Dear readers,
From the relationship with my Thai wife (not officially married) twin daughters were born in Thailand itself. In the meantime I have ensured that they now have a Dutch passport with my family name on the passport.
Since they were born in Thailand, they do not have a TM 6 departure card. The first question is, if I want to take the twins to the Netherlands, how can I get a departure card for them?
From various sides I hear that even the possession of the Dutch nationality and departure card for the Thai immigration service is not enough to bring the twins to the Netherlands.
This in connection with possible human smuggling; should a declaration of no objection from the Thai mother be added (and with whom)?
A second consideration is to purchase a Thai passport for the twins and to travel to the Netherlands with this passport. But doesn't it make me extra suspicious if I want to take young children abroad with a Thai passport, albeit with my last name, as "Falang"?
Who can give me tips/advice in this matter so that I can board the plane without any problems with passport control and/or immigration service in Bangkok?
Thanks in advance for the cooperation!
Greeting.
Bernhard
No problem they get TM card, but what do you have to hide? ;nothing; then have a good trip!
I myself fly in March with my daughter and mom just goes to the airport if there are any questions!
Declaration of your Thai ; what is the problem here, this is not a problem, or if you have something to hold back, ask your question differently!!
@Piet; Dear Piet, I have nothing to hide in this, but what matters to me is that I can simply take the twins with me (with her consent) WITHOUT mommy being able to explain everything.
pete,
How will your wife explain this to immigration? It never gets that far.
And what if questions are asked when you leave the Netherlands? Skype with your wife?
A person traveling alone with a minor must always carry a written statement with the consent of the other parent. Normally this must also be provided with an official stamp. If it is not your own child, then both parents or guardian of this child must sign this.
Just walking with you to the airport is not enough and otherwise you will go wrong there.
Bernard,
In addition. Have a look here.
Traveling outside Thailand with a child
An example of such a “letter of consent to travel abroad” that was drawn up at the local Amphur.
Must be adapted to your situation, of course, but that is what they do at Amphur.
http://www.thailawonline.com/en/thai-laws/free-contracts-and-documents/434-letter-of-consent-to-travel-abroad.html
Also inquire with your Embassy because the above form will probably only be available in Thai.
They may have a form in English/Dutch, so that there are no problems when you leave the Netherlands.
It is best to have too much form with you rather than too little.
Success.
@RonnyLatPhrao; this is also my experience when it comes to bureaucratic procedures, better one document too many than too few. This became apparent when the twins applied for a Dutch passport.
Have downloaded the example of the letter of consent and can now start my homework to adapt it to my individual situation, and will also check with the Dutch Embassy whether they have a (standard) form for these cases.
Once again, I am grateful for your help and assistance in this matter, duly acknowledged!
Bernhard
@RonnyLatPhrao; clear, concise and fact-based summary and explanation!
All the responses have now made it clear to me that it is not just about (nationality) passport and/or document recognition of paternity; but that with minor children traveling along, both in Thailand and in the Netherlands, it is crucial that there is a declaration of consent from the other parent.
Thanks for your concise addition!
First of all, get them a Thai passport, otherwise they can only return to Thailand with a visa. Use NL and Thai passport on departure in BKK, NL passport on arrival in AMS.
You get TM6 departure card at the airport of the airline.
A document in English from the mother/guardian stating that you the father can travel with them.
If you are listed as the father on the birth certificate, have this translated into English and take it with you as additional proof for immigration.
@eddy; hadn't realized that when the twins return to Thailand, the visa regulations also apply for long-term stays here and only in possession of a Dutch passport. That is why it is useful to apply for Thai passports!
I am listed as father on a Thai birth certificate, I also have a sworn translation of this. But have heard that even if you are a natural father, this does NOT give you the same legal rights.
Incidentally, my wife has no problem with me sometimes wanting to take the children to the Netherlands. Personally, I commute between the Netherlands and Thailand every year, usually spending 6 to 7 months in Thailand.
However, I don't want bureaucratic "hassle" or that my wife has to go to the immigration office every time to explain everything over and over again.
We will arrange the Thai passports, thanks for the extra info!
Yes, that is an interesting case. Why don't you inquire at the immigration police yourself? Those are the experts after all. It seems to me that purchasing Thai passports for the children is something you should do anyway. That only provides more clarity and you can offer them both at any time so that you can fly undisturbed. Also those passports with your surname, of course. I assume that the children have been recognized by you in Thailand and that you have received recognition papers from the Thai authority showing that you are the father. Together with a permission form from the mother of your children, it should still be possible to travel.
@Jacques; I am now convinced by you and other responders that applying for Thai passports also offers many advantages, it is indeed important to check that the same family surname is used as in a Dutch passport.
I have the acknowledgment papers from the local Amphur that I am the father.
The key question that you also raise yourself is: IN ADDITION to the passport and recognition certificate, is the mother's consent form also required?
In fact, an official Dutch document is ALSO required for this: “permission to travel abroad with a minor” which can be downloaded from the website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Otherwise you can't take the kids back to Thailand!
In addition, a copy of the mother's passport is required, signed, and a letter of consent from the mother, preferably in Thai and English. And, of course, the deed of recognition (translated!).
By the way, if you only travel on the Dutch passport: there are no consequences for overstaying the visa up to the age of 15. See the “new overstay rules” that were issued in Thailand this January.
defence.nl/english/topics/travel-documents/Contents/traveling-with-children
@kjay; downloaded the document and added it to the "file", in any case, before my departure, arrange the necessary data and signatures here in Thailand.
The website explains in more detail what possible checks may entail.
The folder is now nicely filled and I think the image is almost complete, thanks for your contribution!
Bernhard
@Jasper; I indeed did not expect that if I stay in the Netherlands with my daughters with a Dutch passport and my family surname, I would ALSO need a permission form for the return journey. Initially only had the exit procedures from Thailand in mind...
Thank you for the information about all other records and documents that must also be added to the “file”, enough homework to do now!
The fact that the twins cannot have an overstay until the age of 15 is at least a bright spot!
Yours faithfully,
Bernhard
How old/young are your daughters?
Can they answer questions from customs themselves?
Do they speak Thai and/or Dutch?
Do they look like Dutch or more like Thai?
As far as I know the mother has to sign. Are you on good terms with the mother? Any chance she'll sign?
If not, then this:
You can always indicate that you have lost that TM6 card.
I think the point is that those children have not booked an outward journey.
You only fly back with them.
That could be suspicious.
If you can arrange something for that, I would use their Dutch passport.
I don't think the name of the mother is in the Dutch passport of the children.
If you don't dare, cross the border into Malaysia by train and fly from Kuala Lumpur to the Netherlands.
If you cross the border by train, as a Dutch citizen you do not need to bring a plane ticket or visa.
Or am I missing something?
@Jos; the twins are almost 2 years old, so speaking or understanding questions is not yet possible.
I am on good terms with the mother, who has no objection to me commuting back and forth between Thailand and the Netherlands with the children. Am in possession of a certificate of acknowledgment from the local Amphur that I am the biological father.
The question is whether this gives me sufficient rights to take the Kids to the Netherlands, especially because I only fly back with them, and as you yourself indicate, this can be seen as suspicious, whereby additional "evidence" would be requested.
It is true that the twins' Dutch passport does not mention the mother's name.
So probably need an extra permission form from the mother, from an official body that I can't cough up so quickly now.
Thank you for the alternative routes that allow you to bypass bureaucratic barriers!!
Dear Bernhard, I think written permission from the mother is necessary. Seems very right to me too. Taking children to a country other than their country of birth against the will of the mother and without a court ruling is in any case a crime in the Netherlands.
@GuusW; Summarizing all responses, I think your statement contains the essence; my wife has no objections to me occasionally commuting with the twins from Thailand to the Netherlands and vice versa, but that has not been officially recorded in a statement or form. As already indicated in other responses, I have been recognized as the biological father by the local Amphur, and I have an official copy of this, the explicit permission of the mother to bring the daughters abroad (to which she would cooperate without further ado) is missing.
The question then arises whether you should have a self-made statement legalized by a Thai notary, or whether a Thai government agency is the best way to do this.
@Piet; Dear Piet, I have nothing to hide in this, but what matters to me is that I can simply take the twins with me (with her consent) WITHOUT mommy being able to explain everything.