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Home » Reader question » Reader question: Probing and piling in Isaan
Reader question: Probing and piling in Isaan
Dear readers,
Who can tell me how people in Thailand determine the depth of piles. We call this probing in the Netherlands. We then measure the depth of soil layers and look for the thicker sand layer there. This then determines the length of the piles.
We want to build minimalist with a flat roof. That means three layers of concrete and cavity walls. This next to the Mekhong. That gives a considerable weight load. We want to be sure. (We understand that costs money).
My wife has found companies that make and sell concrete piles, but no companies that pile and measure. Who knows companies or has good experiences?
Regards,
Hans G
BKK stands for the most part on piles, so there must be enough companies to be found
I got that info from a Geologist who used to teach at the Unief in BKK but I haven't had any contact with that man for years…
There are enough companies that carry out pile driving, but probing in the isaan?
They use experiences from each project.
With me that was from experience around 6 meters and that was quite right.
First a test pile length correct and delivery of the piles in the afternoon as agreed.
Isaan style without probing, but with an appointment via the hei company.
Because my house stands on piles, I had 22 piles driven… take marking posts, there is a logo in the concrete. The contractor probably knows a pile driver. Keep in mind that one pile almost disappears and the next only goes a meter into the ground. Good luck.
There are "headhunters" for that, who correct the heights = make the same height.
I don't know what those craftsmen are called in Thai!
A good contractor will know what to do with it.
Then a baboon can also “speed heads”, but… are those piles driven deep enough in a strong (and thick enough) substrate that the weight, which is built on them, can be carried? And preferably not for the coming months, but a little bit longer?
Because THAT is what the CPT work is for!
Once upon a time there was a video on Thailandblog: 3 Thais on a side post on one side and 3 Thais on the other side. Jump on the carrier to get that pole into the muddy ground. Nice “pile driving”, but has NOTHING to do with a supporting structure. That is why almost every Thai building is barking from the cracks.
Probing = measuring resistance to pressure load in Thailand ? I think you have to confess to foreign engineering and construction companies.
https://www.thailandblog.nl/opmerkelijk/thaise-bouwtechniek-video/
In NL, the municipal Building and Housing Inspectorate requires a CPT report and a piling plan (if necessary). In Houten, poles of 18 mtr slid into the mud on one side and after 13 mtr stuck on the other side. Turned out to be an old current channel, so .. probing report declared false..
In the Netherlands and the surrounding area, until the 50s, foundations were only built on a brick wall, about 80 cm into the ground against frost, instead of on a reinforced concrete strip or slab. Brick can emphatically NOT withstand vibrations or excessive shear loads. Just ask the Groningen people.
In Soi 13 Ram Intra, a Thai thought to build a floor without proper construction. It went well for years, until a big truck came by and the place collapsed. All crushed between the concrete floors.
Well, some have to study for 4 years at an HTS or TH engineering and others have it from birth…
Of course, a tent built on mud does not need to be founded. But that concrete slab above my head…
I think hey do so. Just the prefsb. ram the piles into the ground until they can go no further and then cut the heads (which the piles are too long) (cut off at the correct height for the foundation). Ben
If your contractor/structural engineer does not know a pile-driving or drilling company, look for a new contractor right away!
https://www.livios.be/nl/bouwinformatie/ruwbouw/voorbereidende-werken/grondsondering-must-voor-elke-nieuwbouw/
http://www.eigenbouw.be/wat-is-een-grondsondering-en-waarom-heb-je-het-nodig/
http://www.hebbes.be/artikel/elke-nieuwbouw-begint-met-een-grondsondering
http://www.inspirerend-wonen.be/bouwen/sleutel-op-de-deur/grondsondering-onderzoek-prijs.html
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sondering_(grondmechanica)
Utilization of Cone Penetration Test to Evaluate … – Scholars' Mine
https://scholarsmine.mst.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3434&context=icrageesd
Utilization of Cone Penetration Test to Evaluate Liquefaction. Potential of Soils. Teparaksa Wanchai. Department of Civil Engineering, Faculty of Engineering,. Chulalongkorn University, Bangkok 10330, Thailand. SYNOPSIS: A new practical method for evaluation of soil liquefaction by using the COne Penetration Test (CPT)…
Unfortunately, I can't find any address.
https://www.thailandblog.nl/dagboek/jacques-koppert-bouw-huis/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqxUmi-8qYc
Also interested, because we want to build something near Bangkok. I have yet to meet the first Thai who knows anything about static calculations.
A few years ago I started, here on the blog, a series about building and renovating in Thailand. It has remained with the first article, I have stored the follow-up articles somewhere in my “archives” and they will remain there. The first article was just about the “soil study”. I was then, by the "specialists" builders of the blog, verging on being ridiculed. According to them, this was completely unnecessary because they had already built and sold 10 houses without any prior ground study and all houses were still standing after a few. Some even came up with formulas copied from the internet, which were then still incompletely copied, to prove their “knowledge”…. That after a few years cracks appeared everywhere, doors started to grind and leaks appeared in the water pipes, they thought it was normal and they preferred to keep silent about that….it was sold anyway….
There are plenty of companies in Thailand that can carry out these studies, but usually, for ordinary housing, this is not done. We just work on "experience" It stayed there, so it will stay here too is the motto. Piles are then usually driven into the ground until they can go no deeper or, in the worst case, until they are no longer.
For my house they used a 3-leg with a winch. Hollow steel pipe with a diameter of 90 cm. is hoisted up, and then in free fall. Add a little water so that the soil sticks to the pipe. Continue as long as until they are on hard ground, iron in it and concrete, and then the next one. Made 28 holes for the foundation. Have also seen this technique in Pattaya for building a large hotel. Cheaper than lifting.
Wouldn't it be better to dig a well with an excavator? Do wonder: a pipe with a diameter of 90 cm how high it must fall for the impact to be large enough to penetrate even a few cm into the ground, or it must be even more than in "blubber" soil …..and then scoop out the soil…. yes, that also works with a soup spoon, but it takes a little longer….
In valley areas and in the Thai lowlands, the hard layer is often at a great depth. For example, in the BKK region sometimes up to 80 meters. It is technically impossible to drive piles that deep, as they will bend and buckle in the soft muck. Bore piles ditto.
The piles are then driven with adhesive force. Probing and measuring resistance is then certainly required because not only downward forces can then be exerted on the pile (subsidence) but also upward forces due to expansion of the underlying soil layers.
It is not clear from the question where and how exactly it is on the Mekong where the questioner wants to build.
Thanks to friend Google, a lot of information about Thai geology can be found on the internet.
http://www.mapofthailand.org/geography-map/geological-map-of-thailand/
If the building plans are not located in alluvial areas (river valleys or lowlands), attention to earthquake-resistant construction seems advisable, all the more so it appears to be a top-heavy concrete construction. Matters such as constant composition of the concrete, nature and quality of the reinforcement, crossings in columns and beams, carefulness of the braiding, vibration of the concrete, control of the curing process, overlaps and upper reinforcements when using precast slabs, etc…
All matters that require extra attention because many traditional contractors in Thailand often deal with this rather “smoothly”, say nonchalantly.
Mark, the location is Bueng Kan.
Thanks everyone for the responses.
My question on Thailandblog was done precisely because I couldn't find any info.
Perhaps it would be better to have a well drilled first and then see at what depth sand comes up?
If you look at the skyline of the large(r) cities, you immediately know that there are people in the Thai construction company who know how to carry out these kinds of jobs. But that is certainly not the average contractor in rural Thailand.
For an extraordinary construction, it seems appropriate to call on a solid and experienced engineering office for design, advice and guidance. One that also knows the local situation and market.
Costs something, but then you also have something.
http://www.sgs.com I see on the internet…!
Inquire (have?) at the land office (com tee din) can also provide useful information.
Often there are people with knowledge and experience.
Digging a well? In this case for yourself, not for someone else… LOL 🙂