for by me.
Now I recently learned from her that her eldest sister is also registered here at this address, together with another sister, her husband and son. Now I'm afraid that if my girlfriend dies, they will claim the right of residence. Even though I have the right of habitation through my usefruct contract.
My girlfriend says this is impossible. But in case of her death, where can I get the right to say they can't live here? And often there is a fight for owning a house, I want to prevent this. How should I handle this? Are there people with such experience?
Regards,
Ruud
I think you could have arranged this better when building the house. I think you'll be in a lot of trouble if your girlfriend dies
You did not pay for the house, because you are not allowed at all, you gave money to your girlfriend and she built a house with it, she also bought the land. It is forbidden to give money to buy or build a house. Only ordinary money is allowed, what she does with it is up to her, because then you cannot claim anything, you could have an agreement drawn up at the notary that you rent it for 30 years
I think it is true that you can own a house as a foreigner. You cannot own the land on which it stands. Unless that has changed by now. I owned a house (before my divorce) in Thailand. So speak from experience. The problem is of course that if the land is registered with family, they can demand that you disappear. You can tear down your house and take it with you. Which of course didn't happen. Usually it is sold to the landowners for an apparent sum.
If your girlfriend and the authorities allow you a usefructe (authorities can also refuse it!!!), I think from this date you decide who lives or is allowed to live there. Of course, try explaining this to your friend that you are putting her sisters and brother-in-law outside? If you were married without a marriage contract, and built the land and house during your marriage, the community of property rule applied and you were legally entitled to 50% of the immovable property, notwithstanding the land is solely owned by your wife . The fact that you paid for it does not play any role as Leen describes it.
And if you can get a usefruct and you are already of a reasonable age, take 1 before 30 years and not until the end of your life. In Thailand, the possibility would be that you are quickly liquidated by the next of kin who have to inherit. For example, if you die within those 30 years, the usufruct goes to your heirs, so the family has nothing to do with possibly liquidating you. I know this is very crude, but in Thailand you should not be surprised
That doesn't look good, Ruud. Apart from yourself and your partner, no one should be registered in that house. Here we are already in a conflict situation. Even if you have or would have a “Usufruct” contract or have it drawn up. Your partner's family are now officially living there. You can now draw up any contract, but the “family” is not excluded from the right to occupy “your” house by a Usufruct. If you are "left alone" there, you can already imagine that the remaining family can make your life so miserable that you will run away... In short, or you make sure that only you and your partner are listed in " the blue book”, for her, and in a “yellow book” (same as blue but for “farang”), for you. Then conclude a “Usufruct” contract or a lease for 30 years… Do not make a “rental contract”, because “rent” can be canceled. There is also “case law” (where a judge takes into account previously made rulings in similar cases), which never excludes the risk that you will always get the short end of the stick. Not encouraging perhaps, but certainly useful to show some alertness….
A “Usufruct” contract or a “Lease” contract (not the same) must also be included in the title deed (Chanut) at the Land Office. This also gives you some clarity to be able to demonstrate the right of these contracts if, for example, “the land” (with the house on it) were sold.... This is not the case with a rental contract and therefore offers no certainty.
In this case it's pretty clear, Ruud. The “inmates” have to get out… otherwise things COULD go completely wrong.
Usufruct gives you, among other things, the right to exclude anyone from living in the house, even the owner, do not say things that are not correct. A registration in a house book is nothing more than an administrative registration for the municipality and has nothing to do with the actual residence. Just like a registration in a blue or yellow book says nothing about the actual residence but is an address registration, as a foreigner you have no influence on who registers a Thai in the house book and as said, this is separate from the actual habitation and you can always rely on that because you cannot block registration in a house book, but you can prevent actual access with usufruct. You register usufruct at and on the chanoot at the Land Office. Ruud does not have to wait, but would go to the Land Office as soon as possible to arrange it, sometimes they already have the text and documents available for this.
Hallo,
Apparently I'm early, I only read 2 comments, luckily otherwise my story here would take too long. As so often, I see how a story is taken completely out of context here. That is a pity because people write here for a reason, they ask for the opinion of others who may be able to help with a problem. But often there are answers that have nothing to do with the story or the question itself and I regret that. Not only a pity for the quality of this forum but also a pity for the questioner who at the end of the day has had so many different answers that he hasn't gotten anywhere with it. Ruud has not indicated that he has built a house and bought land, no, he writes that he has bought a house. He does not ask whether he may or can afford a house, no, he asks how he can protect his right of residence.
Unfortunately, I can't really give you a suitable answer to that, Ruud, fortunately I don't have to give up on this (yet). What I do think is that everything you have read here over time (rightly or wrongly) makes it clear that Thailand has arranged everything in such a way that ultimately the “farrang” has the least rights! That everything you do must be well thought out and legally sound as much as possible. It's great that you're buying a house (through your girlfriend)! I find it very naive that after the purchase you start thinking about what will happen if your girlfriend dies. The fact that your girlfriend has already registered 4 “strange” people in your house without your knowledge and without your permission speaks volumes in itself. The fact that you did not immediately co-sign when purchasing the house, have your right of residence recorded and have a lease agreement for 99 years included, shows that the "notary" where you went is in any case not willing to give you legal consideration. provided information. Unfortunately. The question now is whether you can get all this legally arranged afterwards in the way that is best for you.
Success with it.
Harry
Indeed Lee,
therefore, as a Farang, you have to sign a document that the money for the purchase does not come from you during the preparation of the Chanote at the land office.
In Thailand it is quite normal for several family members to be registered at the same address,
even if they don't live there and even if they even live in another Province.
A Thai/Thai doesn't have to change his/her address where they stay in Thailand!
I would advise Ruud not to wait for Usufruct to be added to the Chanote. (Act).
He and his girlfriend must go to the land office with the official Chanote and there it can be credited to his name for life or for 30 yrs. Usufruct, you don't need a Notary for that.
The adjustment is written on the back of the Chanote with a corresponding stamp,
normally no costs are charged for this.
I also advise Ruud to have the Chanote copied completely and also to save the copies on a USB stick, you never know that the original deed had to be lost.!
He can therefore ask the office for information about the family members registered at the address
whether he can demand to place their address elsewhere after the death of his wife.
Because he is not married, he can indeed have a lease or rental contract drawn up for 30 years.
best via a notary and have him informed about his rights.!
What happens when his girlfriend dies, does she have children.!?
Can the close relatives sell the property after the death of his girlfriend.!?
In a marriage with community of property (marriage without a contract), you as a foreigner are entitled to 50% of all your spouse's assets.
This inheritance law is equally applied as in Belgium, (whether it is also applied in the Netherlands,
I'm not aware of that), but in his case not married that's a different story.!
According to my knowledge, his girlfriend must draw up a will and state that after her death ALL movable and immovable property will be assigned to him.!!
If he is married and his wife has children from a previous marriage,!
he is entitled to 50% of all assets and the children are each entitled to their share of the other 50% of the total estate. (without an accompanying will, of course)
That is why it is necessary that he is in possession of the rental or lease contract for 30 years and also has the usufruct added to the Chanote.
Real estate cannot be assigned to a farang (unless a condo if the 49/51 rule can apply), but land property cannot.
Yan, that is possible under inheritance law! But there are maximum limits on the size of the plot, on the use (residential or industrial) and there is a maximum ownership period of - I believe - one year. So you have a certain amount of time to look for a buyer.
Finally, after this rather confusing information from "experts", I would advise Ruud to contact a multilingual Thai lawyer.
Very contradictory information indeed. I know that you cannot own land as farang, so I arranged a ususfruct on a piece of land belonging to my girlfriend at the land office. So that's on the chanoot with a stamp and also in the papers they have at the land office. If you lose chanoot, they really know whose name it is on.
I had a house built on it, paid the contract price in portions of 150.000 baht to the contractor during construction and received neat receipts for it in my name.
It is strange that your girlfriend has registered several people there without your permission, I would arrange that usufruct as soon as possible if I were you.
Han says: If you lose chanoot, they really know whose name it is on.
Experienced the chanoot in divorce being taken by the angry farang. Get a note from the police and the lady got a replacement chanoot when she went to sell the plot with the house to my family.
After reading all those responses, the following.
If you have Thai rights by your side, the family and friends of your deceased girlfriend can make your life so miserable in your cozy Thai house.
That you will soon want to move elsewhere.
Jan Beute.
As a foreigner you can own a house, have it built and pay for it.
It is different with the land – foreigners cannot own immovable property (ie land) in eugendom.
You can lease the land, 30 years ect… – rent long term – from your girlfriend/wife.
Your girlfriend can immediately look for a solution for all that is stated in that house book.
Can be from all of them or a document acknowledging to use this house book only as an administrative address.
So you lease the land and have the necessary documents drawn up showing that you are the owner of that house – ie the movable property.
At the same time, you can even decide who in the family will later – when you are gone – inherit the house from you.
(With this you indirectly bring in a kind of protectors for you - after all, those who own the house
later heirs therefore feel 'a little different''.
Addressing a good Thai lawyer for this is a very good step.
Finally - it costs some money - have all the documents translated into your working language or English.
With these steps, you are already a lot more reassured if your girlfriend gives before you do.
grten
Hello Ruud,
I think the advice has already been listed, but the most important thing is to do this in good consultation and together with your girlfriend:
1) find a very good lawyer who understands your situation well and has experience with these types of matters
2) register the usufruct on the title deed. I sincerely hope that the land office will allow this [because by law it is subject to the discretion of the land office]. To reinforce this, it is therefore important that your lawyer has experience with these types of cases
3) have the lawyer draw up a will for your girlfriend with you as first/sole heir to the house as long as you are still alive, so that you have a chance to sell the house within the legal period.
4) Finally, a will can still be revoked/changed without your knowledge. Discuss with the lawyer what mechanisms there are to prevent this.