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Home » Reader question » Reader's question: Declaration of tax liability in the country of residence
Reader's question: Declaration of tax liability in the country of residence
Posted in Reader question
Tags: tax, Declaration of tax liability in the country of residence
Dear readers,
I am trying to get an exemption from payroll tax for my pension benefit. Now I have been to the Tax Office in ChiangRai to have the form 'declaration of tax liability in the country of residence' signed, because without this form your application in Heerlen will not be processed.
To my surprise, I was told by the employee in question that they cannot sign this form. As soon as my pension comes in, I can report again to pay income tax in Thailand.
Despite my explanation that it doesn't work that way, people don't want to sign the form 'declaration of tax liability in the country of residence'.
Does anyone have recent experience with having such a form signed? Preferably in Chiang Rai. Or tips or names (and telephone numbers) of contact persons at a Tax Office, who do understand?
Regards,
Petra
Dear Peter,
The employee of the Thai tax authorities is somewhat right. As a civil servant, would you sign a statement in a language you do not understand and cannot read?
I have exactly the same case going on. I went to the Tax Office in Bangkok this morning and they make a statement (in Thai and English) that I paid tax in Thailand in 2017 (because I work here as an employee)
It takes 14 days before I can collect that statement, but I will then send it to the Netherlands. With one short statement.
It seems to me that people want to check for themselves whether or not the total amount of the pension that you receive is partly covered by Thai tax law. So until they see something to judge they won't agree I'm afraid. I think that at that office you can get an explanation about the amounts that are or are not taxed. With an average pension you don't have to worry.
So you may not have to pay anything, but people want to decide for themselves. So just cooperate and then it should work. Incidentally, a lot has been written about this on this blog and some good advice might already be known. Good luck with your search.
I think it is normal that people do not sign a tax statement here if no tax is paid. That would be forgery!
In March I filed my first tax return in Thailand. Thanks to various deductions, this was only about € 200 over the amount that you bring in in Thailand. Namely 800.000 thb the norm to get a visa here.
After this, a tax statement in English was sent to my home address within 2 weeks.
I have now received a message that my tax exemption has been approved in the Netherlands. This took more than 10 weeks.
dear Petra for info how i did it and was a piece of cake [email protected]
As far as I know, in the Netherlands you have to pay taxes on the AOW. The pensions are tax-free if you are deregistered from the Netherlands. And in Thailand there is no tax on pensions, they think it is not income.
Never had a statement from the Tax office in 10 years and therefore never transferred to Heerlen, yet no tax paid.
The tax treaty between the Netherlands and Thailand is intended to prevent double wage tax being withheld. Many Dutch expats try to achieve the opposite: do not pay in the Netherlands and also not (or just a little) in Thailand. I understand that quite well, but I don't understand that people are aggrieved if it doesn't work (immediately). Guus.W
Your story is not entirely clear.
Are you registered with the Thai tax authorities?
If not, I don't think it's likely that they will sign a form that you pay taxes in Thailand.
If they have registered you, you will have received some paperwork, which you can probably send to the Netherlands.
Somehow I can imagine that they don't register you, because you only provide them with work, but they don't owe you any money.
They are of course obliged to, because you have the obligation to register if you are in Thailand for more than 180 days.
But Thailand has laws, and government agencies that adapt the laws to their own rules.
When I emigrated, I applied for exemptions from taxation in the Netherlands for my pension insurance, and they were issued to me without any problems.
During that time I occasionally had contact with various specialists at the tax authorities, with questions that the man or woman on the phone did not know the answer to.
They call back.
They can probably tell you what the procedure is to follow for that exemption.
It seems to me that in the worst case you can reclaim the tax you paid in the Netherlands when you file your tax return.
By that time, your tax in Thailand will also have been settled and you will have an overview and proof of payment of the tax paid in Thailand.
I always file my tax return in January, then there is enough time for the Netherlands.
My experience is that the tax authorities in Thailand do not sign a foreign form. They have their own English form which has the same purport. But they want you to pay tax in Thailand.
René from Buriram.
Please read the form carefully. There you will find the name and address details of the applicant and his NL social security number.
It says below that the (Thai) tax authorities declare that the data is correct. But also – and now it comes – the Thai tax authorities must declare that “the above income” is correct. Unfortunately, no space has been entered for this on the form!!
It is and remains an idiotic thing. The Dutch tax authorities do not want to believe that you live in Thailand. Read what is stated about living/residence in the Tax Treaty. But those weirdos in The Hague are of the opinion that they can give it their own twist / interpretation.
An official in Heerlen said in a telephone conversation about this aspect that it is not the intention that people in Thailand do not pay tax. That is the exclusive right of the Thai tax authorities to determine whether and, if so, how much tax people pay here. BV Nederland is not about that.
I'm afraid that if things continue like this people in The Hague/Heerlen will say at a certain point: they pay very little there. So we are going to levy BV Nederland again.
I am still curious, what reaction Thai tax authorities / government will be.
Have the same experience in Phuket, registered with the Thai tax authorities as a tax resident, pay tax, then get form RO22 as proof. And it says the same as in the Dutch tax declaration form. People refuse to sign that (foreign) form. My tax consultant in the Netherlands wrote a letter to Heerlen about this 2 months ago, so far no answer!!
Hi Peter,
You can simply apply for a tax identity number even without having already paid the tax. Discussed in detail on this blog some time ago. If you then file and pay a tax return at the end of the year, you will automatically receive a statement about this.
After all, you cannot expect the Thai tax authorities to find out for you and declare that you are a taxable person. Good luck.
The Thai tax authorities can issue a Certificate of Residence RO 22 with which they declare that for any year you are tax resident of Thailand. They only issue this if you have filed a tax return and for that you must be a “Taxable person”. You are if you live in Thailand for more than 180 days. You do not have to wait all year, because you can file a provisional return in August with form PND 90. The relevant certificate is issued by the regional tax office and not by the local one. You will usually receive it after approximately 14 days, but you must request it with your tax return. The local office will then request it for you from the regional office. Thailand must file a tax return for the entire year before 1 April using form PND 91. What is taxed in Thailand and what is taxed in the Netherlands is stated in the tax treaty between these countries. That you do not have to pay tax in Thailand on pensions from the private sector is also a persistent myth on this blog.
In my opinion, you only have a financing problem, because if you deregister from the Netherlands you normally become a non-resident taxpayer. You can see the withheld tax on your Dutch tax return. reclaim national insurance premiums and ZVW premiums. For tax purposes, of course, only on the income allocated to Thailand.
Hi Peter,
I live in chiang rai. I have to do the same as you.
Now I know how to do it. The Tax Office is CR, is not authorized to do this. You have to go to the Regional Office in Chiang Mai (Chiang Main Salakan).
You must bring a copy of your bank book so that people can see what amount is transferred each month. In addition, you need a residence certificate from the Immigration, copy of passport (all pages). You take this with you to Salakan Chiang Mai (Finance Department).
They will NOT sign the form of our NL tax authorities. They have a similar form (in English), which they fill in. You also have to wait 14 days. They will then send it to you.
Actually, you can also take all copies to the CR Tax Office and they will send it to Chiang Mai for you.
A problem with our NL form is that it roughly states that we are resident in Thailand. That is a statement that no Thai office will sign, because it is simply not correct. Foreigners in Thailand are NEVER Resident, they are always seen as people who are here temporarily (max 1 year). Of course you can always submit an extension request. NL assumes that we have emigrated, which according to the Thai government is not the case at all, which is why we always get a NON-IMM visa, which means NO Immigrant!!
But anyways, good luck
MVG
John
John, the Netherlands does NOT think that you have emigrated to Thailand as a starting point. In the Netherlands it is also stated that you are (temporarily) staying here (because you have an annual visa) but do not live there. This is precisely the reason Heerlen is currently trying to put forward for not granting an exemption.
That is exactly what I meant in my earlier response by giving a very strange explanation to the NL-TH Tax Treaty. It is clearly stated there that someone who has his housing and economic life in TH also lives or stays there.
Heerlen just wants to find out in a devious way whether and how much tax is paid in TH. And that is precisely something that is none of their business!!
If you stay in Thailand more than 180 days a year, you are a tax resident, you can then obtain a TIN (tax identification number). With this number you can obtain the following form. Certificate of status taxable person: RO24
In the following text, this is the certificate that (full name and address) is registered as a taxable person under the following tax identification number.
This certificate is issued upon the request of the above taxpayer for whichever legal purpose only.
This does not mean that you also have to make a declaration, an income of less than 100000 thb per year does not have to be declared.
For those who still insist that there is no tax to pay on pensions in Thailand. Take a look at the English version of the Thai tax law, which states that pension is taxable and that failure to file a tax return is punishable.