Welcome to Thailandblog.nl
With 275.000 visits per month, Thailandblog is the largest Thailand community in the Netherlands and Belgium.
Sign up for our free e-mail newsletter and stay informed!
Newsletter
Language setting
Rate Thai Baht
Sponsor
Latest comments
- Johnny B.G: “I usually give a decent tip at the end to compensate.” This is what it's all about, right? Many Thais are stingy
- Nicky: The easiest way is through English. Using Dutch you usually get complete chaos,
- GeertP: Dear Frans Do you want to get married for the law or for Buddha? The latter has no consequences for your benefit provided you are not at the same time
- Freddy: Hello, I have never completed my tax return with the intention that the tax authorities will not see it... Never received a question in all these years, AI
- Johnny B.G: Could it also have something to do with the fact that 90 days is quite long? A 2-week stay request makes everything so much easier
- Sacri: Machine translations almost never work very well for unique tonal languages such as Thai or Chinese. Thais also has a complex
- walter: I still have the concern that many people just mess around (sorry for the expression used) and then go against the proverb
- Henk: For example, a large study in the leading medical journal The Lancet shows that worldwide more m
- Werner: Strange indeed. Alarm bells are going off everywhere and you don't notice any difference from before. My Thai wife already has me
- Eric Kuypers: Walter, your son will first have to obtain a work permit and the employer will apply for this. Does that go together with the word '
- Eric Kuypers: Frans, assuming that you now have the single state pension and a pension, things will certainly change upon marriage. Your AOW pension
- Eli: Everything has consequences. Take a look at the SVB website or place a search on this site. When you get married and you
- John: I don't think people with (small) children are allowed on the exit seats. The intention is that these people
- Aad: April is always very warm in Thailand, isn't it? Notice no difference from previous years And that people die from the
- Chris: There is also such a thing as mismanagement. I rented a 2-room apartment in Bangkok for 4.000 Baht per month (excl. water and electricity).
Sponsor
Bangkok again
Menu
Arrivals Bangkok Airport
DOSSIERS
Learning objectives and topics
- Background
- Activities
- Advertorial
- Diary
- Tax question
- Belgium question
- Sights
- Bizarre
- Buddhism
- Book reviews
- Column
- Corona crisis
- The Culture
- Diary
- Dating
- The week of
- Dossier
- To dive
- Economy
- A day in the life of…..
- Islands
- Food and drink
- Events and festivals
- Balloon Festival
- Bo Sang Umbrella Festival
- Buffalo races
- Chiang Mai Flower Festival
- Chinese New Year
- Full Moon Party
- Christmas
- Lotus Festival – Rub Bua
- Loy Krathong
- Naga Fireball Festival
- New Years Eve celebration
- Phi ta khon
- Phuket Vegetarian Festival
- Rocket festival – Bun Bang Fai
- Songkran – Thai New Year
- Fireworks Festival Pattaya
- Expats and retirees
- state pension
- Car insurance
- Banking
- Tax in the Netherlands
- Thailand tax
- Belgian Embassy
- Belgian tax authorities
- Proof of life
- DigiD
- emigrate
- To rent a house
- Buy a house
- In memoriam
- Income statement
- King's day
- Cost of living
- Dutch embassy
- Dutch government
- Dutch Association
- News
- Passing away
- Passport
- Retirement
- Drivers license
- Distributions
- Elections
- Insurance in general
- Visa
- work
- Hospital
- Health insurance
- Flora and fauna
- Photo of the week
- Gadgets
- Money and finance
- History
- Health
- Charities
- Hotels
- Looking at houses
- Isaan
- Khan Peter
- Koh Mook
- King Bhumibol
- Living in Thailand
- Reader Submission
- Reader call
- Reader tips
- Reader question
- Society
- marketplace
- Medical tourism
- Environment
- Nightlife
- News from the Netherlands and Belgium
- News from Thailand
- Entrepreneurs and companies
- Education
- Research
- Discover Thailand
- Opinions
- Remarkable
- Calls
- Floods 2011
- Floods 2012
- Floods 2013
- Floods 2014
- Winter prices
- Politics
- Poll
- Travel stories
- Travel
- Organizations
- Shopping
- Social media
- Spa & wellness
- Sport
- Cities
- Position of the week
- The beach
- Language
- For sale
- TEV procedure
- Thailand in general
- Thailand with children
- thai tips
- Thai massage
- Tourism
- Going out
- Currency – Thai Baht
- From the editors
- Real estate law; and
- Traffic and transport
- Visa Short Stay
- Long stay visa
- Visa question
- Flight tickets
- Question of the week
- Weather and climate
Sponsor
Disclaimer translations
Thailandblog uses machine translations in multiple languages. Use of translated information is at your own risk. We are not responsible for errors in translations.
Read our full here disclaimer.
Royalty
© Copyright Thailandblog 2024. All rights reserved. Unless stated otherwise, all rights to information (text, image, sound, video, etc.) that you find on this site rest with Thailandblog.nl and its authors (bloggers).
Whole or partial takeover, placement on other sites, reproduction in any other way and/or commercial use of this information is not permitted, unless express written permission has been granted by Thailandblog.
Linking and referring to the pages on this website is permitted.
Home » Reader question » Thailand question: Getting old in Thailand or in the Netherlands?
Dear readers,
I read this article in the NRC and was making a comparison with the situation here in Thailand.
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2023/03/24/zorgredacteur-jeroen-wester-hielp-zijn-oom-in-zijn-zoektocht-naar-passende-zorg-en-verdwaalde-a4160382
I have 2 people in my family here in Thailand who have dementia, both are cared for by their children and by hired people and that is going perfectly as far as I can judge.
In the Netherlands, healthcare has become a revenue model in which every patient has to be milked.
I sometimes speak to farang who are worried about getting older and what to do if you get dementia, back to your homeland?
I don't know how things are arranged in Belgium, but I personally think I'm better off in Thailand in such a situation. What do you think about this?
Regards,
GeertP
Editors: Do you have a question for the readers of Thailandblog? Use it contact form..
Sometimes I also think about what I'm going to do in my old age.
Everything really depends on your personal family situation.
As you write yourself, the people you know are helped by their children and hired people.
And that will probably also be my final phase of life in Thailand.
I have a very good relationship with my children and I am a valued member of our small community.
Being 50+, I have been going to the local hospital every 3 months for routine blood test and sometimes to the temple once in a while. I already know quite well how the Thai health care system works and I am already a member of it.
As long as my children stay in Thailand, they will probably take care of me and/or my wife in my old age. There is also a private hospitalization insurance which can cover the initial costs.
Taking care of me has to be "minimal", no day job or extra burden for the children.
I also prefer a shorter active life than living a few years longer without the pleasures of life.
Without the joys of life, the last few years will probably become more looking forward to the end than enjoying each day.
Will the care become a real day job or will the costs become enormous, I give myself 2 options:
– return to Europe and use social security. (But not to spend my last years in a hospital bed or somewhere in a nursing home without family or friends.)
– active or passive euthanasia.
Specifically for dementia.
Dementia is the doomsday scenario for me. I find mental decline much worse than the loss of bodily functions. The diagnosis of dementia will probably already be a trigger for me to think about euthanasia. I have already assured my wife and children several times, I lose my mental faculties may you put an end to it.
“may you put an end to it”:
a) they can, given the Buddhist beliefs
b) are they legally allowed to do so?
For the Buddhist belief:
You have to make a difference between an ordinary person who follows Buddha's teachings in daily life (putujana) and a person who follows the eightfold path with the ultimate goal of not fearing death, with the ultimate goal of attaining Nirvana (sekha).
Euthanasia is not allowed for a Sekha. They have to accept suffering and use it to become "better" in order to attain nirvana.
An ordinary person will use Buddhism to find balance in a happy life.
If you then do not strive to reach Nirvana, you do not have to suffer unnecessarily and euthanasia is allowed in case of unbearable suffering.
Legally seen:
– Active euthanasia is not
– Passive euthanasia is a gray zone and is widely used in Thailand. (Stopping treatment, not carrying out a treatment, administering too much morphine, …)
I have commented many times that you can explain it very well.
Dementia is not a burden for the person in question because they do not realize it. It is distressing for the immediate family.
And euthanasia in Thailand, forget that, that has been discussed here on the blog many times. So that's talk to the often.
My Thai wife will take care of me, even if things are not going well. And as I read below: using me as an ATM is no problem, they can have my money, that's why we got married.
Becoming a member of the Thai health care, please further explanation, sounds strange to me.
As I know you cannot claim under the Thai healthcare system.
Even though you have yellow house booklets pink Thai ID etc .
Jan Beute.
GeertP, no two people grow old or demented or needy in the same way. So your question can't be answered properly because you don't indicate how you think/hope to grow old. Do you 'just' get dementia or do you also have other ailments? Pain from wear and tear? Need surgeries? Cancer? Remember that as an elderly person you cannot find a cheap health insurance policy in Thailand, especially with existing ailments.
The NL health care system, which you accuse of 'milking', has a tailor-made solution for everyone and that costs money as regulated in the laws. You can already look up what you are going to pay on the site of Het CAK and partly on the basis of this you can make a decision about the place where you want to grow old.
And if you finally have a place in Thailand, then that home can just be closed tomorrow… 'Find it out, farang GeertP…' That will not happen to you in NL.
I know that people in Germany are fleeing the local system and looking for (and getting) a place in Hungary where the costs are lower. That will now also be the case in Thailand, but will it remain so and is there government supervision on the spending of those pennies? And furthermore, don't tell me that the word 'milking' has never been mentioned when people talk about Thailand and the 'fair' price for a farang…
Finally something from history. Years ago, family had placed an elderly lady in a home in the Chiang Mai region. Her income was enough to pay for that home, but there is also such a thing as Immigration who first wanted to see that money in a Thai bank and therefore refused a visa to the lady. Madam was transferred to the Philippines. Extremely annoying obstinate behavior of an official, but you also have to take that aspect into account when it comes to Thailand.
What I do? I'm well on my way at 76. I'm getting old in the EU. Dementia or not.
Thailand is definitely worth considering.
Comment from a, I thought a professor, in NL:
in the future, a single person will be a pariah for health care in NL.
Not a comforting thought.
Healthcare is becoming unaffordable in NL, people assume help from informal carers, staying at home (too) long, old people's homes closed, waiting lists at nursing homes. A lot of paperwork, many counters and different appointments for the same problem, the clock rules with professional help (quick, quick).
In addition, there are some other factors for country choice: the cost of living; the climate: many gray skies in the Netherlands, the sun is friendlier and saves on the gas bill.
All this may be a reason to consider an end of life in Thailand, where, in my opinion, there is also a little more respect for the elderly. Much depends on the personal situation: single, married, children, family, friends, finances.
By the way: it is better to put a wish regarding active or passive euthanasia in writing, signed and dated. I think there are examples of such documents on the internet.
Give an original thereof to the doctor. The doctor has of course indicated his willingness to help a patient at the end of life, because not every doctor is willing.
And if you do visit that willing doctor later, then actively indicate that you are still sticking to the previously described starting point or that changes have occurred. So that the doctor is also aware of the current situation.
The link from the NRC referred to argues for good care in the Netherlands for those who need it. The uncle in the article was well cared for at home by a regular caregiver and later in the home he was also happy. The problem described in the NRC is not about the care itself, but about the many hurdles encountered in financing aid workers and carers, permission to request help and all official mills and sources from which it must be paid. Complicated because fraud also has to be prevented, which unfortunately happened and that results in a lot of writing, asking permission, having to contact the right authorities and more.
Exactly Ger-Korat and it only gets worse.
There is a gigantic problem in the Netherlands, namely a surplus of HBO students who have completed some fun education and who then of course have to have a matching job, whether they add something or not.
In the past, if you had HBS you could do something, in my work I came across HBOers who thought that Nelson Mandela was the striker of Liverpool.
Unfortunately, this group of bullshit jobs is already so big that it is very difficult to end it, they are everywhere.
Dear Berry
It is something to think carefully about. Of course everyone has their own choice and opinion.
I myself have been working in care for 40 years and I can tell you that it is regrettable these days. So those who have an imagination that they receive customized care are terribly mistaken.
It's all down to institutions that earn a lot of money by taking on care that they cannot properly provide themselves. There is a good chance that you will be placed in a place where you do not belong at all. They need to get rid of you somewhere regardless of the indication. And nobody says anything about this.
The care becomes more expensive yesterday on TV because the care providers demand the appreciation. And rightly so, because it is the directors and managers who collect the large sums of money. The health insurers are in charge, you can pay the price, the idea that everything is well organized here?
Think about that yourself.
Specific
If you know that you could arrange good care with your assets there, that is of course fine. Currently also working in a place where residents and family have to find out for themselves where they can be accommodated, because there would be demolition plans while they have a hidden agenda with other plans. So it is not only in Thailand but also in the Netherlands nowadays
When in doubt, I would say come back and see what happens.'
Succes
Look Berry,
I like this sentence.
“I also prefer a shorter active life than living a few years longer without the pleasures of life”.
Yep, if there is no quality of life anymore, it makes little sense.
Is (also) my opinion..
MVG
Pieter
My wife is already suffering from dementia, in a closed ward of a care institution in NL, at the expense of the Long-Term Health Insurance Act. I have nothing to comment on. So.."milking out" I don't like it.
Given quite a few relationships in Thailand, seen business there since 1995, with the remark from them: "come to TH if your wife is no longer actively present, 4 months here is cheaper than 4 months in NL with the current energy bill" I still have large question marks.
I know that in NL the care is well organized, and in TH it depends on the kindness of your relations, acquaintances and friends, what they say now and do later. Not to mention civil servant behavior.
I shudder at the step.
The article in the NRC by Jeroen Wester is about the bureaucratic red tape organized by the government to keep track of every euro. As described in the article, not only because of the government's mistrust of its citizens. But in the end, the main character is happy with his place in a nursing home. So these are 2 different things: the organization of the care, and the experience of the care. In Thailand, there is virtually no organization of healthcare. But if you have a loving younger wife and in-laws, you are in fortunate circumstances. Make sure that the requirements of Immigration are also met, as @Erik recalls.
Are you alone or are both spouses struggling, it immediately becomes a different story. Returning to the Netherlands is not that easy, because you can't just take your partner with you. And where do you want to live and organize your care? In Thailand it is much easier to hire someone.
Euthanasia at the end of your life? @Berry talks about it way too easily. Euthanasia is not allowed in Thailand and he places the responsibility for it with his immediate family. “You can put an end to it”, sounds tough but is not neatly formulated. How humanly difficult and legally complicated that is, the discussion in the Netherlands some time ago around the Cooperative Last Will and Means X proves. And when you lose your mental faculties, it is not given to any family member to choose a moment when that "euthanasia" should take place. Because what should it look like then? A plastic bag?
In my opinion it is much easier to organize care in Thailand, but you should discuss and tackle that in time. I have clear agreements with my wife about this, even if she becomes ill or infirm and I stay on my feet better when I am old and stiff. Plus that all preconditions, both financial and legal (fixed account, savings account, non-o retirement, will, chanoot-usefruct) are met. And very important: the in-laws know about it and help has been discussed back and forth.
You can't just say whether you are better off in Thailand. it all depends on one's situation. Sometimes it is better to turn back. But stay in Thailand or return to the Netherlands: don't let that depend on a newspaper article.
Just make sure you can grow old in nl. I've already experienced enough how the government and judiciary view farang. In the event of a (staged) traffic accident, it will be mandatory to pay a fairly large e to the so-called (stage) victim (15 years old without a driver's license or helmet).
It is essential to be cared for in Thaland (especially with dementia) that you have a reliable person who arranges the financial affairs and care properly. American, somewhere in Isaan, demented as a door, only got enough food to stay alive so that Thai family could continue to use him as an ATM.
When friends found out, they brought him back to the USA.
Exactly Keith. And what happened in the USA … they put him away in a nursing home and nobody looked at him anymore.
And all his money, he lost it anyway for the payment of all costs.
At least here in Thailand he was still with his family, in the USA he died lonely and alone.
Right Louise,
What is better lonely in the USA or in Thailand with relatives who provide just enough food and leave it to your own devices? Aren't you lonely then?
When the money runs out what then?
The choice is different for each case, but the money is just as good gone, whichever way.,